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flow
05-02-18, 04:18 PM
Hi,

I have two questions about Anya and would like to hear your thoughts on them.

1. Human or demon ?

Anya was born as a human and then became a vengeance demon until her necklace was taken away from her and destroyed by Giles. Later she became a vengeance demon once again and until she gets fired in Selfless by D`Hoffryn, who tells her she "is out".

Is she in the time between her first performance and her second Performance a human or is she a demon stripped off her demonic powers ? We don`t know, what it takes, to "create" a vengeance demon, but is it really just wearing a necklace ?
The same question goes for Selfless. Does she become human or is she again a demon, stripped of demonic powers, after D`Hoffryn tells her, she "is out" ?

There is a converstaion with Andrew in the hospital, where she talks about humans, as if she does not see herself as part of them but as a different being. She says something like "Humans are morons, but I am going to fight with them". If she had considered herself to be human, she should have said "we are morons, but we are fighting together".

2. With Xander or not ?

In season7 Xander and Anya decide, to go separate ways. Later they have a one night stand, that does not turn out to be that great and they agree, that it was some kind of good-by sex. But after that, they have sex once again and - although it is just days before the battle - they seem to be pretty close after that.

Were they together again? I know, that there is no official announcement, but considering her death in the battle at the hellmouth, I would like to think of her as having been together with Xander again before that. It probably would have made her very happy in the last days, before her death.

flow

Priceless
05-02-18, 07:33 PM
Once Anya's necklace is destroyed she reverts back to being human. She does refer to herself as an ex-demon, but I spent so long as a demon it's hard for her to think of herself as human.

I thought Anya and Xander's goodbye sex in season 7 went quite well, they both seemed happy. I think Anya wanted them to get back together, but Xander seemed content with this being the end. I don't think they were a couple after that, but maybe friends with benefits :D

TimeTravellingBunny
05-02-18, 10:15 PM
On the second question, I'd say they were in an on-off relationship, and lying to themselves that they were over, just like they were lying to themselves that they weren't an item in and right after The Harsh Light of Day. I can't see Anya's statement that it was break-up sex any more seriously than her claiming she was "over" Xander after they had sex the first time in THLoD.

GoSpuffy
05-02-18, 11:44 PM
I'm with TTB on the relationship status. They were still figuring things out.

And I'm with Pricey with the demon status. She was an ex-demon who felt disconnected from humanity as she'd been gone so long.

My Anya question is: Does a vengence demon have a soul? Does it pop off and then come back when the necklace is broken? It kind of seems like they have souls but they don't matter when they're demons. I've never understood this part of Anya.

Stoney
06-02-18, 12:44 PM
Yes I agree that Anya returns to being a human and that her and Xander were in an on/off status at the point when she died in S7. I certainly don't think they had got back together but it could have ended up that way in time.

Interesting additional question GoSpuffy. It's difficult with Anya because it doesn't feel like she gains a soul again when she is made human, that something that had been stripped from her when she became a vengeance demon is returned. Of course she has been a demon for a thousand years so that behaviour is essentially more ingrained, but there isn't a wave of guilt about what she has done, she even seems pretty proud/boastful on occasions, and she doesn't seem to have any qualms in trying to manipulate others etc. to try and get her powers back. As there was a disassociation from society and a drive/want to issue vengeance on others in the first place, perhaps that twisting of the person is all that's needed and just human hatred and the ability to be bad/cruel is enough. So there is no need to remove the soul of a human that opts to take the life of a vengeance demon. The progress and change that we see in Anya in the earlier seasons is a reintegration into society. Learning how to take a positive place. What Anya then reaches beyond that in S7 is more consistent with this again I think, that she is able to return to the life of a vengeance demon and from that then finds that she has changed and she no longer is comfortable meting out vengeance spells on people as she once was. So I really don't see a soul loss again there, it just doesn't seem to work in the same way as happens with vampires. So I would assume it is a different situation, that she is souled throughout and despite immortality/strength being within the powers that she gains. I'd say in a narrative sense her arc is more in line with Faith's than Spike's and Angel's as it is about making a different choice rather than the inclusion of the soul bringing something they lacked without.

flow
09-02-18, 10:28 AM
My Anya question is: Does a vengence demon have a soul? Does it pop off and then come back when the necklace is broken? It kind of seems like they have souls but they don't matter when they're demons. I've never understood this part of Anya.


When Anya asks D`Hoffryn to undo the consequences of the wish on the frat boys, he answers: "It takes the life and the soul of a vengeance demon"

That pretty much seems to make it canon, that vengeance demons do have a soul. But it also leaves questions:

Does becoming a vengeance demon mean, you get a demon Soul as opposed to a human soul ? Does the human soul vanish ? Is it restored to Anya, when she becomes human again ?

Actually this was one of the reasons, why I questioned, if Anya ever became human again or if it was possible, she was still a demon, just without demon powers. Because her soul did not seem to be affected in any way by all the evil acts, she had committed in the past. That would make sense though, if she (still) had a demon soul instead of a human soul.

There is also the possibility, that both souls coexist, as long, as she is a vengeance demon. Or - that is another possibility - that her human soul is turned into a demon soul just like she herself is turned from human to demon. Both possibilities could explain, why she does not feel any remorse or guilt. The Soul would already have been there throughout all those centuries of vengeance.

The Buffyverse gives us no answers, further than confirming, she had a soul as a vengeance demon. That leaves us free, to speculate.....

flow

Stoney
10-02-18, 06:06 AM
I didn't remember the line from D'Hoffryn, thanks for that flow. It just makes the most sense against how she behaves before/after each change that it is consistently there, so I still go with the assumption her human soul is never lost/regained. Her choice to try to enact vengeance in the first place was made with a soul, which is why I liken it to Faith's arc. I don't see why she would gain a different type of soul as such when she is made into a demon when the one she had wasn't stopping her wish to take vengeance in the first place. As you say, you can speculate on what affect becoming a demon has on the soul, but it doesn't seem to need to be different. Perhaps once a demon it does help keep her conscience dulled? But the main thing is that she isn't without one. As I said before her story isn't like the vamps but Faith's, where rather than the loss/lack of a soul it's all about the matter of choice in the same way bad/evil humans make. When she became human again she wasn't beset with guilt, her soul wasn't a weight on her as she realised what she'd done. She didn't really feel it completely in that sense until she tried to return to vengeance and found she'd changed. Anya's lack of guilt is always a bit brushed over prior to S7.