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View Full Version : Is attempted rape of a good person worse than attempted murder of a good person?



MikeB
09-05-18, 01:34 AM
Edit: Regarding the Poll, Uncursed Angel's actions in BtVS S2 and Spike's actions in BtVS S2 are worse overall for good people than attempting to rape a good person.

I didn't include Glory's actions in BtVS S5 in the poll because her actions aren't bad for her and her goals.

Spike in BtVS S2 was trying to cure Drusilla and make her happy and from "School Hard" (B 2.03) to pre-"Becoming Part II" (B 2.22), his actions revolve around that.

Uncursed Angel was no longer a good person and now had more loyalty to his vampire family than to Buffy and the Scoobies.


End of Edit
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All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



This obviously regards Spike's attempting to rape Buffy in "Seeing Red" (B 6.19) versus his previous attempts to kill her and his various BtVS S2 through BtVS S7 actions. It also regards:

1.) Uncursed Angel's attempts to kill/murder Xander, Buffy, everyone in the world who has any humanity, etc. And his attempts to send the world to a hell dimension. And Season 8.

2.) Xander's attempt to murder Spike in "Entropy" (B 6.18).

3.) Robin Wood's attempting to murder Spike in "Storyteller" (B 7.16) and in "Lies My Parents Told Me" (B 7.17).

Etc.

Dark Willow was 'insane' with grief; so, I somewhat forgive her for asking Dawn if Dawn wants to die.



I've never understood why some fans regard the AR as worse than previous things Spike's done or tried to do to Buffy.

Outside of perhaps in "Smashed" (B 6.09), Spike in BtVS S6 never once tried to kill Buffy. Spike is a quasi Scooby in BtVS S4 and only isn't an actual Scooby because he declined Giles's offer. Spike in BtVS S5 is quasi part of the 'Scooby family' and only isn't more part of it because he distanced himself from it. Spike in BtVS S6 was a Scooby but essentially abandoned them and Dawn to focus on Buffy and his relationship with Buffy. Spike does the demon eggs thing in BtVS S6--arguably is most evil act since getting the Judge in "Surprise" (B 2.13).

Spike's actions in "Seeing Red" (B 6.19) aren't as bad as his actions in "The Initiative" (B 4.07). By "Pangs" (B 4.08), Spike is literally sitting at Buffy's Thanksgiving dinner. By "Something Blue" (B 4.09), Buffy was seriously considering dating Spike. Nothing was done regarding Spike's siding with Adam. Spike's punishment for his "Out of My Mind" (B 5.04) actions is Buffy relatively lightly punches him in the face apologizing beforehand.

Giles and Xander being against Spike after "Crush" (B 5.14) and after "Seeing Red" (B 6.19) is largely to almost all attributed to they not wanting Buffy/Spike. It's telling that once Xander supports Buffy/Spike, he is relatively very supportive of Spike. Giles in "Lies My Parents Told Me" (B 7.17) agrees to Wood's plan because Giles doesn't want Buffy/Spike. Before learning about Buffy/Spike, Giles would have protected Spike from someone like Wood. See: BtVS S4.

Anyway, I'm sure Xander and Giles would have more of a problem if Spike tried to kill Buffy in BtVS S6 and after than they would Spike's trying to rape Buffy. Xander in "Seeing Red" (B 6.19) makes a point to Buffy that he considers Buffy wouldn't be with Spike if Spike could kill her.

Rebcake
09-05-18, 04:07 AM
This may be off topic, but why "good person"? And what is the criteria for who is "good"? I'd argue that it's just as wrong to attempt to rape or murder a "bad" person, but maybe that's just me. :headscratch:

ghoststar
09-05-18, 05:33 AM
There’s a crucial complication that made me vote “maybe/depends.” All else being equal, the murder would be worse, and it’s not even close. However, there’s an aspect of betrayal to the AR in “Seeing Red” that makes me view it more harshly than some of Spike’s previous attempts to kill Buffy & Co. I still don’t see it as worse than smuggling WMD through her town, or Giles’s teaming up with Wood to kill Spike (ditto), because those are also betrayals. But I think it’s worse than trying to kill Buffy before he’d given her his allegiance.

TimeTravellingBunny
09-05-18, 04:23 PM
There’s a crucial complication that made me vote “maybe/depends.” All else being equal, the murder would be worse, and it’s not even close. However, there’s an aspect of betrayal to the AR in “Seeing Red” that makes me view it more harshly than some of Spike’s previous attempts to kill Buffy & Co. I still don’t see it as worse than smuggling WMD through her town, or Giles’s teaming up with Wood to kill Spike (ditto), because those are also betrayals. But I think it’s worse than trying to kill Buffy before he’d given her his allegiance.

It's not all about Buffy. Soulless unchipped Spike was also killing a bunch of innocent people that weren't posing any danger to him, as did Angelus and any other soulless, evil vampire, and none of them felt any guilt about it.

I wasn't sure about Spike's actions in OOMM, but I did in the end vote for it because Spike removing the chip also meant Spike wanted to be the old Spike who was able to happily kill humans.

flow
09-05-18, 04:54 PM
I haven`t voted, because I don`t understand the question at all.

A rape is bad. A murder is bad. You can certainley say, that a rape or a murder is worse than stealing a bottle of booze from a corner market, but that is about it. You can`t measure the badness of crimes, that violate a persons physical integrity.

And raping or murdering a bad person - even if we should find a way to define "bad" and agree on who is going to have the final word, wether "bad" applies to a certain person or not - is as evil as raping or murdering a good person.

flow

Bop
13-05-18, 10:46 PM
I'm sorry but this poll reads as rape apology. Not to mention Robin did not try and "murder" Spike, murder is when a human unlawfully kills another human. The fact that five people believe that a grieved son trying to avenge his mother's death is worse than a horny vampire trying to rape our heroine is concerning to say the least. Honestly in disbelief, I can understand having sympathy for Spike but to even imply that the AR was not that bad, even in comparison to worse things, is just plain gross.