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View Full Version : Would Spike have been interested in Bufy in "SH" if he didn't know about Buffy/Angel?



MikeB
24-04-18, 01:48 PM
Spike eventually knows Buffy is a Slayer version of himself (and then himself and his mother) and that's where much of his attraction and love for Buffy comes from. But Spike in "School Hard" (B 2.03) also knows Buffy/Spike is possible because he overhears that Buffy is dating Angel.

Spike didn't know Angel existed before Drusilla takes Spike to meet Darla and Angel.

The bigger question is whether Buffy/Spike was ever possible if Buffy/Angel didn't happen, but that requires a lot of speculation to try to answer.

We first see Spike's attraction to Buffy AFTER he overhears Buffy is dating Angel. Before that, he's lurking in the shadows and simply sees a comely, possibly bottle blonde, Slayer. Then he sees Buffy dance and is attracted to her sexuality.

I reason that initially most of Spike's attraction and interest in Buffy is because Drusilla was dying. If Drusilla was healthy in "School Hard" (B 2.03), Spike wouldn't be as attracted to and interested in Buffy. Then, Spike learns about Buffy/Angel and that would spark more interest for Spike. Then Buffy's dancing sparks more interest. Then, Spike's seeing Joyce sparks further interest.

"Halloween" (B 2.06): Spike next sees Buffy's slaying and then looking like Cecily Underwood and Drusilla Keeble.

"Lie to Me" (B 2.07): Buffy then doesn't dust Drusilla and never actually tries to dust Drusilla (even in Ring of Fire , Buffy would assume Dru is fast enough not to be dusted by a stake thrown at her).

Dru is about to be cured and Angel dead in "What's My Line Part II" (B 2.10) when Spike's sees Buffy again. Spike is willing to kill Buffy.

Spike is willing to kill Buffy and Angel in "Surprise" (B 2.13). Again, Dru is cured.

While Dru was flirting with Angel to try to keep Spike's attention on her and not Buffy and Dru was having sexual relations with Spike, the result was Spike's interest in Buffy increased. Buffy wasn't dating anyone. But Spike doesn't prefer Buffy over Dru until "Crush" (B 5.14).


"Halloween" (B 2.06) shows Spike was interested in Buffy in "School Hard" (B 2.03) or before "Halloween" begins. Spike wasn't merely attracted to Buffy. Spike may have been attracted to Buffy even without knowing about Buffy/Angel, but it seems doubtful he'd be interested given he still would have killed Buffy in "School Hard" (B 2.03) were not for Joyce's interference.

Priceless
24-04-18, 05:43 PM
You make some really good points MikeB. I think Spike was interested in Buffy because firstly Buffy is the Slayer, so even before he knew her, he was 'attracted' to her. On first seeing her I think he fancied her, in that he thought she was pretty and was attracted to the way she looked. It was only later, as he learnt about her as a person, beyond being the slayer with a pretty face, that he began to like her/want her. I think that began in Becoming, when he trusted her enough to suggest a truce and she trusted him enough to agree to it. It proved to him that Buffy was more than a Slayer, or just a pretty face.

I do think the fact Buffy and Angel had been a couple did play a part in Spike's thinking, maybe gave him more hope than he otherwise would have had. Buffy had been in a relationship with a vampire prior to him, so he knew it was possible she would be open to seeing him as something other than just another demon in a mans body. I agree, he probably also found it interesting and entertaining that Angel had managed to get himself involved with a Slayer, and he probably thought it was a sign of Angel's absolute stupidity and soul-having.

You mention Joyce, and I also think that was another part of Spike's attraction to Buffy, the fact that she had Joyce and that Joyce was nice to him. Spike has mother issues, he seems to have endless respect for Joyce and I think he really likes her and enjoys her company. I think, even in the dark times (from Spike's pov) he probably though he stood a chance with Buffy because Joyce liked him and was nice to him, so her daughter would eventually come to feel the same.

ghoststar
24-04-18, 06:10 PM
I don't think Spike thinks Dru is dying; I think he thinks she's sick with a potentially fatal disease, which is a different story. He's expecting the Hellmouth to make her stronger, and it's likely that he already knows a spell exists to reverse the damage. While the clock's ticking on that front, Spike has a lot of faith in his ability to track down and implement spells, as we'll later see at the end of season 6. In "School Hard," he seems pretty confident that she'll be OK. We don't see him acknowledge the possibility that they'll run out of time until "What's My Line, Part 1." Further, he could easily seduce (or just be seduced) by some random woman/vampire, if he were getting twitchy from the lack of sex. He has no problem drawing Sheila's attentions, and the book thief from "Lie to Me" certainly seems to be trying, and failing, to catch his eye. I don't see Dru's sickness as a direct cause of his attraction to Buffy, although it obviously puts them in proximity.

What about Angel? I can imagine him being excited by the thought of a Slayer who loved a vampire enough to defy the rules, and that fits with his admiration for Buffy's courage. OTOH, there's no direct evidence that he cares either way about her affair with Angel, at least not until late in season 7-- long after Buffy and Spike have gotten together and broken up. Prior to that, they discuss Angel in from a business angle (e.g., their plans to defeat him in "Becoming, Part 2"); Spike gives Buffy and Angel relationship advice ("Lovers Walk"); and, while fighting Buffy in "The Harsh Light of Day," Spike makes fun of her abandonment by Angel. IIRC, Spike only mentions Buffy and Angel's romance twice in seasons five and six put together: Once after she rejects him with the note that he's a vampire ("Crush"), and once, with a rather amused tone, in response to her attempts to deny being sexually attracted to vampires ("Wrecked"). It's likely that, once Spike has already become infatuated with Buffy, the knowledge that she's dated a vampire before gives him hope, but there's not much to support the idea that it led him to become infatuated with her in the first place.

GoSpuffy
24-04-18, 06:15 PM
I think Spike was interested immediately and he didn't know Angel was even in town when he was watching her dance. I think the fact that Buffy had dated Angel later gave Spike the thought that he might be with her too.

flow
24-04-18, 07:17 PM
Sorry, I am getting off topic here, but where does the name Keeble come from ?

flow

GoSpuffy
24-04-18, 07:21 PM
I heard somewhere that Juliette landau made it up.

Stoney
24-04-18, 07:25 PM
I don't remember it being in canon or confirmed in canon (like Pratt has now been). I assume it comes from a non-canon comic. :noidea:

TriBel
24-04-18, 07:38 PM
flow:
Sorry, I am getting off topic here, but where does the name Keeble come from ?

Germany *eye roll*

Keeble Name Meaning. English: variant of Kibble. Americanized spelling of South German Kübel, a metonymic occupational name for a cooper, from Middle High German kübel 'tub', 'vat'.:)

In the dubiously canon issue Drusilla, Part Two, the surname "Keeble" is seem in a dream in her house's mail box. (Wiki) :)

Google's my best mate! :hug: On second thoughts...:sadwalk: