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GoSpuffy
29-01-18, 03:46 AM
You know the scenario. No, they don't have weapons. I vote cavemen. Sure they're less intelligent but they're strong and fight for survival every day. The astronauts would win at math but they'd take a beating by those cavemen.

Priceless
29-01-18, 08:58 AM
Agree with you GoSpuffy, without weapons cavemen would win because they are used to fighting for survival. The astronauts would be fitter and possibly stronger, but I think they'd be a bit squeamish when it comes to bashing someone's head in :D

TriBel
29-01-18, 11:14 AM
Without weapons, I'm inclined to go for cavemen - as you both say, it's probable their natural survival instincts would be more sharply honed and they might be prepared to take a life more readily than an astronaut.That said, they'll only have rudimentary communication skills and the astronauts might be better equipped to work as a team (at what stage of development are the Cavemen). Much depends on who the astronauts are (are they scientists, engineers, military personnel, or are they people with far more money than sense merely along for the ride?). How old are they? The life expectancy for a caveman was only 30-35 - are they cavemen in their prime (what is their prime?). How isolated have they been? There's a difference between fighting a man and fighting a sabre-toothed tiger. Are the cavemen Neanderthals or Homo Sapiens? How long does the fight last (apparently cave men would be better equipped for power - the astronauts for endurance https://www.livescience.com/2747-caveman-modern-human-win-olympic-gold.html .) LOL! Where are the cave-women in this scenario? Do we have division of labour? *Grumble, Grumble* I don't know - I wish people would stop asking hard questions. :confused3:

TimeTravellingBunny
29-01-18, 12:50 PM
Without weapons, I'm inclined to go for cavemen - as you both say, it's probable their natural survival instincts would be more sharply honed and they might be prepared to take a life more readily than an astronaut.That said, they'll only have rudimentary communication skills and the astronauts might be better equipped to work as a team (at what stage of development are the Cavemen). Much depends on who the astronauts are (are they scientists, engineers, military personnel, or are they people with far more money than sense merely along for the ride?). How old are they? The life expectancy for a caveman was only 30-35 - are they cavemen in their prime (what is their prime?). How isolated have they been? There's a difference between fighting a man and fighting a sabre-toothed tiger. Are the cavemen Neanderthals or Homo Sapiens? How long does the fight last (apparently cave men would be better equipped for power - the astronauts for endurance https://www.livescience.com/2747-caveman-modern-human-win-olympic-gold.html .) LOL! Where are the cave-women in this scenario? Do we have division of labour? *Grumble, Grumble* I don't know - I wish people would stop asking hard questions. :confused3:

By life expectancy, you mean average life span? That most likely means simply that a lot of infants and children died (the same reason why average life span was low up until relatively recent human history), so their prime was probably not that different from what it would be today. Humans haven't changed much in the biological sense since the cavemen days (with the caveat that modern medicine can cure and prevent many more diseases).

TriBel
29-01-18, 01:30 PM
By life expectancy, you mean average life span? That most likely means simply that a lot of infants and children died (the same reason why average life span was low up until relatively recent human history), so their prime was probably not that different from what it would be today. Humans haven't changed much in the biological sense since the cavemen days (with the caveat that modern medicine can cure and prevent many more diseases).

Life expectancy according to this https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-think-neandertal/201311/the-truth-about-the-caveman-diet TBH, I don't know why I bothered to look it up - procrastination as usual I suppose! It was just a quick google.

flow
29-01-18, 10:26 PM
I assume, that hand to hand combat is not a necessary part of the training of an astronaut. They probably learn, how to cope with zero gravity, how to repair a space ship and maybe, how to find water on a newly discorvered planet. And their ethics probably get in their way too, in a fight with the cavemen. Prime directive and that stuff, you know.

On the other hand, the cavemen are trained, fit, experienced in fighting mammuts and other cavemen and have no scruples at all.

Of course they will win :-)

flow

flow

Stoney
30-01-18, 12:00 PM
I want to know context, more about the environment before placing a bet. What are the variables? Are we picking up a caveman and an astronaut and dropping them into the middle of the desert, a bare room, or down town New York? :lol: If they are average examples for height/skill/strength etc and are put into an entirely bare landscape and set against each other like in a cockfight then, weaponless, I'd expect the caveman to be more able to fight/kill in those circumstances. But anywhere that some strategic thinking could give an advantage, the odds might swing more to the astronaut. :xd

GoSpuffy
04-02-18, 06:08 PM
https://youtu.be/lSG2yYBXtoY

Well that certainly clears things up.

Fool for Buffy
04-02-18, 06:28 PM
Cavemen win. Cavemen always win. Dying women don't lie.

TriBel
04-02-18, 09:14 PM
I want to know context, more about the environment before placing a bet. What are the variables? Are we picking up a caveman and an astronaut and dropping them into the middle of the desert, a bare room, or down town New York? :lol: If they are average examples for height/skill/strength etc and are put into an entirely bare landscape and set against each other like in a cockfight then, weaponless, I'd expect the caveman to be more able to fight/kill in those circumstances. But anywhere that some strategic thinking could give an advantage, the odds might swing more to the astronaut. :xd

LOL! By the time you've finished controlling all the variables the cavemen will have evolved enough to be running a tourist shuttle service to Mars!

- - - Updated - - -


Cavemen win. Cavemen always win. Dying women don't lie.

This comment wins both the argument and the internet. :)

GoSpuffy
05-07-18, 10:49 PM
https://youtu.be/oY56K3WIzSs

bespangled
06-07-18, 01:11 AM
By life expectancy, you mean average life span? That most likely means simply that a lot of infants and children died (the same reason why average life span was low up until relatively recent human history), so their prime was probably not that different from what it would be today. Humans haven't changed much in the biological sense since the cavemen days (with the caveat that modern medicine can cure and prevent many more diseases).


Life expectancy according to this https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-think-neandertal/201311/the-truth-about-the-caveman-diet TBH, I don't know why I bothered to look it up - procrastination as usual I suppose! It was just a quick google.

The article is right on a lot of things - there really is no such thing as cavemen in history. But given that the term men is used, I think we need to go with homo sapiens and not neanderthals. If nothing else the anthropological record is sketchy with neanderthal.

Average life span is always an average since it's impossible to calculate individual lifespan for everyone who dies even now. To get an average you add up a sum and then divide it. The data needed in this list is how many people are being followed (divider) and ages when people were at most risk of dying (to reach the sum). Even today the most critical times are infancy and early childhood - look at 3rd world and refugee population. Kids also died of accidents, infections, and diseases in larger numbers - things that we can now treat - which brings down that average. That means there are a lot of small numbers in the sum data. Next critical time for individuals is childbirth and war in modern times - ancient times would include hunting rather than war which all able bodied adults took part in. Those who survived past the critical times could live to a very ripe old age. In other words people didn't drop dead at 35, which is how too many people interpret average life span. 35 would also not feature in mean, or median.

Planet of the Apes is about...apes. Apes with technology.

Plural - cavemen and astronauts. Any modern technology would be a weapon. This is a build your own weapons scenario.

And Fred was right. Cavemen did win. All the technology of W&H was not able to prevail against ancient power. Fred died.

Ebdim9th
06-07-18, 10:52 PM
Although I thought it a bit convenient that Illyria's whole idea was to return in a human vessel, yet she/it didn't possess the ability to hold that vessel together. And for that matter, why didn't the gun explode, or implode in the process? And if it was possible to funnel it into that pocket universe fast enough, why couldn't they restore portions of the power to her, not enough to re-create the problem they were solving, so she could handily kick Hamilton's azz and that of the giants and whatnot crawling up from hell in that alleyway. Technology, like magick and evil, never stays buried for long ....

GoSpuffy
12-06-19, 01:48 AM
In my mind Tom cruise is a caveman and Justin Bieber is an astronaut so the cavemen take it again:

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/amp/2019/06/10/justin-bieber-tom-cruise-fight-supernatural-jared-padalecki-resp/

BtVS fan
12-06-19, 07:42 AM
In my mind Tom cruise is a caveman and Justin Bieber is an astronaut so the cavemen take it again:

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/amp/2019/06/10/justin-bieber-tom-cruise-fight-supernatural-jared-padalecki-resp/

Tom a 56 year old caveman Cruise beating Justin the 25 yr old astronaut hmm let me jump on the couch while I think about that one ;) otoh human beings were much smaller back then so at least we got the height right :p

TriBel
12-06-19, 02:19 PM
In my mind Tom cruise is a caveman and Justin Bieber is an astronaut so the cavemen take it again:

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/amp/2019/06/10/justin-bieber-tom-cruise-fight-supernatural-jared-padalecki-resp/

In my mind, that's a draw and they kill each other. :p