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bespangled
27-05-18, 10:40 PM
Every Argument About “Buffy” On The Internet, From 1998 Until Now


Joss Whedon: Inventer Of Feminism Or Literal Hitler?



Joss Whedon invented feminism. Before Joss Whedon, every female character on television was crushed to death under the weight of her male co-stars’ heavier paychecks in the second-season finale.
Every female character Joss Whedon ever wrote was forcibly impregnated by a demon and brutally murdered, because Joss Whedon hates lesbians.
But Warren And The Trio Were –
EVERYONE GETS THAT WARREN AND THE TRIO REPRESENTED THE THREAT OF NON-SUPERNATURAL MISOGYNY, YOU DON’T GET CREDIT FOR PICKING UP ON THAT


Joss Whedon Doesn’t Understand What Bisexuality Is

Willow Identifies As Gay And You Are Robbing Her Of Self-Determination Because She Doesn’t Have A “Gold Star”
I’d Feel More Comfortable With Willow’s Lesbianism If It Weren’t Sometimes Equated With Drug Addiction, Literal Vampirism, And Megalomania
But She Was Clearly In Love With Oz
Who Are You To Say What Love Is
Dark Willow Was Pretty Hot, Though
Yeah, Dark Willow Was Super Hot
I’d Watch Dark Willow And Doppelgangland-Era Willow Hook Up If It Weren’t A Patriarchal Fantasy



Spuffy Is Problematic


Bangel Is A Child’s Delusion Of What Love Is
Spuffy Is Literally Assault
Okay But He Felt Really Bad About It And Didn’t Have A Soul



Waif-Fu And Thermodynamics: You Can’t Violate The Law Of Conservation Of Momentum

Season Six Felt Like Watching My Friends Get Murdered In Slow Motion Right In Front Of Me


It Was Worth It For Once More, With Feeling, Though
No, It Wasn’t
Doublemeat Palace Cancels Out Once More, With Feeling
Doublemeat Palace Cancels Out My Childhood



Xander Is The Only Character Who Retains Their Humanity On The Entire Show

Xander Is A Greater Monster Than Angelus And Invented “Nice Guy” Syndrome



Buffy Started To Falter After Angel Premiered


No, Buffy Started To Falter After Firefly Premiered
No, Buffy Has Never Faltered And Is Still On The Air
Buffy Started To Falter When Angel/Faith/Buffy Came Back
Buffy Was Better When It Was A Movie With Kristy Swanson



What If Evil?


Dark Willow Straight-Up Flayed a Dude!
Extremism In the Pursuit of Love Is No Vice
If a Dude Had Flayed Willow, Would We Be Cheering?



Everyone Was Too Hard On Dawn For Being A Regular Human Being

Don’t You Dare Try To Retroactively Justify Dawn



Oz vs. Tara


Oz Was Boring; Tara Was Too Good For This Sinful Earth
Tara Was Boring; Oz Was The Greatest Love Interest In Television History; Remember That Animal Crackers Monologue
What About Kenned–
SHUT UP ABOUT KENNEDY



Jenny Calendar And Race-Bending

Is It Important That Buffy Is Decidedly Not Book Smart?


Not Everyone Is Book Smart, That Is Elitist
Buffy is the Lady Channing Tatum of being Body Smart and That Is Sufficient
It Is a Tremendous Problem and Girls Should Not Watch This Show Or They Will Not Take College Seriously



I Shouldn’t Have To Watch Angel In Order To Appreciate Cordelia’s Growth As A Character

Shaming: Everyone Is Shamed


“Beer Bad” Is Slut-Shaming
“Beer Bad” Is Substance-Shaming and Preachy
“Beer Bad” Is Just a Terrible Episode
Angel Losing His Soul After He Has Sex With Buffy is Slut-Shaming
THE EPISODE WHERE WILLOW ATTENDS THE WICCAN MEETING IS WICCAN-SHAMING WICCANS ARE REAL WE ARE NOT YOUR PUNCHLINE



KENDRA’S ACCENT THOUGH


Was It Irish Sometimes, Or Was That Just Me?
Her Accent is Perfect, and Not To Be Questioned



Activating All Potential Slayers Was An Act Of Patriarchal Violence


Slaying Is Empowering
No, Slayers Were Literally Created When A Woman Of Color Was Forcibly Invaded By A Demonic Essence
Oh, Right
But Then They Get To Beat Up Everybody
Dark Willow Straight-Up Flayed a Dude


Stolen from Talk Of The Town

So - I think we can add a lot more arguments to this list! Anyone else care to try?

TriBel
27-05-18, 10:58 PM
S6 Only Happened Because Of Pressure From Spike Fangirls.

A variant of this is S6 Only Happened Because Marti Noxon Was Fangirling James Marsters.

The strange thing about this (other that the fact I have no idea what "fangirling means in this context) is that some fans are capable of making both arguments simultaneously. So it's pressure from Spike fans and an autonomous decision by Marti "Noxious"? Make your mind up! :confused3: Oh sorry...you can't...you don't have a mind to make up. :)

Another variant is Anyone Who Likes Spuffy Must Hate Buffy.

DeepBlueJoy
27-05-18, 11:18 PM
Kendra was not jamaican, i dont care what anyone says, no one i ever met at home ever sounded that idiotic or bizzzarrrghh

Priceless
27-05-18, 11:19 PM
Joyce was the worst mother on television
Joyce was a product of a misogynist writer who hated mothers
Joyce was a perfect mother, how dare you say any different

Angel's Irish accent was terrible
Joss was so jealous of DB that's why he made him do an Irish accent, to belittle him
Angel's Irish accent is pretty damn good, you shut your mouth about it

SpuffyGlitz
28-05-18, 12:37 AM
I think these are a few more...

Riley was Buffy's Healthiest Boyfriend
Riley was Buffy's Wimpiest Boyfriend
Riley was Woefully Misunderstood don't you dare say otherwise
Buffy didn't need a "Healthy Boyfriend" - She was Just Baking

Buffy Shouldn't Be Pretty else she isn't truly feminist
Buffy Can Be Pretty AND Angry - Who died and made YOU Queen?
That's Irrelevant - What Joss is Really Saying is Women Can't Handle Power (look at Dark Willow)

Spike was behind the Demon Eggs Thing - always knew he was a scheming cockroach
Riley engineered the Demon Eggs Thing - it was all part of a conspiracy

Season Seven Suffered from the Pesky Potentials
Season Seven Was Derailed by Spike's Heroic Arc
Season Seven Ignored Buffy's Victim Status, how could they?!

KingofCretins
28-05-18, 12:48 AM
The demon eggs is not actually the argument you probably think it is. It's one of the more hotly promoted bits of headcanon, I'll grant you, but not much of an argument.

Also, no mention of "The Lie" is no list at all. "The Lie" has, over the course of time, been about as effective at stirring the pudding as saying "Sylvanas" in a Warcraft related forum.

bespangled
28-05-18, 01:52 AM
Everyone was horribly wrong to kick Buffy out in Empty Places
Buffy was horribly wrong in season 7 and deserved to be kicked out in Empty Places
Dawn was the one who kicked Buffy out and she is an ungrateful brat.
Anything that went went wrong in season 7 was Spike's fault. If he hadn't come back everyone would have been good to each other.

Sosa lola
28-05-18, 08:35 AM
The list is forgetting a lot of the major Xander arguements:

1) I agree with King that The Lie is one of, if the biggest, vicious wars in fandom with two differing points of view and is still discussed heatedly to this day.
2) Xander the abusive boyfriend, especially with Anya.
3) Xander never stopped having romantic feelings for Buffy.
4) Xander never faces any consequences for any of his actions.
5) Xander summoning Sweet in OMWF: was he protecting Dawn or did he really do it?
6) Xander the women-hating creep who should have been one of Warren's followers.
7) Xander never learned how to fight, therefore, shouldn't get a say in any Scooby argument.
8) Xander telling Dawn about the AR is worse than the AR itself.
9) Xander the bigot with his demon xenophobia.
10) Buffy and the show would have been 10 times better off had Xander died in The Harvest instead of Jesse.

Priceless
28-05-18, 09:24 AM
Also, no mention of "The Lie" is no list at all. "The Lie" has, over the course of time, been about as effective at stirring the pudding as saying "Sylvanas" in a Warcraft related forum.


To paraphrase Anya, you are using references I have no way of knowing :D What are Sylvanas?

Skippcomet
29-05-18, 02:13 AM
Oh, yeah. Back when Season Three was A Thing, there was an article about television show-runners and their interactions with fans on The Internetz back when that was considered a New and Newsworthy Thing, in which Joss was one of the show-runners interviewed, and he basically admits that the extremely negative backlash against The Lie had a direct impact on how they used Xander that season, and I'd argue how they used Xander from then on.

Sosa lola
29-05-18, 06:33 AM
Oh, yeah. Back when Season Three was A Thing, there was an article about television show-runners and their interactions with fans on The Internetz back when that was considered a New and Newsworthy Thing, in which Joss was one of the show-runners interviewed, and he basically admits that the extremely negative backlash against The Lie had a direct impact on how they used Xander that season, and I'd argue how they used Xander from then on.

I remember that! Such a shame. I liked S1 and S2 Xander. I wanna know if they had an original plan for him.