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Priceless
02-03-18, 08:13 AM
I'd like to keep this thread really positive. If you love/like Spuffy, why? What is it about the relationship that appeals to you?

For me, I'd never seen a relationship like this on tv. They went beyond the 'attraction of opposites' trope into a whole new division of tv relationships. They were opposites as people, but also as philosophies and natures, and to see them slowly be bought together was just fascinating. Nothing was easy for them, virtually every step was painful and it was beautiful for that.

TriBel
02-03-18, 11:01 AM
@ Priceless. Thanks for the qualification of like/love - and apologies because this is a cut and paste from something I posted elsewhere.

In a sense, I shipped Spuffy before BtVS was aired – it slotted into my interests at the time. To my mind, what the relationship re-presents is a deconstruction of itself and its own conditions of possiblity. In the process of deconstruction, it reconstructs the series, transforming it into an eutopic (or workable utopic) text. In order to be radically instrumental a utopian text distances itself from what is extant while simultaneously addressing the present with moral urgency. It projects itself into the future without leaping over the abyss it has uncovered and it encompasses both past and present without being reliant on either. In short, it’s both discontinuous and continuous with history and language: it expresses without saying and "is" while still becoming. It founds itself in the present in order to bridge us beyond it by persuading us along a trajectory whereby we can desire constructively and not need badly. This, IMO, is S7. It's also a very pretentious way of saying what you said :(.

For me S7 culminates in a reconfiguration of desire. It plants the seeds for something – a utopian thought - only just coming to fruition in the comics (and I include A11 in this). I’ve nicked this from (T) Eagleton. ‘A utopian thought that does not risk simply making us ill [S6/Twilight] is one able to trace within the present that secret lack of identity with itself which is the spot where a feasible future might germinate - the place where the future overshadows and hollows out the present’s spurious repleteness. To “know the future” can only mean to grasp the present under the sign of its internal contradictions, in the alienations of its desire, in its persistent inability ever quite to coincide with itself.’

Don’t ask me what it all means – I’ve probably forgotten now.( I’m too busy reading a Spuffy fan-fic where Man U score in extra time against Liverpool. Sigh...Ain't love grand :)).

Oh...and head-tilts. I forgot to mention head-tilts :wub:.

Fool for Buffy
02-03-18, 08:27 PM
Also gonna copy paste from something I said elsewhere.

Their story inspires me to be a better person honestly. Spike came from a place of seemingly unredeemable evil and was transformed by love into a hero. Buffy was his purpose, and he chose her over logic, what was easy, and what others said was better for him. Their continual message is that love conquers all, something everybody should try to live by.

Also, Buffy and Spike were there for each other when they most needed it. Spike was the only person to help Buffy deal with being alive again, Buffy was the only person to care for Spike when he was being triggered, Spike brought her back to the final battle, and Buffy stood by Spike at his death and told him what he needed to hear.

Spike and Buffy have monumental problems; I'm not blind. However the way they solve problems has always been substantially more important to me. Spike is exactly what Buffy should be against, so he makes a change to be the kind of man she deserves. Buffy at first is selfish in her treatment of Spike, so she selflessly cares for him later. Spike committed a sin that is often considered unforgivable. So he doesn't beg. He lets his actions speak and proves that he is a better person, while Buffy treats compassion as more valuable than anger in order to forgive him.

I've never seen a love that measures up to Spuffy, and I don't think I will. I can find countless examples of reasons they really shouldn't work, but I somehow can disprove all of them. I will always come back to looking at them with the eyes of Buffy in Showtime: admiration and devotion.

GoSpuffy
02-03-18, 09:14 PM
I always want to create a worthy manifesto to Spuffy but I never seem to find the time. This is the only ship in the world that really moves me to the point of really caring about the outcome. I think it's because of the journey. I didn't look at evil Spike in school hard and think "that's the boyfriend for Buffy" but the two of them took us on such a twisted rollercoaster ride where we were up and down and then turned around that it just mesmerized me. I could definitely see sparks flying off the characters before Something Blue but when the spell put them together I was hooked. I so wanted spuffy to be but never dreamed it could happen. But yet some how it did happen much to my delight.

I think part of why I ship this relationship above all others is I do see Buffy as the hero, as the chosen one who has given up and lost so much so I want her to be loved by someone who is strong enough for her. Someone who loves her without question. And I see Spike as the ultimate outsider. Rejected by Cecily, by Darla, Angel, Dru, the scoobies. And despite how many times he is rejected he bounces back and keeps trying.

So between me really wanting a happy ending for different reasons for both characters, the chemistry that bounces off them, how hot they look together, and just how entertaining every little thing between them has been that's what makes me appreciate spuffy.

TriBel
02-03-18, 09:27 PM
Also gonna copy paste from something I said elsewhere.

Their story inspires me to be a better person honestly. Spike came from a place of seemingly unredeemable evil and was transformed by love into a hero. Buffy was his purpose, and he chose her over logic, what was easy, and what others said was better for him. Their continual message is that love conquers all, something everybody should try to live by.

Also, Buffy and Spike were there for each other when they most needed it. Spike was the only person to help Buffy deal with being alive again, Buffy was the only person to care for Spike when he was being triggered, Spike brought her back to the final battle, and Buffy stood by Spike at his death and told him what he needed to hear.

Spike and Buffy have monumental problems; I'm not blind. However the way they solve problems has always been substantially more important to me. Spike is exactly what Buffy should be against, so he makes a change to be the kind of man she deserves. Buffy at first is selfish in her treatment of Spike, so she selflessly cares for him later. Spike committed a sin that is often considered unforgivable. So he doesn't beg. He lets his actions speak and proves that he is a better person, while Buffy treats compassion as more valuable than anger in order to forgive him.

I've never seen a love that measures up to Spuffy, and I don't think I will. I can find countless examples of reasons they really shouldn't work, but I somehow can disprove all of them. I will always come back to looking at them with the eyes of Buffy in Showtime: admiration and devotion.

LOL! I lied - I never got round to posting mine (I ran out of patience) but I was going to post it where you posted this - with the closing comment that I agreed with you. :)

And...I retract the earlier remark. I've just posted it!

Priceless
03-03-18, 10:10 AM
Oh...and head-tilts. I forgot to mention head-tilts .


The head tilts are a vital component of Spuffy. And hands. And touch, when they reach for each other, or clasp hands. The physical is more important and meaningful in this relationship then in any other I've ever seen on tv. It's seeing the layers of meaning that makes me love Spuffy.


Spike and Buffy have monumental problems; I'm not blind.

I agree that it's seeing them overcome so much and to change themselves to be better people for each other, it's amazing and makes their story so compelling. I love that they virtually had to change their very natures to come together, often against their better judgement :D Nothing was easy for them, they battled against themselves every step of the way. And finally, in season 11 we finally get the acceptance that we've wanted for so long.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wanted to add that it really annoys me when people infer that the main reason people are Spuffy fans is because of the way Spike looks. If he weren't so good looking ,and often shirtless, he wouldn't be so popular. That sort of nonsense just irritates me. Yes, he's a good looking guy, but so were virtually all the other guys on the show. It was a teen show in the 90's, you had to be good looking. I love Spike because of his character and his ability to change and keep being interesting in every version of himself.

flow
03-03-18, 12:52 PM
I am going to quote Buffy. There are two lines from her, one from the show and one from the comics:

"I am not ready for you not to be here"

and

"I like, who I am, when I am with him. I like, who we are, when we are together."

Those two lines to me are the two most beautiful declarations of love in fiction. Ever. And they are from the same fictional story. About the same relationship. I have nothing more to add.

flow

Priceless
03-03-18, 01:03 PM
I am going to quote Buffy. There are two lines from her, one from the show and one from the comics:

"I am not ready for you not to be here"

and

"I like, who I am, when I am with him. I like, who we are, when we are together."

Those two lines to me are the two most beautiful declarations of love in fiction. Ever. And they are from the same fictional story. About the same relationship. I have nothing more to add.

flow

The writing of Spuffy is beautiful when it needs to be. But they do anger and disgust in the writing really well too. And that sweetness I love too, as in Hells Bells when Spike says Buffy glows and Buffy replies that it's the dress which is radioactive. It's such a lovely moment and we don't get enough sweet moments between them.

I think the acting is great too. I love the scene on the landing in First Date, when Buffy tells Spike he can move on too, and the camera stays on Spikes face as Buffy walks away, and that face tells you all you need to know - there is no way Spike is ever moving on from this. Whether he's with her or not, Buffy is and always will be Spikes whole world.

TriBel
03-03-18, 01:33 PM
And that sweetness I love too, as in Hells Bells when Spike says Buffy glows and Buffy replies that it's the dress which is radioactive.

I've just has a thought about that dress. Bear with me. I was watching Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula - someone - think it's Lucy - is wearing a similar dress. I'm sure she calls it her "Snake Dress". Does Spike take encouragement from the exchange in Hells Bells (and what does the title mean - other than being a play on Hell's Belles? A signal from Hell? A warning from Hell?). Anya describe the traditional alternative as Burlap and Blood Larvae and the spell Willow casts in Potential "To light the aura of the new, skin of snake and chrysalis too" mentions both snakes and pupae - and there's a "glow" involved there. I jut wondered whether there was a connection between the two episodes.

Stoney
03-03-18, 02:14 PM
Just wanted to add that it really annoys me when people infer that the main reason people are Spuffy fans is because of the way Spike looks. If he weren't so good looking ,and often shirtless, he wouldn't be so popular. That sort of nonsense just irritates me. Yes, he's a good looking guy, but so were virtually all the other guys on the show. It was a teen show in the 90's, you had to be good looking. I love Spike because of his character and his ability to change and keep being interesting in every version of himself.

This. I think Spike is incredibly gorgeous, but I really didn't think that from the start in S2. Sure it didn't do any harm finding out he was stunning under the duster(!), but I grew to adore the character as much as I do because of his arc and loving the coherent depth given to his progression across the series. And that's truly what I love about Spike and Buffy's relationship too, it's the depth in the story and the coherency for them both individually and then how their paths entwine to develop together too.

They were opposites but shared many similar personality traits that they seemed to get an instinctive feel for each other. From the first moment they were on screen together how the characters interacted was really compelling to watch and the actors had such great onscreen chemistry. But it's the way that they evolved together and were such significant parts of each other's development into being stronger people. We saw their weaknesses and their flaws, how they hurt each other and then came past that and inspired each other. They're not static characters and it reflects in their relationship. It's all about the progression and depth for me, I don't know another fictional relationship that has so much.


I think the acting is great too. I love the scene on the landing in First Date, when Buffy tells Spike he can move on too, and the camera stays on Spikes face as Buffy walks away, and that face tells you all you need to know - there is no way Spike is ever moving on from this. Whether he's with her or not, Buffy is and always will be Spikes whole world.

The writing is just incredible, but yes, they definitely benefited hugely by two actors being cast in the roles that could bring so much emotion with such subtlety.

Priceless
08-03-18, 12:43 PM
One thing I love about their relationship is how in echoes and replays scenes with a different feeling and outcome to show how their relationship has grown and changed. In Smashed Spike follows Buffy into an abandoned house, just as he does in Touched. In Smashed they get physically close and in Touched they get emotionally close.

Silver1
08-03-18, 02:04 PM
Talking of which I read a post on the dreaded Tumblr that even for that place seemed an extreme reaction.


I avoided watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer for YEARS because when it was originally on, all the girls who were mean to me watched it, so I avoided it out of association. A friend of mine later told me how she had enjoyed the show, so when I was about 24/25 and I saw it on TV I decided it was time to give it a chance. For the most part, I liked it. Sure, it isn’t the best thing ever, but it has some good moments. However… I will never forgive this show for making me watch one the most AWFUL SCENES I HAVE EVER WITNESSED. I don’t know who wrote the specific part (though it was probably the Joss-monster), but I dislike them with great intensity. That scene isn’t just one of the worst parts of the show, it is one of the worst parts of any show ever. I think everybody who watched the show knows about the general not-good-stuff, but we also have that one thing that personally ticks us off.

For me it is that freaking fight scene between Spike and Buffy in the building that starts falling apart aND I CAN’T EVEN DESCRIBE IT I HATE IT SO MUCH

TriBel
08-03-18, 02:24 PM
@ Silver 1.
Talking of which I read a post on the dreaded Tumblr that even for that place seemed an extreme reaction.

LOL! I've just "liked/given thanks" for your post when really I don't like it at all! :down: I think we need a button for "Thanks for drawing my attention to this but please understand I disagree vehemently with what's been said" :bang: (or words to that effect. Brevity isn't my strong point :()

Silver1
08-03-18, 02:26 PM
Don't worry love, I get it. :lol:

There are so many special snowflakes in that place.

betta
08-03-18, 03:59 PM
All reasons that have already been stated here; and the long way home, the beuatiful, messy and painfull journey till these two finally arrived at the same point, both healed from traumas past. :heart:

And I love the panel below:

https://i.imgur.com/H3G0sNg.jpg

Buffy is feeling Spike's feelings, same feelings she has; all true, very real, not a fairy tale from a storybook. I think Christos Gage was very perceptive concerning Buffy and Spike's story.


Just wanted to add that it really annoys me when people infer that the main reason people are Spuffy fans is because of the way Spike looks.

I've always wanted to ask these people/Bangels why they think Angel is so ugly and un-sexy... :p


I am going to quote Buffy. There are two lines from her, one from the show and one from the comics:

"I am not ready for you not to be here"

and

"I like, who I am, when I am with him. I like, who we are, when we are together."

Those two lines to me are the two most beautiful declarations of love in fiction. Ever. And they are from the same fictional story. About the same relationship. I have nothing more to add.

flow

Totally agree. All about the journey.

Silver1
08-03-18, 04:35 PM
Just wanted to add that it really annoys me when people infer that the main reason people are Spuffy fans is because of the way Spike looks.

Seriously? His looks? Whatever folks might think JM worked bloody hard to maintain his body weight and work out to be Spike in the latter seasons, unlike some in the cast. ;)

Priceless
08-03-18, 09:48 PM
Talking of which I read a post on the dreaded Tumblr that even for that place seemed an extreme reaction.

Maybe she's a builder and can't bear to see old houses falling down :D Otherwise I've no clue what's wrong with this person :confused: :xd

Priceless
15-03-18, 11:10 AM
I think the best way to understand what is happening in Season 7 is to realise Buffy is in love with Spike. I sometimes think people don't know that. She hasn't got the words or the understanding of it herself, but that's what's going on. Season 7 is a love story continuation of Season 6, in which Buffy is slowly moving towards a greater understanding of the world, herself and what she wants from the world. Spike is moving towards the same things, from a different direction.

TriBel
15-03-18, 04:40 PM
I think the best way to understand what is happening in Season 7 is to realise Buffy is in love with Spike. I sometimes think people don't know that. She hasn't got the words or the understanding of it herself, but that's what's going on. Season 7 is a love story continuation of Season 6, in which Buffy is slowly moving towards a greater understanding of the world, herself and what she wants from the world. Spike is moving towards the same things, from a different direction.

I think "the house" is one of the most important metaphors in the text (sigh - have I already said this? Perils of old age). The shift from "an abandoned house" through eviction/self eviction from the "mother's house" to new beginnings in "a strange house" (and let's not forget she encourages a man with a very "big gun" to move out) is one of the ways the text maps her new self awareness/awareness of self and her relation to both the world and Spike. She may not have the words but the text articulates them. Have I said how much I like S7 - and how much I like this forum? :D

Priceless
15-03-18, 04:50 PM
I think "the house" is one of the most important metaphors in the text (sigh - have I already said this? Perils of old age). The shift from "an abandoned house" through eviction/self eviction from the "mother's house" to new beginnings in "a strange house" (and let's not forget she encourages a man with a very "big gun" to move out) is one of the ways the text maps her new self awareness/awareness of self and her relation to both the world and Spike. She may not have the words but the text articulates them. Have I said how much I like S7 - and how much I like this forum? :D

And I shall add how much we like you :D

Is the 'big gun' a penis metaphor . . . or am I just lowering the tone? The house metaphor really works for me, because of the Smashed house, falling around them as they have sex. I also like that Spike does not live in a house to begin with, but a crypt, and he moves into any house that Buffy enters. And of course in S5 she bars him, then allows him to enter. I like how he reveals his soul to Buffy in a House of God . . . there are so many houses in the show

SpuffyGlitz
15-03-18, 06:25 PM
@ Betta Agree completely -- and LOVE your banner! :loveeyes:

EDITED: Woops, it didn't quote Betta...still learning how this works

betta
15-03-18, 06:56 PM
@ Betta Agree completely -- and LOVE your banner! :loveeyes:

Thanks! Yay, 400 posts, I've got the right to have a banner! Thanks Priceless, you know why! ;)

Priceless
15-03-18, 07:02 PM
Thanks! Yay, 400 posts, I've got the right to have a banner! Thanks Priceless, you know why! ;)

And it's a fantastic banner! Spuffy :wub:

TriBel
16-03-18, 12:03 AM
And I shall add how much we like you :roll:


Is the 'big gun' a penis metaphor . . . or am I just lowering the tone? Yes, it's a penis metaphor and, yes you've lowered the tone! I was trying to avoid mention of penis or phallus on the grounds that I'm beginning to sound perverse (and slightly obsessive). Of course, I could disguise it by using a term such as phallogocularcentric but that makes me sound both pretentious and perverse so I won't.

It's important in S7 because the aesthetic mode is (for much of the time) the uncanny, best left in German as "unheimlich" - something that's simultaneously homely/not homely, familiar/unfamiliar, familial/not familial. Given the child's first home is the mother, it's significant that both Nikki and Joyce, though loved, also appear as the first evil. I find it interesting that both "father's houses" (the Church and the Mission) have the same icon of Madonna and Child. Look at the number of surrogate/pseudo fathers, real and extended families. The Crypt - house of the dead. The body houses the soul. etc.etc.