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Priceless
06-01-18, 04:06 PM
Hope having a random thread is okay? Sometimes you can be watching an episode and just want to mention something you've noticed or a sudden inconsequential thought, well here is the place to post.

I'm watching Touched and I just love how happy Spike is to tell Buffy that she was right about Caleb protecting something at the vineyard. He's pleased with himself for figuring it out and he's also trying to cheer Buffy up and it's so nice to see him happy

Stoney
07-01-18, 05:38 AM
I like the idea of a random thread where you can just post a random thought. If someone then wants to turn something they read here into a discussion/comment on it more widely, then they can create a specific thread out of the discussion point that arises from what you have said in order to do that. So hopefully it won't be something that is nixed in moderation terms. :biggrin1:

Priceless
07-01-18, 12:52 PM
I like the idea of a random thread where you can just post a random thought. If someone then wants to turn something they read here into a discussion/comment on it more widely, then they can create a specific thread out of the discussion point that arises from what you have said in order to do that. So hopefully it won't be something that is nixed in moderation terms. :biggrin1:

Yes it would be great if other threads grew out of this one, but I totally understand if the moderators feel it's not appropriate :)

betta
07-01-18, 04:03 PM
Potential

AMANDA: I feel like people think I'm weird, and so they pick on me. But I might be—weird.
BUFFY: Amanda, why do you think that you're weird?
AMANDA: One of the boys who picks on me, I kind of—See, if a guy picks on you, is it weird to think he's cute?
BUFFY: Oh...
AMANDA: It's just, the last few times I've seen him, I've wanted to, you know, pick on him... extra. More.
BUFFY: Uh-huh.
AMANDA: The thing is, I can't tell. My mom says when a guy teases you, it means he likes you.
BUFFY: Sometimes that's true.
AMANDA: Is it weird? We're mean to each other, and we like each other.
BUFFY: Well, it depends. Sometimes that's how people relate. Being mean to each other. Even mortal enemies— Then with the— And that leads to no good, absolutely no good. And much confusion. A-and then it's over. Absolutely, seriously, definitely over. And that's confusing too. The over part. Which it is. Over! So, maybe.

First Date

BUFFY: Why does everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?


Why is that so, Buffy? :rolleyes:

Stoney
09-01-18, 11:27 AM
I wasn't keen on Ted when I first watched it but on rewatches I've come to really love John Ritter's performance. The quality of the casting is a big part of why BtVS is so good.

Priceless
09-01-18, 02:36 PM
I wasn't keen on Ted when I first watched it but on rewatches I've come to really love John Ritter's performance. The quality of the casting is a big part of why BtVS is so good.

I've always been a fan of that episode, and Ritter is great in it:)

My random thought is that I'm listening to a Buffy podcast and new viewers are saying how terrible The Puppet Show is, and I just want to say I love that episode and if the new viewers fall in love with the show and rewatch it a few times, they too will come to love all those silly Season 1 eps :D

flow
09-01-18, 04:15 PM
Yes, Ted is really creepy !

I watched Still Pretty on YouTube yesterday and Lani pointed out, that Spike suddenly stands in Buffys living room in Beneath You.

We have seen before, that the kitchen door is obviously never locked, because he sometimes enters though the kitchen door in season 6. But in Beneath You he must have come through the front door without ringing the door bell or knocking.

Do you think, he has got a key ? I actually considered, that he might have gotten one in the summer between season 5 and season 6, when he was often looking after Dawn, but that he kept it all through season 6 and his journey to Africa and back seems a bit far fetched.

flow

Stoney
09-01-18, 05:43 PM
I just assumed the front door wasn't locked or that he came in from the kitchen. I've never given it thought but I doubt very much that he would have ever been given a key to Revello in S5-6.

Priceless
09-01-18, 06:13 PM
I'm with Stoney and just thought he came through the kitchen. Why do you think he had to come through the front door flow?

TriBel
09-01-18, 06:27 PM
That's a strange scene. Does he come through the front door or does he simply acknowledge the concept of "door" (as in a door) when he says "I'll go out that door and you can lock it behind me with any spell you like". Willow can't get access through the FD in the next episode. It's also the door Buffy motions to in Get it Done. We've had conversations about doors in this season before. I couldn't figure out what was between them when they talked in the foyer: was it a mirror?

Priceless
09-01-18, 07:05 PM
That's a strange scene. Does he come through the front door or does he simply acknowledge the concept of "door" (as in a door) when he says "I'll go out that door and you can lock it behind me with any spell you like". Willow can't get access through the FD in the next episode. It's also the door Buffy motions to in Get it Done. We've had conversations about doors in this season before. I couldn't figure out what was between them when they talked in the foyer: was it a mirror?

It's the glass that's to the right of the front door that's between them I think. There is a stand with a mirror above it just to the left of Buffy.

- - - Updated - - -

Randon thought, I've just noticed I'm a Bronze Party Goer, yay me!

flow
09-01-18, 07:14 PM
He is very suddenly standing between the living room and the foyer or entrance hall. Had he come in through the front door, it would have been just one step for him, to stand, where he is standing. He could also have come through the kitchen, but he would have had to walk through the kitchen, the dining room and the foyer, to get, where he is standing. I was just assuming, he could not do this without anybody noticing it.

flow

Priceless
09-01-18, 07:17 PM
He is very suddenly standing between the living room and the foyer or entrance hall. Had he come in through the front door, it would have been just one step for him, to stand, where he is standing. He could also have come through the kitchen, but he would have had to walk through the kitchen, the dining room and the foyer, to get, where he is standing. I was just assuming, he could not do this without anybody noticing it.

flow

He definitely just appears, and in that blue t-shirt. It's odd, but maybe that's what they were going for, to show he was different, but yes it is odd

Stoney
09-01-18, 11:25 PM
He's a vamp still, I'm sure he can employ a bit of stealth in his entrance. I think it makes sense perhaps if you think of him feeling uncertain about how to approach. He isn't going to come in and call out a hello, he doesn't want to knock and risk being refused/shut out, but doesn't want to be loud/aggressive, so I can see why he'd opt to just step forward. But then what. And it's awkward because it's unavoidably awkward. He can't truly try to present as if nothing is wrong in him being there. Obviously his new costume doesn't work, the whole approach doesn't work, he can't negotiate it that way, as if there's nothing significant there to negotiate. :confused3:

GoSpuffy
10-01-18, 12:15 AM
I always felt this was symbolic of the change he'd gone through and the difference the soul makes. The kitchen entrance was for the workman, the associate of S6. Sneaking out basement being caught where he wasn't to be was the S5 frenemie. S7 coming through the front door like a revered guest? That's a champion who won a nice bright shiny soul. The front door signifies an upgrade of status to me.

vampmogs
10-01-18, 08:24 AM
Spike's used the front door in S6. He leaves through the front door in Bargaining I, Afterlife, All the Way and Older and Far Away and he enters through the front door in Afterlife.

Stoney
10-01-18, 10:22 AM
Afterlife, that's it!! I know Buffy let him back in through the front door in The Gift, which was symbolic for him being allowed some role in the group and I think that is where the front door is significant rather than him gaining his soul (with it reversing him having been specifically shut out in Crush). But I knew I could remember seeing him come in at a rush when he was unsouled without someone else. I can't believe I didn't connect it to him coming looking for Dawn, especially having watched/reviewed AL so recently, duh! With all these smilies where is my forehead-slapping-moment one!? :biggrin1:

Priceless
10-01-18, 12:17 PM
I finally got my first library edition of the comics. It wasn't too expensive, but it's so lovely. Does everyone else have the library editions or have I wasted my money or is there a better edition I should have got?

Silver1
10-01-18, 12:25 PM
I don't collect them anymore really. I prefer them on a digital format so they don't take up anymore room.

Stoney
10-01-18, 12:47 PM
I think the library editions are different to the trade paperbacks, but I'm not sure how??

Priceless
10-01-18, 12:51 PM
I think the library editions are different to the trade paperbacks, but I'm not sure how??

Well I have the trade paperbacks, but the library edition I have is for paperbacks I've lent out (which is why I ordered that one first) so I can't check what the differences are. Does anyone else know?

betta
10-01-18, 04:36 PM
Library Editions are bigger, heavier and much more beautiful! I have just one, Angel & Faith S9, Volume 2.

TPBs come in more volumes - 5 for Buffy S9, for instance, while there are only 3 Library Editions volumes; and the LEs include the mini Willow: Wonderland. So, if you collect the TPBs for S9, you'll have to buy the Willow mini separately.

And S10 doesn't have Library Editions... yet...

I bought the TPBs for S8 and S9 years ago (and S10 and S11 more recently), and I would do the same today, because they are easier to handle.

TriBel
10-01-18, 06:54 PM
Does everyone else have the library editions or have I wasted my money or is there a better edition I should have got?

I've got all the library editions (4 S8; 3 S9; 3 A&F9 plus Tales of the Slayers/Vampires).:) I'll get the others if they bring them out. I like them - and TBH, they're prettier than the TPB. Did you get the latest version (with just 2 editions in the series)?


I prefer them on a digital format so they don't take up anymore room. That's the sensible option - me and sensible make poor bed-fellows. I buy things I really need (read really, really want) in hard copy. Digital is for "Hmmm...looks interesting - don't need it but I'd better get it because I might need it/want it one day" purchases. Nothing requires reading - it's just a case of having. :)

Priceless
10-01-18, 07:13 PM
I've got all the library editions (4 S8; 3 S9; 3 A&F9 plus Tales of the Slayers/Vampires). I'll get the others if they bring them out. I like them - and TBH, they're prettier than the TPB. Did you get the latest version (with just 2 editions in the series)?

It was you saying how great they were that persuaded me to get the library editions. The first one I've got is S9 Book Volume 2 which has Guarded, Billy The Vampire Slayer Parts 1&2, and Willow:Wonderland, none of which are anywhere near my favourite arcs. It does look absolutely gorgeous though :)

Stoney
10-01-18, 09:57 PM
I was never really sure what the difference was with the library editions. Presumably they are a bit more expensive. I buy the hard copies as my default setting. I like to have and hold the printed copies. I've got lots of BtVS books that I haven't read yet because owning them was the priority. When it comes to the canon seasons I will get the hard copies of them all and vary in getting the individual issues and the TPBs (Trades for S8, individual for S9 of BtVS & AtS, trades for S10, individual for S11 of BtVS but trades for Angel :confused3:). And then for BtVS 9/10/11 (and Angel S9 and 10) I have both the digital as well as the hard copies. Basically because I won't wait the five+ days it takes for the hard copy to arrive. Heck, I normally don't clear two hours past release before I've read the digital copies. :p. Also I like to be able to check things quickly whilst sat at my computer rather than having to get up and fetch the hard copy (lazy!).

Priceless
10-01-18, 10:07 PM
The library copies are so beautiful I'm not sure I will ever read them, they're too nice to touch so I'll just end up looking at them :D

Stoney
10-01-18, 10:07 PM
Well, the outside of them at least. :p

TriBel
11-01-18, 12:56 AM
They've got book-marks in them! Little ribbons! Sign of quality - a little ribbon. Actually, mine have also got lots of post-its sticking out but at least I haven't scribbled in them!

betta
11-01-18, 04:58 PM
I finally got my first library edition of the comics. It wasn't too expensive, but it's so lovely. Does everyone else have the library editions or have I wasted my money or is there a better edition I should have got?

They are gorgeous, and if you don't mind the size and weight, go for it!

- - - Updated - - -


I was never really sure what the difference was with the library editions. Presumably they are a bit more expensive. I buy the hard copies as my default setting. I like to have and hold the printed copies. I've got lots of BtVS books that I haven't read yet because owning them was the priority. When it comes to the canon seasons I will get the hard copies of them all and vary in getting the individual issues and the TPBs (Trades for S8, individual for S9 of BtVS & AtS, trades for S10, individual for S11 of BtVS but trades for Angel :confused3:). And then for BtVS 9/10/11 (and Angel S9 and 10) I have both the digital as well as the hard copies. Basically because I won't wait the five+ days it takes for the hard copy to arrive. Heck, I normally don't clear two hours past release before I've read the digital copies. :p. Also I like to be able to check things quickly whilst sat at my computer rather than having to get up and fetch the hard copy (lazy!).

I also have to have hard copies, but, for now, I am giving up the monthly issues for Giles (and S12, if it is the case). They take up to 2 months to arrive here, so I don't see the point to get them anymore (it used to be only 15-20 days). But I intend to buy the TPBs - and I hope Giles will have at least one volume.

Priceless
11-01-18, 07:11 PM
Finished my re-watch and am not trying to psych myself up to start Season 8. It's my least favourite season and I've been putting it off :(

Stoney
11-01-18, 08:07 PM
Have you watched AtS as well?

Priceless
11-01-18, 08:19 PM
No, not season 5, but I only finished watching the whole show a month ago. I know if I am doing a proper full re-watch/read I should really watch the whole of AtS again, but I just cannot face it. I'm not in the mood for Angel right now :lol: Do you think I should watch S5 before S8?

a thing of evil
11-01-18, 09:04 PM
Re-reading season 8 is suffering.

OK, there are highlights, the good parts are pretty good, dialog is excellent, it looks nice etc but there is just SO. MUCH. FILLER. Stupid one-shots, bullshit plot lines that go nowhere and have no reason to exist, entire arcs consisting of mostly filler. Who OK'd this? What was the editor doing? Or, right, he was co-writing that trash. :bleh::bleh::bleh:

And the whole thing is, like, 1200(!) pages long ( what were they thinking?! https://abload.de/img/uberwillowgml8y.gif (http://abload.de/image.php?img=uberwillowgml8y.gif)https://abload.de/img/uberwillowgml8y.gif (http://abload.de/image.php?img=uberwillowgml8y.gif)https://abload.de/img/uberwillowgml8y.gif (http://abload.de/image.php?img=uberwillowgml8y.gif)) so you can't just power through it in a day or two. It's like they did on purpose!

flow
11-01-18, 09:19 PM
I have a random thought, that is related to AtS.

We all know, that neither Angel nor Spike ever called Buffy during season 5 and neither did she call Angel (not knowing Spike was back, she obviously had no reason to call him) or visit him.

Well, maybe Buffy was grieving so hard, that she had no time left for Angel. And maybe Angel was pissed off, that Buffy had given him the - what did he call it ? Curveball ? - for Spike, that he didn`t want to tell her, Spike was back. And Spike definitely was being silly and insecure and completely off his birds, that was why he never called her himself. It is really difficult, but I can somehow accept that.

But no one ever called Faith. And never once did Faith call, or visit them.

She was close to Angel. They trusted each other. They had a bond. Why did she never get in touch with him ?

She knew Fred, Why did no one tell her about her death ? Why didn`t Fred even before that call her and tell her, Spike was alive ? Fred knew, that they had been fighting together in the hellmouth. Wouldn`t it have been the most natural thing, to call and say "Guess, who showed up?" Same goes for Willow. Fred and Willow were friends. Fred knew, Spike and Willow had been at least allies, if not even friends. But even if she wouldn`t call explicitly, to talk aboout Spike, why did they never talk again at all ?

Why did Faith never visit Cordy, while she was still in hospital in a coma in season 5 ? Hey, coma-comrades here. Faith would have had so much to tell Cordy. Why did no one tell Faith, Cordy was dead ?

Why did no one call Faith, when they thought Angel had gone evil again ? Why did nobody call Faith and ask her to join them in taking down the circle of the Black Thorne ? It would have been just her kind of fight, she would have loved to join.

I know, that Eliza Dushku had signed somewhere else and couldn`t actually make an appearance on AtS season 5. But they could have faked a telephone call. or a letter, an email, a text....whatever. or they could have provided us with some Explanation, maybe that Faith had temporarily gone back to jail or gone back into a coma or gone to Timbuktoo...

flow

Priceless
11-01-18, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=a thing of evil;712338]Re-reading season 8 is suffering.

OK, there are highlights, the good parts are pretty good, dialog is excellent, it looks nice etc but there is just SO. MUCH. FILLER. Stupid one-shots, bullshit plot lines that go nowhere and have no reason to exist, entire arcs consisting of mostly filler. Who OK'd this? What was the editor doing? Or, right, he was co-writing that trash. :bleh::bleh::bleh:

:roll: Well you've put me right off now lol. It's not good, I'll give you that, but I don't remember it being completely terrible. I've read it twice and it was better second time around. Maybe third time will be the charm and I'll come to love it. I'll keep you informed :D

Stoney
11-01-18, 10:15 PM
No, not season 5, but I only finished watching the whole show a month ago. I know if I am doing a proper full re-watch/read I should really watch the whole of AtS again, but I just cannot face it. I'm not in the mood for Angel right now :lol: Do you think I should watch S5 before S8?

Of course you watched it very recently, I forgot about that. Personally, when I eventually get to the end of my current main rewatch (I've started a second rewatch overlapping my rewatch here!! :blink:), where I'm watching BtVS and the AtS sister episodes, I'm intending to watch AtS 5 then read AtF 1-17, inc Spike AtF (not convinced I'll read the IDW non-Joss that came after #17, but I might) before reading S8. I'll probably read the Spike 8 towards the end of S8 before he arrives too. I think (but I haven't done this before yet to check!), that it'll be interesting for following the Angel/Spike sides towards S8 better, to see their journeys leading up to it too.

Obviously I'm interested in considering what Spike is getting up to before he appears at the end of the season because hey, favourite character and all. :biggrin1: (I only take the rough idea of him being off with a group from the Spike 8, it doesn't have Joss' name to it and has some serious weaknesses that bug me too much to take the details of it for personal canon, but it does give us the bugship intro which is from Joss and canon, so it's worth including for that lead in alone). Angel is a top character for me too, although I know you don't have the same pov for him so you may not want to look specifically at Angel's path too. But considering his role in S8, I decided I wanted to see all that came before when I next read it. :)


I have a random thought, that is related to AtS.

In relation to not letting Buffy know about Spike, yeah it was somewhat thoughtless but the jealousy and insecurity Angel felt wasn't exactly being hidden. He also had the whole inner doubts over what he was doing at W&H too and probably didn't want to open a direct dialogue and end up with that getting quizzed either. The others probably just didn't want to get in the middle of the whole thing and Spike never tried to get someone to contact anyone because he wasn't sure what he wanted, he was so unsettled. I can see that he may have just wanted to avoid it when he wasn't sure he'd ever be anything more than a ghost and then once he was corporeal it's all on him that he's opting to hold back of course.

I think there are always these kinds of holes in the stories because of who they do or don't want within the cast. It plays in the comics too. Why aren't we seeing Gunn or Connor more? Where has Alastair gone to? Why hasn't anyone contacted Spike about Fred being back? Why didn't we see Angel calling Fred's parents? Where has Oz gone and why wasn't he trying to touch base to make sure Buffy and everyone were alright this season when the camps were being set up?

There will always be some potential inclusions that are logical that don't happen. I suppose mostly because they don't need the characters or because they just have too much going on to want to try and weave in another person. We can perhaps assume that anything of significance that it is hard to believe wouldn't have been discussed and passed on happened off screen.

Priceless
11-01-18, 10:31 PM
Of course you watched it very recently, I forgot about that. Personally, when I eventually get to the end of my current main rewatch (I've started a second rewatch overlapping my rewatch here!! ), where I'm watching BtVS and the AtS sister episodes, I'm intending to watch AtS 5 then read AtF 1-17, inc Spike AtF (not convinced I'll read the IDW non-Joss that came after #17, but I might) before reading S8. I'll probably read the Spike 8 towards the end of S8 before he arrives too. I think (but I haven't done this before yet to check!), that it'll be interesting for following the Angel/Spike sides towards S8 better, to see their journeys leading up to it too

How long will this take you Stoney? I just don't have time to watch/read everything. I may rush through AtS S5 just because i haven't read the comics in a quite a while and I'm actually excited to get to them, while AtS doesn't excite me as much. Do you know, for the life of me I cannot remember how Spike came across the bug ship!

GoSpuffy
11-01-18, 10:35 PM
Finished my re-watch and am not trying to psych myself up to start Season 8. It's my least favourite season and I've been putting it off :(

I'm willing to do a S8 rewatch with you. I own volume 1 in digital copies. I could probably hunt up the rest. Want a partner?

Priceless
11-01-18, 10:41 PM
I'm willing to do a S8 rewatch with you. I own volume 1 in digital copies. I could probably hunt up the rest. Want a partner?

Yes! That would be great GoSpuffy, shall we start a thread? When would you like to begin?:happydance:

Stoney
11-01-18, 10:45 PM
How long will this take you Stoney?

An absolute age most likely! :lol: The rewatch here is taking an exceptionally long time. But I'm hoping we'll get going again on S6 any time now and I'm likely to suggest we change the approach/timescales for S7. I would hope that we will finish the series before my second rewatch gets there (as I'm only on S2 What's My Line on that one at the moment). There's always the chance that we'll watch/read/discuss together further if people are interested, but it'll take longer than just whizzing through on my own. You'll probably be considering your next rewatch/reread by then!

I don't remember the bug ship storyline very well either. Wolfram and Hart stole the main ship I think it was and Spike helped the bugs keep the smaller ship. That aspect is all a bit scrambled in my head which is why I definitely want to reread those for the bugship intro before Spike turns up in S8. :)

betta
11-01-18, 11:44 PM
How long will this take you Stoney? I just don't have time to watch/read everything. I may rush through AtS S5 just because i haven't read the comics in a quite a while and I'm actually excited to get to them, while AtS doesn't excite me as much. Do you know, for the life of me I cannot remember how Spike came across the bug ship!

You have to read the Spike Complete Series for the bug ship! Or at least, the final chapter.

I like S8; what happened in my most recent reread (last year) is that I got very focused on Angel - and really, his crimes (in detail here (https://gite63.tumblr.com/post/163971166191/btvs-s8-the-twilight-crimes-part-1)) as Twilight were many and terrible; and if when I read S8 for the first time I got so shocked by Angel's behavior that I didn't want to accept he was capable of doing all that, now I understand it was very in character, actually; I wrote about it here (https://gite63.tumblr.com/post/163969488676/btvs-s8-angel-is-twilight-twilight-is-angel).

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:roll: Well you've put me right off now lol. It's not good, I'll give you that, but I don't remember it being completely terrible. I've read it twice and it was better second time around. Maybe third time will be the charm and I'll come to love it. I'll keep you informed :D

You should read!

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Yes! That would be great GoSpuffy, shall we start a thread?

Yes, you should!

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In relation to not letting Buffy know about Spike, yeah it was somewhat thoughtless but the jealousy and insecurity Angel felt wasn't exactly being hidden.

Why Angel didn't get shocked when he smelled Spike on Buffy? Why he didn't get surprised about Spike having a soul? How did Angel know that Spike had died on the Hellmouth and that Buffy was in Europe? And why he didn't tell anyone that Spike had died to save the world and had a soul (not even to Wesley)?

GoSpuffy
12-01-18, 12:01 AM
Yes! That would be great GoSpuffy, shall we start a thread? When would you like to begin?:happydance:

You start the thread while I read episode one. Ready.......Set.......GO!

Stoney
12-01-18, 05:08 AM
Why Angel didn't get shocked when he smelled Spike on Buffy? Why he didn't get surprised about Spike having a soul? How did Angel know that Spike had died on the Hellmouth and that Buffy was in Europe? And why he didn't tell anyone that Spike had died to save the world and had a soul (not even to Wesley)?

Sorry I don't understand what you mean with these points. Are you talking about things that Angel was hiding? I was meaning that Angel acting in jealousy towards Spike over Buffy wasn't a hidden factor from the viewer, we could see that insecurity and jealousy was working both ways for the two vamps in AtS 5.


Yes! That would be great GoSpuffy, shall we start a thread?


You start the thread while I read episode one. Ready.......Set.......GO!

I just thought I'd point out that there is a comics section and a sub section for discussing S8 if you want to start a thread for rereading together - here (http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?121-Older-Comic-Discussions). I'm sorry, it is just the anal part of me that will start twitching if it doesn't go in the right place. :nerd:

GoSpuffy
12-01-18, 05:58 AM
Sorry I don't understand what you mean with these points. Are you talking about things that Angel was hiding? I was meaning that Angel acting in jealousy towards Spike over Buffy wasn't a hidden factor from the viewer, we could see that insecurity and jealousy was working both ways for the two vamps in AtS 5.





I just thought I'd point out that there is a comics section and a sub section for discussing S8 if you want to start a thread for rereading together - here (http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?121-Older-Comic-Discussions). I'm sorry, it is just the anal part of me that will start twitching if it doesn't go in the right place. :nerd:

Im sure we frequently make you feel like you're herding kittens. Just don't take us to any of your poker games. We'll be good! We promise!!

Priceless
12-01-18, 08:45 AM
You have to read the Spike Complete Series for the bug ship! Or at least, the final chapter.


Thanks Betta. I'm sure I've read these a long time ago but can't remember them :confused: Just gone onto Ebay and bought the hardbacks second hand :D

You're thoughts on Angel and his crimes as Twilight are really interesting and you make some great points. I've never focused on Angel, and it's really been S11 when I've really felt I might have a grasp on his personality and reasoning for what he does.

betta
12-01-18, 01:59 PM
Sorry I don't understand what you mean with these points. Are you talking about things that Angel was hiding? I was meaning that Angel acting in jealousy towards Spike over Buffy wasn't a hidden factor from the viewer, we could see that insecurity and jealousy was working both ways for the two vamps in AtS 5.

They were just random thoughts; however the fact that Angel didn't tell anyone in LA that Spike had a soul and died helping Buffy could be because he felt jealous and insecure towards his grandson... if I remember well, Wesley and Fred were very surprised - and a little angry - about not having been told the news.

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I just thought I'd point out that there is a comics section and a sub section for discussing S8 if you want to start a thread for rereading together - here (http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?121-Older-Comic-Discussions). I'm sorry, it is just the anal part of me that will start twitching if it doesn't go in the right place. :nerd:

I'm with you, it bothers me a little if the thingy isn't in the right place...

Stoney
12-01-18, 03:29 PM
I'm with you, it bothers me a little if the thingy isn't in the right place...

Yep, I just nearly coughed coffee all over the laptop. :lol:

TriBel
12-01-18, 07:28 PM
LOL! Maybe I'm just a really negative person but I always presumed Angel's very evasive behaviour in AtS5 was because he was jealous of Spike. In fact, David Fury says as much in an interview.


I got so shocked by Angel's behavior that I didn't want to accept he was capable of doing all that, now I understand it was very in character, actually; I wrote about it here. Again - maybe I'm a cynic but I had no problem accepting Twilight as a logical extension of Angel. In fact, much of it can be inferred from his relationship with his father. And the "Spike" references are brilliant - that's Whedon being self-reflexive. I haven't had time to read all your thoughts on Twilight but I will.

Sigh...I'm worried now that I'm a bad person who automatically thinks the worst of people. ohwell:


I'm sorry, it is just the anal part of me that will start twitching if it doesn't go in the right place.

Thanks for that image Stoney. :thud:There's absolutely no response I could make that won't get me thrown off this board! I'm not thinking the worst of you but I am smiling. :lol:

Priceless
12-01-18, 09:20 PM
I'm half watching an old episode of The Big Bang Theory and Sheldon just said that something was such a true mark of quality it should just say directed by Joss Whedon, it made me smile :D

Silver1
12-01-18, 09:56 PM
https://78.media.tumblr.com/3ae21a86064e9b46a9a1f36d80faa503/tumblr_inline_nicm2kQT4w1rjpm8m.gif

TriBel
12-01-18, 10:26 PM
I'm re-reading S8, finishing my rewatch of Potentials and then plan to watch Rosemary's Baby.:err: God knows what my unconscious will do to the mix. Thankfully, I'm one of those people who doesn't recall dreams.

GoSpuffy
12-01-18, 10:35 PM
I'm re-reading S8, finishing my rewatch of Potentials and then plan to watch Rosemary's Baby.:err: God knows what my unconscious will do to the mix. Thankfully, I'm one of those people who doesn't recall dreams.

You need to join Priceless and me on our S8 thread! I'm nearing the end of my supernatural rewatch. I've loved it, don't get me wrong, those Winchesters are great but I feel like I've been watching this forever! lol I have been when I think about it. Can you imagine if there were 13 seasons of Buffy? That would be so great!! (TV seasons that is)

Priceless
12-01-18, 11:05 PM
Silver1 does that mean anyone who watches Buffy is a nerd? :D

TriBel you should post your thoughts on S8 in GoSpuffy and my re-read thread. I've not actually started yet, I wanted to finish Pet, which I have just done and it was brilliant.

Supernatural is great GoSpuffy, but it's the same story over and over again, though I could watch Dean read the telephone directory so I'm not complaining. And yes I'd have loved 13+ Buffy series

Priceless
14-01-18, 03:31 PM
On my first reading, I hated S8, on my second I liked it a bit, now on my third reading I am really enjoying it :)

Silver1
14-01-18, 05:02 PM
What made you change your opinion on it? I'm genuinely curious.

GoSpuffy
14-01-18, 05:49 PM
I read S8&9 all out of order and mixed together just before S10 was released. I then walked away from trying to find those issues and just joined in on S10. So some of what I know comes from what I've heard people say and some comes from my disjointed read. I'm really excited about the S8 read thread because I'm finally going to read it all in the right order!

Priceless
14-01-18, 05:58 PM
I hadn't read any comics since I was a kid, so the medium was new to me and I read it in a rush and didn't pick up on the nuances or take enough note of the art. I was disappointed in the story and because it didn't give me the Spike/Spuffy I wanted, I disparaged the whole comic. But on the second and third reads, I'm used to the comics, and I know I'll eventually get Spuffy in later seasons, so I can concentrate more on what I have got, and there is some really good stuff in there.

Of course S8 has it's problems and it lost me on some of it's story lines; giant goddesses, Angel/Twilight, Buffy flying, submarines, Tibet, f***king a world into existence . . . it got too big, it's not the characterful little show I loved. But on re-read I know what to expect so it isn't so bad, and on each re-read the good stuff gets better and the bad stuff fades.

Talking to other fans about it has changed my opinions a lot too. I find most fans like S8, and that made me approach it differently and give it more a chance, and start to look for what others saw.

Bet you wished you'd never asked 'eh? :lol: What are your opinions of S8 and the comics in general?

Silver1
14-01-18, 06:20 PM
Well as I've boringly said before I hated season 8. I thought the whole thing ended up being nothing like the show and I was stunned that Whedon thought the whole sentient universe/star frack was good idea. It was the only time I felt truly embarrassed to be a Buffy fan. It's listed in the top ten of most embarrassing ideas in a comic for good reason imo.

Other fan forums I hung about on ridiculed it and I couldn't help but cringe too, and it appears I was not the only one. :)

https://www.ranker.com/list/dumb-things-that-happened-to-buffy-after-the-show-ended/jacob-shelton

https://moviepilot.com/posts/3921357

https://www.cbr.com/15-craziest-moments-in-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-comics/

Priceless
14-01-18, 06:35 PM
Well as I've boringly said before I hated season 8. I thought the whole thing ended up being nothing like the show and I was stunned that Whedon thought the whole sentient universe/star frack was good idea. It was the only time I felt truly embarrassed to be a Buffy fan. It's listed in the top ten of most embarrassing ideas in a comic for good reason imo.

Other fan forums I hung about on ridiculed it and I couldn't help but cringe too, and it appears I was not the only one. :)

https://www.ranker.com/list/dumb-things-that-happened-to-buffy-after-the-show-ended/jacob-shelton

https://moviepilot.com/posts/3921357

https://www.cbr.com/15-craziest-moments-in-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-comics/

Yep I cannot disagree, f***ing a world into existence is insane. Angel's reasoning behind it is possibly more insane :D it is one of the worst things the comic has done, but if nothing else, it was true to Angel (and Buffy's) character and is a cohesive continuation of Angel's story all the way through to S11 (which I have only read once and did not understand at all) I think Joss has already said he just went crazy writing S8 because he had no budget or tv execs to restrain him, and I think that shows.

There really is some good stuff in S8 that is enjoyable, it's a pity it's overshadowed by Twilight and his ridiculous plans :(

Silver1
14-01-18, 09:17 PM
The thing is they obviously didn't think about it properly at the time but they really threw Angel under the bus with the whole Twilight nonsense. To this day his character has been harmed by it, just like Spike with the whole AR thing.

It's like everybody's brains fell out when they wrote this nonsense. A few nutty thing you could throw off, but amount of out and out insane and non buffyverse ideas they had in this was just insane. I mean "The seed of wonder?" Jesus.

a thing of evil
14-01-18, 10:25 PM
I mean "The seed of wonder?" Jesus.

Seed is fine. It's just a cosmic egg and it meshes very well with the lore bits from season 1. You can actually kind of see it in the TV series too. There's a hole in the floor with a red light glowing from it in The Master's ruins. That's the seed's chamber. It's one thing I genuinely love about season 8, it references a lot of obscure little details from the show. Like Angel's tattoo. Or the book of twilight.

Silver1
14-01-18, 10:37 PM
A hole in a floor does not a universe myth make imo, especially it wasn't flagged as one .

betta
14-01-18, 11:30 PM
Seed is fine. It's just a cosmic egg and it meshes very well with the lore bits from season 1. You can actually kind of see it in the TV series too. There's a hole in the floor with a red light glowing from it in The Master's ruins. That's the seed's chamber. It's one thing I genuinely love about season 8, it references a lot of obscure little details from the show. Like Angel's tattoo. Or the book of twilight.

I'm totally OK with the Seed, but not with the Master; he died. D-i-e-d. Did the Seed need a protector? Create a new character for the purpose, or chose another one.

a thing of evil
14-01-18, 11:57 PM
I'm not OK with The Master either. I hate it when they bring villains back from the dead. It always strikes me as lazy.

flow
15-01-18, 02:40 PM
I have another random thought. This one is about Spike and the organ in season 2, What`s My Line.

Why does the organ come crashing down ? Spike just ran into it. It should have been solid enough, to cope with the impact. Or, if it was made out of cardboard, it shouldn`t have been able to break Spike`s spine.

And why did Spike run into the organ in the first place ?

flow

GoSpuffy
15-01-18, 02:42 PM
I haven't watched that episode for awhile. Was he running from fire?

Stoney
15-01-18, 03:27 PM
I have another random thought. This one is about Spike and the organ in season 2, What`s My Line.

Why does the organ come crashing down ? Spike just ran into it. It should have been solid enough, to cope with the impact. Or, if it was made out of cardboard, it shouldn`t have been able to break Spike`s spine.

And why did Spike run into the organ in the first place ?


I watched this only last week. :D

I'm pretty sure when Kendra was fighting Patrice they took out something around the base of the organ (I'm not sure if it was a supporting structure though). Then when Spike was supposed to be taking Dru towards the exit the hit from the censer Buffy threw to the back of his head made him fall forwards onto the organ and it collapsed under him so the pipes above then all came crashing down on his back (I think, I wasn't analysing it particularly!).

TriBel
15-01-18, 07:50 PM
the censer Buffy threw to the back of his head made him fall forwards onto the organ and it collapsed under him so the pipes above then all came crashing down on his back Hmmm...a psychoanalyst would have a field day with that remark. :)

flow
17-01-18, 10:07 AM
You are really amazing @Stoney ! I rewatched the epiosde and you are right. There is a supporting post from the organ, that is being destroyed in Kendras fight just a moment before. I would have never noticed it ! And as I rewatched I also noticed, that the door is next to the organ, so Spike wasn`t completely heading in the wrong direction. It still is weird though, that he was running into the organ and not into the door, but I guess, with all the fighting and fire and excitement, he got distracted.....

flow

vampmogs
17-01-18, 11:02 AM
Random Thoughts:

- Why is Spike even IN a wheelchair? Vampires can get viciously beaten, impaled with swords, thrown through walls, shot with bullets, and fall from towers or skyscrapers, and suffer no permanent damage... and yet Spike has an organ fall on top of him and he can't walk for months? In all fairness, it isn't until later in BtVS/AtS where most of this is established, but in retrospect it's always pretty odd that Spike is so badly injured that he's confined to a wheelchair. We see very few other instances where vampires suffer permanent injuries like this... so why?

Which brings me to....

- It's also extremely odd that the show never gives us any explanation as to why Drusilla is so weakened by an angry mob attack? What could an angry mob have possibly done to her that would prevent her from healing as normal and actually have her health deteriorate over time as it did in BtVS S2? It is never addressed whatsoever? I'm aware that some quasi-canonical comic wrote a story about this at some point (I vaguely recall a weird torture chair and Dru falling into a lake?) but fans shouldn't be expected to read comics to fill in missing gaps.

I always found both of their permanent injuries to contradict the mythology that has been established in regards to vampires and their healing abilities.

TriBel
17-01-18, 01:53 PM
Why is Spike even IN a wheelchair?? Psychosomatic? I was only half-joking with the reference to psychoanalysis. I'd have to rewatch it to be sure.

flow
17-01-18, 02:53 PM
My guess would be, that he would have needed human blood to heal, but he couldn`t hunt himself and Drusilla was only feeding him cute little puppies......

flow

Priceless
17-01-18, 09:15 PM
I feel sorry for Kennedy. She's one of the most unpopular characters in the show and then Willow cheats on her in S8. Poor Kennedy

Stoney
18-01-18, 12:24 AM
I completely agree re: Dru's weakness from the Prague mob, it is strange that they managed to create some developing weakness. But I've never had a problem with the fact that Spike is in a wheelchair for a while. I suppose I just accept that some injuries just don't fix as quickly and if his back had actually been broken, several discs crushed or some such, that this would simply take longer. His back is bust at the end of episode 10 and we see him standing well enough to kick the wheelchair away at the end of I Only Have Eyes For You, ep 19. So I'd assume a basic healing, enough to stand, had happened at least an episode earlier than he reveals it. So say it is severe enough for the wheelchair for 8 eps tops. Do we have any indication of what the passage of time is during the season? I'd have thought even a couple of months to recover without any surgery from, I'm mooting, multiple breaks in your spine is really very rapid. :noidea:

vampmogs
18-01-18, 06:39 AM
I completely agree re: Dru's weakness from the Prague mob, it is strange that they managed to create some developing weakness. But I've never had a problem with the fact that Spike is in a wheelchair for a while. I suppose I just accept that some injuries just don't fix as quickly and if his back had actually been broken, several discs crushed or some such, that this would simply take longer. His back is bust at the end of episode 10 and we see him standing well enough to kick the wheelchair away at the end of I Only Have Eyes For You, ep 19. So I'd assume a basic healing, enough to stand, had happened at least an episode earlier than he reveals it. So say it is severe enough for the wheelchair for 8 eps tops. Do we have any indication of what the passage of time is during the season? I'd have thought even a couple of months to recover without any surgery from, I'm mooting, multiple breaks in your spine is really very rapid. :noidea:

I mean, it's definitely more rapid than your average human being but I just find it odd that a vampire's body is apparently so durable that they can fall from a skyscraper (or a tower in Spike's case) and get back onto their feet but the organ managed to actually crush or break several of the discs in Spike's back. Angel and Spike (as well as Darla who leaps off a skyscraper and presumably lands on her feet) should have been paralysed on numerous occasions if that is the case.

The strength of vampires are really inconsistent and I do get that. It's just a TV series and at the end of the day it changes at the whim of the writers. It's just always stuck out to me when watching S2 because whilst you can hand-wave minor inconsistencies it's kind of harder to ignore when it becomes an entire plot point of the season.

As for how much time has passed in S2, it's hard to say. I've always took Angel's "Oh god it feels like I haven't seen you in months" in Becoming II (after his soul is restored) to actually be fairly accurate. So I've always assumed that Angel was running around soulless for at least a handful of months.

Stoney
18-01-18, 11:44 AM
As you say plot needs dictate things and cause inconsistencies, strength is often one that fluctuates oddly some times based on who needs to appear weaker or less able at that moment. I don't have an issue with the wheel chair and can hand wave it as an especially severe or complicated break personally. I can also accept him falling from the tower wasn't as bad because he landed flat and wasn't crushed by a pile of exceptionally heavy items. Depending on what the metal is and the thickness, pipe organs could be really weighty. Actually, between the two events, I actually find the fall from the tower harder to hand wave as having so little impact (no pun intended :p). But then we don't see the recovery time or all of the effects, so it's easy to just assume it could have been a slowish recovery to get back to full strength. Although, I take your point that there were several times when really severe injuries should have been incurred by the vamps (and that they aren't is a consistent thing), but sometimes things just hit/land particularly badly, or unusually and I don't find it hard to accept that the pipes onto his back were one of those times personally.

I couldn't remember when someone commented about the passing time but was sure they had, thanks for that. :)

Silver1
18-01-18, 12:58 PM
I feel sorry for Kennedy. She's one of the most unpopular characters in the show and then Willow cheats on her in S8. Poor Kennedy

Sadly I don't. :)

I found her to be one of the more aggravating elements in season 7 and personally I think it was a mistake to crowbar in a new love interest for Willow at such a late stage. You didn't have enough time to flesh out the character, so to to me at least, she came across as very one dimensional and a tad aggravating.

Priceless
18-01-18, 03:09 PM
Sadly I don't. :)

I found her to be one of the more aggravating elements in season 7 and personally I think it was a mistake to crowbar in a new love interest for Willow at such a late stage. You didn't have enough time to flesh out the character, so to to me at least, she came across as very one dimensional and a tad aggravating.

Lol, I accept that I am in the minority. I think Kennedy was just what Willow needed at the time, to help her deal with her feelings of guilt over Tara. Kennedy was so different to Tara, she was spoilt and bratty, but she also cared deeply for Willow, she was the potential who was most willing to fight, and die, for the cause and I have a lot of respect for her, but as I say, I accept I'm one of very few :)

Priceless
19-01-18, 11:26 PM
Happy Birthday Buffy!

Priceless
22-01-18, 11:22 PM
I wish they'd announce Season 12

GoSpuffy
23-01-18, 12:31 AM
I wish they'd announce Season 12

You and me sister!

Stoney
23-01-18, 05:28 AM
Well we know Gage/Joss met up post S11 so there's a good chance there will be one. It may all have to do with waiting for the Giles mini to begin/finish.

GoSpuffy
23-01-18, 04:28 PM
Well we know Gage/Joss met up post S11 so there's a good chance there will be one. It may all have to do with waiting for the Giles mini to begin/finish.

Is the Angel season over? Or is he still running around in the past? Part of me still thinks a Joss wants to rip my heart out by having Angel not sire Dru and therefore not Spike and therefore Spuffy never existed. Noooooo! *peaks between fingers for answer*

Priceless
23-01-18, 04:59 PM
Is the Angel season over? Or is he still running around in the past? Part of me still thinks a Joss wants to rip my heart out by having Angel not sire Dru and therefore not Spike and therefore Spuffy never existed. Noooooo! *peaks between fingers for answer*

Don't worry GoSpuffy, Angel S11 is finished. He is walking off into the sunset with Fred/Illyria :) Nothing in the past really changed, though TriBel thinks that Angel has made peace with his father and sister, and therefore is fundamentally changed, though we'll have to wait to see if there is a S12 to get any confirmation of that.

GoSpuffy
23-01-18, 07:02 PM
Don't worry GoSpuffy, Angel S11 is finished. He is walking off into the sunset with Fred/Illyria :) Nothing in the past really changed, though TriBel thinks that Angel has made peace with his father and sister, and therefore is fundamentally changed, though we'll have to wait to see if there is a S12 to get any confirmation of that.

walking off "romantically"? About time that poor vamp got a girl friend!!!

Silver1
24-01-18, 12:06 PM
The Angel comics were imo pretty badly written. I loved all the early stuff by Brian Lynch, (his After the Fall stuff was killer) but it deteriorated rapidly after that. And this latest lot was just plain out and out dull.

I think It's because they just don't know what to do with him, which is a shame.

Priceless
24-01-18, 12:41 PM
The Angel comics were imo pretty badly written. I loved all the early stuff by Brian Lynch, (his After the Fall stuff was killer) but it deteriorated rapidly after that. And this latest lot was just plain out and out dull.

I think It's because they just don't know what to do with him, which is a shame.

I thought Angel & Faith Season 9 was one of the best comics in the verse, only superceded by Buffy Season 11. It had a cohesive through-line, a compelling story and great characterisations. It never lost momentum and had a beginning middle and end which worked imo.

But I agree, if does feel like they've run out of stories to tell about Angel. I think they've attempted to change him in S11 and give him a new love interest, but we'll only be able to judge the success of that if there is a S12

My random thought is that whenever I see NFA written down I immediately think No Fixed Abode . . . it takes me a second to think 'nope, they mean Not Fade Away' and I hope that doesn't make me a bad fan :s

Silver1
24-01-18, 02:23 PM
I didn't think much of Angel and Faith to be honest. Didn't do enough service to either character imo.

For me It's just still After the fall, which hit the spot quite nicely.

TimeTravellingBunny
24-01-18, 02:36 PM
I disliked Angel and Faith a great deal. It was pretty much a textbook example of "how not to do a redemption story". Most of it was about Faith and a bunch of different characters (many of whom just randomly coming to be hyped guest stars and not doing anything substantial) telling Angel how wonderful he is and that he doesn't need to feel guilty for anything he did as Twilight (complete with some back-pedalling and misrepresenting of what actually happened in season 8 and what it was that Angel was really responsible for), followed by everyone doing Kumbaya, while the narrative shamed anyone who was still upset at Angel's past actions and wanted revenge.

flow
24-01-18, 06:43 PM
I have a random Buffy related question:

I am pretty sure, that it is canon, that Spikes name was William Pratt. Does anyone remember, when his last name was mentioned for the first time ?

flow

GoSpuffy
24-01-18, 07:18 PM
I have a random Buffy related question:

I am pretty sure, that it is canon, that Spikes name was William Pratt. Does anyone remember, when his last name was mentioned for the first time ?

flow

Good question. I'm sure it's Pratt too but you see so many different last names in fanfic it makes me wonder. What's with that?

Priceless
24-01-18, 07:22 PM
Good question. I'm sure it's Pratt too but you see so many different last names in fanfic it makes me wonder. What's with that?

I think those fics were written before Joss confirmed Williams real surname. I've never been sure where it was first used, but I am sure it's canon

Stoney
24-01-18, 08:24 PM
I think Pratt was used in a non-canonical comic (I'm not sure which, possibly one of the older IDW ones, I suspect PuckRobin, Aurora or ViR will know, someone will be able to tell us) and it was just readily accepted and adopted by fandom.

But I am sure that when Gage used it in S11 it was the first time Spike's human surname has been confirmed as Pratt in canon. :biggrin1:

Priceless
24-01-18, 08:39 PM
I think Pratt was used in a non-canonical comic (I'm not sure which, possibly one of the older IDW ones, I suspect PuckRobin, Aurora or ViR will know, someone will be able to tell us) and it was just readily accepted and adopted by fandom.

But I am sure that when Gage used it in S11 it was the first time Spike's human surname has been confirmed as Pratt in canon. :biggrin1:

But is was confirmed as canon by Joss, or did Joss write that particular comic? I'm really surprised that S11 was it's first use in canon.

TriBel
24-01-18, 10:07 PM
This from Wikipedia (Google is my only friend :cutecry:- don't try to offer me solace Pricey, flow or GoSpuffy - I'm wallowing in self-pity :sadwalk:)

"William's surname is given as "Pratt" in the non-canon comic Old Times and is written on the label of his jar of blood in the comic Spike: Asylum #002. This surname became official with the publication of the canon comic Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 11 #7, in which Buffy calls him by it".

I could have sworn it was earlier but what do I know...:sad:

GoSpuffy
24-01-18, 10:12 PM
I would have sworn I heard Giles refer to him as Pratt but I guess it was just "you prat" lol.

Priceless
24-01-18, 10:13 PM
This from Wikipedia (Google is my only friend :cutecry:- don't try to offer me solace Pricey, flow or GoSpuffy - I'm wallowing in self-pity :sadwalk:)

"William's surname is given as "Pratt" in the non-canon comic Old Times and is written on the label of his jar of blood in the comic Spike: Asylum #002. This surname became official with the publication of the canon comic Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 11 #7, in which Buffy calls him by it".

I could have sworn it was earlier but what do I know...:sad:

What has happened to you TriBel? Lay down on our couch and tell us all about it :D What did we do before Wiki?

Stoney
24-01-18, 10:51 PM
See I was too lazy to search out the name of the comic and I didn't remember the reuse in Asylum, but I knew S11 was the first time canon used it. *feeling smug* I think you must be thinking of Giles saying 'you prat' to him GoSpuffy, he definitely does that at some point.

I'm not offering solace, but you can still tell me about it instead. :laughbounce:

Priceless
24-01-18, 10:57 PM
Do you think Joss chose the surname Pratt as a comment on Spike's personality? Does anyone know of any comment Joss has made of the choice of name?

GoSpuffy
24-01-18, 11:03 PM
I heard it was a nod to Boris Karloff, his real name was William Pratt. Wow, you know the name is bad when Boris is better than little Willy Pratt. Video for the laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMQ79ewavQg

TimeTravellingBunny
24-01-18, 11:20 PM
I heard it was a nod to Boris Karloff, his real name was William Pratt. Wow, you know the name is bad when Boris is better than little Willy Pratt. Video for the laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMQ79ewavQg

Actually, Russian names seem to have been popular in old Hollywood - no doubt they were seen as cool and exotic by American and British stars with ordinary English birth names. Another example is actress Natacha Rambova, Rudolph Valentino's wife - real name Winifred Shaugnessy.

TriBel
24-01-18, 11:29 PM
I would have sworn I heard Giles refer to him as Pratt but I guess it was just "you prat" lol.

There's this from Just Rewards (the R got stuck on the damned keyboard - taken me 5 minutes to pries it up. Stupid Computer!! :badpc: I bet its serial number is 666! Bloody inanimate objects dictating what I can and can't write) "I'm not the prat here. I know you, Angel. What do you think you're doing?" Yes - I thought it was a homage to Boris Karloff - same as Robin Wood was a homage to...err...Robin Wood.

GoSpuffy
24-01-18, 11:40 PM
There's this from Just Rewards (the R got stuck on the damned keyboard - taken me 5 minutes to pries it up. Stupid Computer!! :badpc: I bet its serial number is 666! Bloody inanimate objects dictating what I can and can't write) "I'm not the prat here. I know you, Angel. What do you think you're doing?" Yes - I thought it was a homage to Boris Karloff - same as Robin Wood was a homage to...err...Robin Wood.

Every time I hear Robin Wood I think Robin Hood. Is there another Robin Wood? Am I the only person with the affliction?

Stoney
25-01-18, 05:02 AM
Aurora said it was a homage to Boris Karloff in her FFL review (and now I've checked mentioned Old Times and Spike: Asylum too). She said 'Whedon quickly confirmed that Spike's surname is Pratt' but didn't say when/how, so I don't have a quote. But as she went on to comment, Pratt is a pretty common English surname, across the social classes.

Priceless
25-01-18, 07:12 AM
Aurora said it was a homage to Boris Karloff in her FFL review (and now I've checked mentioned Old Times and Spike: Asylum too). She said 'Whedon quickly confirmed that Spike's surname is Pratt' but didn't say when/how, so I don't have a quote. But as she went on to comment, Pratt is a pretty common English surname, across the social classes.

Does that mean Joss never confirmed it was a homage to Boris Karloff? I think he chose it because of it's meaning in the UK, being a fool.

By the way I have a new computer monitor and the colours are all wrong and it's driving me crazy. I've rung a helpline and they say my computer is too old to handle this monitors tech, luckily I've got a new computer on order, but until it gets here, everything just looks weird :down:

TriBel
25-01-18, 09:58 AM
Does that mean Joss never confirmed it was a homage to Boris Karloff? I think he chose it because of it's meaning in the UK, being a fool.

By the way I have a new computer monitor and the colours are all wrong and it's driving me crazy. I've rung a helpline and they say my computer is too old to handle this monitors tech, luckily I've got a new computer on order, but until it gets here, everything just looks weird :down:

I read somewhere he confirmed it (or confirmed something) in S5. There's also an old thread on here (by MikeB?) that ties the surname into the British aristocracy. And I told you computers were the tool of the devil - you wouldn't listen. Here - have this :badpc:

Stoney
25-01-18, 10:32 AM
Video for the laugh:

I always relate that song to Spike because I first heard it in a fanvid and bought it afterwards. The fanvid is still my favourite Spike one (under the spoiler because it's a tangent as it doesn't even say the word Pratt in it but I can never resist the urge to share it :biggrin1:).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQHpTPF6oM


Does that mean Joss never confirmed it was a homage to Boris Karloff? I think he chose it because of it's meaning in the UK, being a fool.

By the way I have a new computer monitor and the colours are all wrong and it's driving me crazy. I've rung a helpline and they say my computer is too old to handle this monitors tech, luckily I've got a new computer on order, but until it gets here, everything just looks weird :down:

Joss didn't choose it, it was the non-canon writer of Old Times that gave him the surname Pratt, as the homage to Boris Karloff and Joss, I think, just accepted it as a suggested name. It wasn't chosen because of the link to being a fool. If Joss liked it as a suggestion because of that I don't know. It certainly works well with Fool for Love, but timing-wise I suspect that's a coincidence.

The name is just common in England, in all social classes. Aurora went into quite a bit of detail about the party scene in the FFL review (which was really a detailed character study) and ways in which it didn't fit well to high society in the behaviour of the guests. She concluded, if I remember right, that there wasn't enough information to clearly decide if William was middle class or aristocrat but felt you could be confident he was either upper middle class or untitled lowest rung aristocrat. I conclude he was somewhat posh. :p


I read somewhere he confirmed it (or confirmed something) in S5. There's also an old thread on here (by MikeB?) that ties the surname into the British aristocracy. And I told you computers were the tool of the devil - you wouldn't listen. Here - have this :badpc:

I've no idea when Old Times was written against when the TV show was running so I really don't know when Joss agreed that it could be Spike's surname.

The surname really isn't class specific, MikeB just likes the idea of Spike secretly being titled, rich, with ties to royalty I think. :)

flow
25-01-18, 03:34 PM
I have to admit, that I am a bit surprised now. I always thought, that the name was mentioned on the show, because I felt, I knew the name, when I first read in fanfiction. It has for ever been used in fanfiction and why should they all jump on the train of a non-canonical comic ?

I looked Old Times up on Google and it was first published in 2005. I am glad though, that Joss accepted the Name. it would have been weird, if he hjad come up with something like Smith or Miller after all this years ;-)

flow

Priceless
29-01-18, 03:27 PM
What I'd love to see in future seasons is Willow have a child. She was so good with Oz's son and she wants a family, I hope she gets one :D

Priceless
01-02-18, 10:42 AM
The Gorch brothers were great, two of the more interesting vampires we saw in the show

Stoney
01-02-18, 11:42 AM
I like that they, with Harmony and Kralik, showed that if you were an unpleasant person in your human life you wouldn't noticeably change so much when you were turned into a vampire. The brothers and Kralik were of course more extremely 'bad' as humans and were already homicidal maniacs. So there was a bigger shift for Harmony of course, as she went for literal kills rather than just being a cruel person verbally cutting others down. But she was callous and cruel before and after. I really like that we get different degrees that make sense against the human individual personalities, it just makes it all so much more nuanced. :biggrin1:

Priceless
01-02-18, 12:02 PM
I like that they, with Harmony and Kralik, showed that if you were an unpleasant person in your human life you wouldn't noticeably change so much when you were turned into a vampire. The brothers and Kralik were of course more extremely 'bad' as humans and were already homicidal maniacs. So there was a bigger shift for Harmony of course, as she went for literal kills rather than just being a cruel person verbally cutting others down. But she was callous and cruel before and after. I really like that we get different degrees that make sense against the human individual personalities, it just makes it all so much more nuanced. :biggrin1:

I really enjoy the show when it creates motw with personality, it adds another layer of complexity, and as you say, adds to the lore.

a thing of evil
01-02-18, 01:51 PM
What I'd love to see in future seasons is Willow have a child.

Well, she kinda does have a child. I mean, sure, the seed of wonder is a mystical egg thingy but Will did give birth to it and it came from her heart and whatnot.

Priceless
01-02-18, 10:33 PM
Well, she kinda does have a child. I mean, sure, the seed of wonder is a mystical egg thingy but Will did give birth to it and it came from her heart and whatnot.

I'm not sure Willow sees herself as the 'mother of magic', and she did tell Oz that she was worried she'd never have the family that he has and she did seem to want a child. Although that was 3 years ago in verse-time, so she may have changed her mind by now anyway.

Priceless
03-02-18, 02:21 PM
Innocence is the first perfect episode of Buffy I think

Priceless
21-02-18, 05:46 PM
I tweeted Christos Cage to say thank you for a season 12 and he liked it. It's a small thing, but it makes me happy

TimeTravellingBunny
22-02-18, 12:36 AM
Innocence is the first perfect episode of Buffy I think

Lie to Me was the first perfect episode of Buffy IMO.

betta
22-02-18, 02:22 AM
At least I tried... :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/s4M5oUH.jpg

Priceless
22-02-18, 03:40 AM
Does Joss really care about the fandom enough to want to please us all and have a Spuffy timeline and a Bangel timeline? What about a Fuffy timeline . . . a Briley timeline. My head hurts just thinking about it all :D

TimeTravellingBunny
22-02-18, 04:14 AM
Does Joss really care about the fandom enough to want to please us all and have a Spuffy timeline and a Bangel timeline? What about a Fuffy timeline . . . a Briley timeline. My head hurts just thinking about it all :D

I think Briley (Biley? :D) is out of the running, because it's never been popular.

But indeed, I'm surprised that Joss, Mr. "what you need, not what you want", is so desperate to pander to fandom groups. Then again, he did that in Chosen.
And why just Bangel and Spuffy - Willow/Tara is a big fandom, if anything I'd think he'd want to pander to them (not to mention the whole "Bury your Gays" controversy). Angel/Cordy is a pretty popular ship, too - and we know how that one was treated. Apparently Willow/Xander used to be popular in the early seasons, and back then Joss had no problem ruining that one. What happened?

Priceless
22-02-18, 04:58 AM
I think Briley (Biley? :D) is out of the running, because it's never been popular.

But indeed, I'm surprised that Joss, Mr. "what you need, not what you want", is so desperate to pander to fandom groups. Then again, he did that in Chosen.
And why just Bangel and Spuffy - Willow/Tara is a big fandom, if anything I'd think he'd want to pander to them (not to mention the whole "Bury your Gays" controversy). Angel/Cordy is a pretty popular ship, too - and we know how that one was treated. Apparently Willow/Xander used to be popular in the early seasons, and back then Joss had no problem ruining that one. What happened?

But is he going to pander to the fandom? We just don't know yet. He didn't pander when he had Buffy and Spike face Angel in S10 and tell him they were together, or Buffy's ILY in S11, it was just the direction the story was going. Then in Angel S11 he had Angel get together with Fred/Illyria which surely pandered to no-one :D I don't think we can predict what Joss will do. In my heart of hearts I'd like Buffy to finally be cookies and make a final decision on who she feels she wants to spend the rest of her life with, and of course I want it to be Spike

flow
22-02-18, 04:50 PM
It is my day off tomorrow and that means, my weekend starts right now ! Yeah ! And I am going to celebrate that by watching this weeks Buffy season 3 episodes for the rewatch thread.

flow

betta
25-02-18, 01:48 AM
The BBC Ripper show:

https://i.imgur.com/JILHsVw.jpg

TriBel
25-02-18, 11:57 AM
@ Betta - I remember being intrigued by A&F 9 because it was set in London and because I've got an interest in the Flaneur and psychogeography (sigh - I need to get out more):(. If you're British, the term "Ripper" can't be used without evoking Jack the Ripper. Then I realised LMPTM made reference to Dr Gull. Dr William Gull was the Royal Physician who's occasionally in the frame for the Ripper murders (see Moore's From Hell, the subsequent film and the Michael Caine TV film JtR). I've just realised this makes me sound the biggest nerd this side of Christendom :( - in mitigation - it was all in preparation for a "Crime & Popular Culture" module I was teaching. Interestingly, Barbara Creed's book Phallic Panic (it's about horror film and male monsters) has a chapter on JtR - the only "human" monster in a book dedicated to representations of fictional monsters (including Vampires). I think Whedon definitely weaves these threads together. :)

TimeTravellingBunny
25-02-18, 05:00 PM
@ Betta - I remember being intrigued by A&F 9 because it was set in London and because I've got an interest in the Flaneur and psychogeography (sigh - I need to get out more):(. If you're British, the term "Ripper" can't be used without evoking Jack the Ripper. Then I realised LMPTM made reference to Dr Gull. Dr William Gull was the Royal Physician who's occasionally in the frame for the Ripper murders (see Moore's From Hell, the subsequent film and the Michael Caine TV film JtR). I've just realised this makes me sound the biggest nerd this side of Christendom :( - in mitigation - it was all in preparation for a "Crime & Popular Culture" module I was teaching. Interestingly, Barbara Creed's book Phallic Panic (it's about horror film and male monsters) has a chapter on JtR - the only "human" monster in a book dedicated to representations of fictional monsters (including Vampires). I think Whedon definitely weaves these threads together. :)
I think that "Ripper" evokes Jack the Ripper for everyone, not just the Brits.

Priceless
26-02-18, 11:01 AM
Just posted about Alyson Hannigan's great performance in Doppelgangland and that made me consider how great other performances were in the show, so just wanted to say there wasn't a performance that I hated and that Nick Brendon doesn't get the plaudits the other actors do, but he is perfect as Xander and I cannot imagine any other actor being so great in that role.

Sosa lola
26-02-18, 03:20 PM
I wish we got to see Dark Xander more, because Nicholas Brendon is always amazing playing menacing. Not just Hyena Xander and Vampire Xander, but also attempting to murder Spike in Entropy and his scene about Angel's soul in Becoming Part 1. A very, very, very small part of me would have liked to see Joss go with his original idea to murder Xander in Dirty Girls just to see NB playing The First. I bet he would have been terrifying.

Priceless
28-02-18, 12:32 AM
I've been wondering why, when Angel was resouled in Becoming, he didn't instantly remember what he'd done and what had happened. Maybe it would take him a while because of the shock, or maybe it was part of the spell.

And Sosa lola, discussing fanfics with you today has made me want to write something about Angel and Cordy, if I can just get started

Stoney
28-02-18, 02:58 AM
Of course it is written for the drama of the moment in what Buffy has to do, but yes, I think the in-story explanation has to be that there was a sense of disorientation and internal shock in suddenly becoming souled.

flow
28-02-18, 03:22 PM
But wasn`t it similar to what happened, when he first was ensouled by the gypsies ? Wasn`t he disorientated as well ? i don`t clearly remember that, but i don`t think, he instantly jknew what happened and the horror of what he had done as a Vampire only came back to him after some time.

flow

Stoney
01-03-18, 03:43 AM
Not a great deal of time, probably a touch quicker really, but it is written to support what happens with Acathla because it is in the flashback in Becoming (noted as being in a wood in Romania in 1898).
The glowing Orb suddenly gets very bright for an instant, and then goes
dark. Cut to Angelus. His eyes grow bright for a moment, then return to
normal, his soul now restored. An elder man of the clan steps up to him
as he sits back on his ankles.

Gypsy Man: It hurts, yes? Good. It will hurt more.

Angel: (confused) Where am I? (pants hard)

Gypsy Man: You don't remember... everything you've done for a hundred
years. In a moment, you will. The face of everyone you killed... our
daughter's face... they will haunt you, and you will know what true
suffering is.

Angel: (still not understanding) Killed? I, I don't...

Slowly the memories come back to him: all the people in Budapest after
the earthquake that he and Darla killed for their blood; all the people
he's turned into demons; the gypsy girl that proved to be his downfall.

Angel: No...

He looks down away from the man and begins to sob.


There was some sense of disorientation then, but it wasn't long at all before he remembered. It's perhaps a little inconsistent but the idea that he didn't know instantly is there for sure.

We saw him return to his vampire family later in 1900 in the Darla flashbacks, during the Boxer Rebellion when he tried to rejoin them but that was with full awareness, he was just struggling to deal with the whole thing and wanting to be with the familiar, which makes some sense. Then he was just killing criminals and Darla called him on it, tried to make him kill a child to prove himself and so he left. But that was all a bit later, but it wasn't him not being able to remember what happened, just struggling.

Priceless
01-03-18, 09:24 AM
The memories took longer to return in Becoming, but I can forgive that as it assists the story to not have Angel remember what he'd done.

vampmogs
01-03-18, 09:46 AM
It's worth pointing out that the gyspy man compelled Angel to remember by telling him he had killed innocents whereas Buffy lulled Angel into thinking everything was alright and to simply take comfort in her instead. Had Buffy pushed for Angel to try and remember the memories would have probably returned to him quicker as well. But yes, it seems that the effect of the spell disorientates Angel for a little bit.

I do have to point out that whilst I am in the Angel/Angelus are the same person camp, I can't blame people for interpreting the dialogue in Becoming II as that he is not. Angel's "it feels like I haven't seen you in months" does make it seem as if Angel had 'left' since losing his soul and was only just returning to his body now.

flow
01-03-18, 06:17 PM
I do have to point out that whilst I am in the Angel/Angelus are the same person camp, I can't blame people for interpreting the dialogue in Becoming II as that he is not. Angel's "it feels like I haven't seen you in months" does make it seem as if Angel had 'left' since losing his soul and was only just returning to his body now.

I am in the Angel/Angelus are the same person camp as well, so my thoughts might be influenced by me being biased.

But...even if I´d pretend for a moment, that Angel/Angelus are not the same person, they would still share the same memories, as well, as they share the same body, wouldn`t they ? When Angel was de-souled after his night with Buffy, Angelus remembered very clearly, who Buffy was, what she had meant to Angel and what had happened the night before.

He later says, that the reason, he wants to hurt/kill Buffy, is, that Angel had feelings for her. There is no other explanation, for this, except, that Angelus remembers those feelings (and hates them).

On the other side, Angel very clearly remembers all the horrible crimes, Angelus commited before he was first cursed by the gypsies.

Therefore it doesn`t make sense, if Angel would not remember, what has happened to Angelus and what he did between his second loss of the soul and him being cursed for the second time.

To me Angel`s line "It feels, I haven`t seen you for months" is more a case of sloppy writing or a continuity goof, than a proof for the existence of two different beings, one named Angel and one named Angelus.

flow

TimeTravellingBunny
02-03-18, 05:35 PM
I am in the Angel/Angelus are the same person camp as well, so my thoughts might be influenced by me being biased.

But...even if I´d pretend for a moment, that Angel/Angelus are not the same person, they would still share the same memories, as well, as they share the same body, wouldn`t they ? When Angel was de-souled after his night with Buffy, Angelus remembered very clearly, who Buffy was, what she had meant to Angel and what had happened the night before.

He later says, that the reason, he wants to hurt/kill Buffy, is, that Angel had feelings for her. There is no other explanation, for this, except, that Angelus remembers those feelings (and hates them).

On the other side, Angel very clearly remembers all the horrible crimes, Angelus commited before he was first cursed by the gypsies.

Therefore it doesn`t make sense, if Angel would not remember, what has happened to Angelus and what he did between his second loss of the soul and him being cursed for the second time.

To me Angel`s line "It feels, I haven`t seen you for months" is more a case of sloppy writing or a continuity goof, than a proof for the existence of two different beings, one named Angel and one named Angelus.

flow

Well, no, he doesn't say that "Angel" had feelings for her. He says "She made me feel human." Me. First person singular.

flow
03-03-18, 11:27 AM
Well, no, he doesn't say that "Angel" had feelings for her. He says "She made me feel human." Me. First person singular.

Yes, you are right. I wasn`t precise. But do you think, Angelus is talking about Angels`s feelings as if they are his own feelings, and thus acknowledges, that they are the same person ? Or do you think, Angelus and Angel are different persons and Angelus is talking only about his - not about Angel`s - feelings here ?

flow

Priceless
03-03-18, 12:55 PM
Feel like I've been living in season 3 for months. I'm doing a rewatch at the same time as the S3 Pos/Neg watch and I am pretty much over this season and cannot wait to move onto S4 Pos/Neg. Although S3 is very very good, you can have too much of a good thing

TimeTravellingBunny
03-03-18, 01:48 PM
Yes, you are right. I wasn`t precise. But do you think, Angelus is talking about Angels`s feelings as if they are his own feelings, and thus acknowledges, that they are the same person ? Or do you think, Angelus and Angel are different persons and Angelus is talking only about his - not about Angel`s - feelings here ?

flow

I think that the show never gave an inkling that he or his fellow vampires ever thought he was anything but the same person - in fact, I don't think anyone on BtVS ever gave the impression they believed there were two different people there. In fact, until Enemies, most people were mostly still calling him "Angel" when he was soulless.
And so did the original scripts (which can be found on Buffyworld.com). Google "Buffy Becoming part 2 script" - not transcript. The quote that Stoney posted above from Becoming pt 2 is from the transcript - in the script, Angel is referred to as "Angel" all the way through. (I can't copy paste as I'm on my tablet.)

In short, I think that, for the most of the run of both shows, the idea of "Angel" and "Angelus" being literally two people was pure fanon. (I wonder if the habit of even differentiating between his versions by names originated in Enemies, or it had already been a fandom thing and then the show canonized it? Does anyone know?)
I remember the first time I encountered the idea that he was two people rather than one - it was after I had seen the first three seasons (our TV only showed those and then stopped) and searched for Buffy info online for the first time. One of the things I found was a Favorite Character poll. I learned that they were going to be new characters - like Anya, Tara, Dawn... - but I was completely perplexed when I saw they listed "Angel" and "Angelus" as two different characters. I was really surprised and it made no sense to me.

Unfortunately, Angel season 4 then gave more ammunition to fans who think that - which is contradicted by everything else in both shows. It's one of the many things I hate about that season.

Priceless
03-03-18, 02:36 PM
I don't know why I listen to so many Buffy podcasts, because half of them just annoy me! I find myself mumbling 'you idiots, do you even watch the show' :p

Fool for Buffy
03-03-18, 03:42 PM
I don't know why I listen to so many Buffy podcasts, because half of them just annoy me! I find myself mumbling 'you idiots, do you even watch the show' :p

I’m starting to think I’m wrong about everything; apparently it’s impossible for a podcast to share my same opinion.

Priceless
03-03-18, 03:57 PM
I’m starting to think I’m wrong about everything; apparently it’s impossible for a podcast to share my same opinion.

Completely! I listened to one the other day and the podcaster kept calling Rona Rhonda. I nearly sent off an angry email, I was that upset :down: Now if that's how well they know the show, how can we trust any of them ;)

- - - Updated - - -

I feel in the interests of balance I have to say that i listened to a podcast today that informed me that one of the meanings of 'Xander' was a fish similar to a pike . . . :jaw:

Fool for Buffy
03-03-18, 05:33 PM
Completely! I listened to one the other day and the podcaster kept calling Rona Rhonda. I nearly sent off an angry email, I was that upset :down: Now if that's how well they know the show, how can we trust any of them ;)

- - - Updated - - -

I feel in the interests of balance I have to say that i listened to a podcast today that informed me that one of the meanings of 'Xander' was a fish similar to a pike . . . :jaw:

I once did send an angry email to Buffering and then realized I was too invested in podcasts. I’ve since slowed down. Now does this fish definition just mean doing Go Fish was just a slightly more purposeful filler, or is there interpretive work for Tribel to do?

Priceless
03-03-18, 05:41 PM
I once did send an angry email to Buffering and then realized I was too invested in podcasts. I’ve since slowed down. Now does this fish definition just mean doing Go Fish was just a slightly more purposeful filler, or is there interpretive work for Tribel to do?

What did you email to Buffering? Did they reply? Were they nice? I like their podcast, and I'd hate to think they weren't actually nice people. (I love Detective Angel, but I worry that when they get to Spike they may not be as gentle as I'd like)

Well I think I figured it out without TriBel, although I love reading her theories and ideas. Xander = Pike = Buffy Movie, Xander was meant to be the Pike of the tv show :clever:

GoSpuffy
03-03-18, 06:00 PM
Alyson Hannigan and David Boreanaz have had the most notable carreers. Maybe ASH in England is as busy. Does that mean they're the best actors? The most popular? I don't understand why we never saw more of SMG, she carried the show IMO.

TriBel
03-03-18, 06:12 PM
I’m starting to think I’m wrong about everything; apparently it’s impossible for a podcast to share my same opinion.

LOL! No-one ever shares mine! Just consider yourself as making "an original contribution to knowledge" and award yourself a PhD.:clever: Simples! :D

Priceless
03-03-18, 06:26 PM
Alyson Hannigan and David Boreanaz have had the most notable carreers. Maybe ASH in England is as busy. Does that mean they're the best actors? The most popular? I don't understand why we never saw more of SMG, she carried the show IMO.

ASH has worked a lot. I wish we'd seen SMG in more stuff, but I think that ship has sunk now. She's very involved in her Foodstirs business. I am sure if she pushed her agent she could easily find work, though it wouldn't be a staring role, she'd have to build up her career again. I am sure the producers of Alyson Hannigans new show would jump at having SMG appear as a guest in one or two episodes.

Fool for Buffy
03-03-18, 06:28 PM
What did you email to Buffering? Did they reply? Were they nice? I like their podcast, and I'd hate to think they weren't actually nice people. (I love Detective Angel, but I worry that when they get to Spike they may not be as gentle as I'd like)


They never replied. My email was hardly about Buffy, more about a rant Kristen went on that I didn’t approve of. I’m gonna keep it to myself though because it’s controversial and I don’t want to anger anyone. Sorry:s

- - - Updated - - -


LOL! No-one ever shares mine! Just consider yourself as making "an original contribution to knowledge" and award yourself a PhD.:clever: Simples! :D

Oh I love this! Alright, Doctor Fool? Doctor Pumpkin Belly? Decisions decisions...

Priceless
03-03-18, 06:30 PM
They never replied. My email was hardly about Buffy, more about a rant Kristen went on that I didn’t approve of. I’m gonna keep it to myself though because it’s controversial and I don’t want to anger anyone. Sorry


I don't think you could ever upset me Dr Pumpkin-Belly :p But I respect you privacy

TriBel
03-03-18, 08:15 PM
@FfB aka LPB - nah - far too many fools with PhDs - Dr Pumpkin Belly is much more original!

a thing of evil
03-03-18, 08:29 PM
Alyson Hannigan and David Boreanaz have had the most notable carreers. Maybe ASH in England is as busy. Does that mean they're the best actors? The most popular? I don't understand why we never saw more of SMG, she carried the show IMO.

Sarah's decided to become an international cookie mogul, I mean, that's so much cooler than acting. As to Alyson Hannigan, I remember once randomly checking her Wikipedia page. I was honestly surprised. When she joined BtVS she's already had, like, 20 years of experience acting and also a university degree. She's a psychologist by the way. It's like, Hannigan's a true actress, she's done everything - movies, TV shows, stage, voice work. Same situation with Tony Head. Those two are absolute professionals, they'll always find work.

bespangled
04-03-18, 08:15 AM
I remember the first time I encountered the idea that he was two people rather than one - it was after I had seen the first three seasons (our TV only showed those and then stopped) and searched for Buffy info online for the first time. One of the things I found was a Favorite Character poll. I learned that they were going to be new characters - like Anya, Tara, Dawn... - but I was completely perplexed when I saw they listed "Angel" and "Angelus" as two different characters. I was really surprised and it made no sense to me.

Unfortunately, Angel season 4 then gave more ammunition to fans who think that - which is contradicted by everything else in both shows. It's one of the many things I hate about that season.

Completely agree - but I think he lets the group in LA believe that Angel is not "him" because they would be afraid otherwise. However, I can see differentiating them in a poll - a lot of people love Angelus and are meh about Angel.

James Marsters has his new gig in Runaways - which I find surprisingly enjoyable. I don't usually follow actors. For my money, Amber Benson has had the best career since leaving Buffy. She writes, directs, produces - and writes books. I love that she said she was tired of people telling her to lose weight, and tired of cattle calls. WTG!

TimeTravellingBunny
04-03-18, 05:58 PM
Completely agree - but I think he lets the group in LA believe that Angel is not "him" because they would be afraid otherwise. However, I can see differentiating them in a poll - a lot of people love Angelus and are meh about Angel.

James Marsters has his new gig in Runaways - which I find surprisingly enjoyable. I don't usually follow actors. For my money, Amber Benson has had the best career since leaving Buffy. She writes, directs, produces - and writes books. I love that she said she was tired of people telling her to lose weight, and tired of cattle calls. WTG!
Why would she need to lose weight? Idiots.

Re: But that's like putting Dark Willow and Willow as two different characters. Or you could put Buffy in high school seasons and Buffy in seasons 5-7 as separate options (not sure about season 4), or divide those further, as some people like Buffy better in some periods and some more in others. Cordelia could be at least 3 different options (and I don't count Jasdelia in them, since that was Jasmine). And so on. But no one does that. Because a favorite character poll is just that. If you want to a poll as to which version of Angel or Willow or Spike or Buffy is most popular, then you make a "do you prefer..." poll about versions of that character.

bespangled
05-03-18, 04:06 AM
Why would she need to lose weight? Idiots.

Re: But that's like putting Dark Willow and Willow as two different characters. Or you could put Buffy in high school seasons and Buffy in seasons 5-7 as separate options (not sure about season 4), or divide those further, as some people like Buffy better in some periods and some more in others. Cordelia could be at least 3 different options (and I don't count Jasdelia in them, since that was Jasmine). And so on. But no one does that. Because a favorite character poll is just that. If you want to a poll as to which version of Angel or Willow or Spike or Buffy is most popular, then you make a "do you prefer..." poll about versions of that character.

Dark!Willow is the culmination of six seasons of watching Willow evolve. I'd say Angel and Angelus are more a manifestation of DID, or what was once called multiple personalities. The personalities are always there but one personality is dominant at any given time. When the soul is there then the demon is repressed to some degree - and I'd say a lot less than the surrounding humans believe. When the demon is at the forefront then the soul is blacked out. For all intents and purposes it no longer exists. But then that's all my head canon.

betta
09-03-18, 12:41 AM
http://78.media.tumblr.com/e22382f11fd4704dbde3245f7e75379b/tumblr_nwncwzEp3V1s59hjvo1_1280.gif

By Laura Athayde

1. Fear of Graduation;
2. Fear of not being good at what I do;
3. Fear of pushing away my friends;
4. Fear of not being happy in love;
5. Deal with fear is to grow up... and become an adult is a necessary evil.

SOURCE (http://ltdathayde.tumblr.com/post/131715808331/o-tema-de-amanh%C3%A3-pra-mand%C3%ADbula-%C3%A9-medo-e-sim-eu)

TriBel
14-03-18, 06:22 PM
I'm reading a really interesting essay on del Toro's vampire film Cronos. I use "really interesting" in a relative sense. It's about vampires and crossing borders (it cites Spike and Angel's travels over time and space as an example). It's discussing heterotopias.

"heterotopic spaces contain different levels of reality that coexist (and perhaps come into conflict with each other): they suggest realities beyond themselves. Their potential is infinite (and thus utopian); however, these are not hypothetical places but real places that
form part of our social fabric. The vampire functions in this way as an embodied entity that contains different and sometimes conflicting levels of reality. As an embodied individual the vampire is localizable but contains infinite possibilities, to the extent of having the
capacity to contain all spaces, places and times".:blink::confused:

I think S7 is concerned with heterotopic spaces (Lessons, Same Time, Same Place; the maps and clocks on the diner wall in First Date - same time, another place) as is Fray and A11. I think S12 will be. :) Please note - I did say interesting was relative (and I didn't use the word "understandable" at all).:confused3:

flow
17-03-18, 09:25 PM
This came to my mind, while reading the amazing reviews for Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa and Smashed in the season 6 review thread. I did not want to post it there, because it feels to be a bit silly a thought to post in that thread. But I feel safe here, with you my friends. I know, you won`t ridicule me for it (I bloody well hope.......)

There are four times, in the aforementioned three episodes, where Buffy and Spike are liying on the ground and in everyone of them, Buffy is lying on top of Spike.

The first time it happens in OMWF, when Spike and Buffy fall into the grave. There is definitely a sexual tension there, as American Aurora has pointed out in her wonderful review. The second time it happens very early in Tabula Rasa, when Spike is attacked by the loan sharks minions and Buffy jumps at him, to pull him to the ground. This scene has not got that much of a sexual undertone, but still.... The third Scene is also from Tabula Rasa, after Spike and Buffy have lost their memories and Joand discovers Randy is a vampire and straddles him, to hold him on the ground.

And the last scene is the last scene in Smashed, shortly after Spike and Buffy have fallen through to the basement level.

So, I was wondering, is it is just coincidental, that Buffy is always on top and if not, what does it signify ?

flow

TimeTravellingBunny
17-03-18, 09:51 PM
This came to my mind, while reading the amazing reviews for Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa and Smashed in the season 6 review thread. I did not want to post it there, because it feels to be a bit silly a thought to post in that thread. But I feel safe here, with you my friends. I know, you won`t ridicule me for it (I bloody well hope.......)

There are four times, in the aforementioned three episodes, where Buffy and Spike are liying on the ground and in everyone of them, Buffy is lying on top of Spike.

The first time it happens in OMWF, when Spike and Buffy fall into the grave. There is definitely a sexual tension there, as American Aurora has pointed out in her wonderful review. The second time it happens very early in Tabula Rasa, when Spike is attacked by the loan sharks minions and Buffy jumps at him, to pull him to the ground. This scene has not got that much of a sexual undertone, but still.... The third Scene is also from Tabula Rasa, after Spike and Buffy have lost their memories and Joand discovers Randy is a vampire and straddles him, to hold him on the ground.

And the last scene is the last scene in Smashed, shortly after Spike and Buffy have fallen through to the basement level.

So, I was wondering, is it is just coincidental, that Buffy is always on top and if not, what does it signify ?

flow

I don't think it signifies anything, except that they're hot for each other. Having characters accidentally fall on top of each other is standard way to convey sexual tension (and has become cliche since), and it's usually the woman falling on top of the man, probably because the TV people think it makes for a better/more comfortable visual (because a man falling on top of a woman could be seen as more aggressive, because of the gender stereotypes). The only time I remember it being the other way round is in Agent Carter season 2 premiere, when it wasn't meant to signify sexual tension, but to mock the cliche and emphasize that those two characters have no sexual attraction to each other, to the point that not even the man's wife was the least bit concerned with the 'compromising' position (and the male character in question is just about the least aggressive or sexually threatening male you can imagine).

Stoney
17-03-18, 10:31 PM
This came to my mind, while reading the amazing reviews for Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa and Smashed in the season 6 review thread. I did not want to post it there, because it feels to be a bit silly a thought to post in that thread. But I feel safe here, with you my friends. I know, you won`t ridicule me for it (I bloody well hope.......)

There are four times, in the aforementioned three episodes, where Buffy and Spike are liying on the ground and in everyone of them, Buffy is lying on top of Spike.

The first time it happens in OMWF, when Spike and Buffy fall into the grave. There is definitely a sexual tension there, as American Aurora has pointed out in her wonderful review. The second time it happens very early in Tabula Rasa, when Spike is attacked by the loan sharks minions and Buffy jumps at him, to pull him to the ground. This scene has not got that much of a sexual undertone, but still.... The third Scene is also from Tabula Rasa, after Spike and Buffy have lost their memories and Joand discovers Randy is a vampire and straddles him, to hold him on the ground.

And the last scene is the last scene in Smashed, shortly after Spike and Buffy have fallen through to the basement level.

So, I was wondering, is it is just coincidental, that Buffy is always on top and if not, what does it signify ?

flow

Firstly you absolutely should post any questions/comments/thoughts in the rewatch thread. You will be totally welcome and there is no need to feel that you would be mocked! I think all the incidents that you mention were raised in the reviews because of the repetitive nature of the visual (I certainly was alluding to that when I said Buffy ended up on top again). :biggrin1: I do agree with TTB that it is a common visual but I do think that it was done very deliberately and specifically in the case of Buffy and Spike because they wanted to emphasise that as much as Buffy is torn and there is that push/pull between her and Spike that she has agency in what develops between them. They do raise issues of consent during the relationship and as we know we are heading to the events of Seeing Red. So I think they want to draw a line between these initial stages where there is some anger and resentment mixed up in the draw to each other and the passion they feel, along with the violent and dubious consent moments, and that bathroom scene where Spike is physically dominating and totally misjudges it.

Seriously, don't feel put off by the lengthy posts in the rewatch. We used to have more people contributing varying levels of comments on a more ad hoc basis. It would be great if more people posted on the thread. :nod:

TriBel
18-03-18, 12:04 PM
There are four times, in the aforementioned three episodes, where Buffy and Spike are liying on the ground and in everyone of them, Buffy is lying on top of Spike. The first time it happens in OMWF, when Spike and Buffy fall into the grave.

Aside from what Stoney said and slightly more abstract :confused3: (and I don't know whether this was covered in the reviews) - the earth is traditionally gendered as female. We see this explicitly in BtVS with Tara (Terra/Gaia) McClay (I'd want to investigate the patronymic "Mc" more closely). That Spike is usually underneath Buffy could be read as her using him to protect herself from the chthonic mother. Alternatively, that patriarchy has kept the truth of her origins from her. It's significant (I think) that the Shadow Men have her chained to the earth and that she breaks the chains but leaves the hasps intact. She'll re-establish contact with "the mother" but on her own terms. Certainly Spike being on the ground can be read as a replacement for the "earth" that's associated with Dracula (vampires needing a coffin of native earth to sleep in). See the symbolism thread that SpuffyGlitz has started. Closeness/distance from the earth is a trope I've seen used to similar effect - most recently in Reitz's Heimat.

Silver1
18-03-18, 01:51 PM
I'm a bit more blunt about It in that I just see It as a further reversal of gender roles as show in the media. Traditionally the women would be the one underneath, but here it is the man.

Also Spikes role in the later seasons and in his relationship with Buffy has erred more towards the traditional 'female' role in my eyes. The one that often need protecting and the one to follow her without question.

Priceless
18-03-18, 05:21 PM
How did Bailey Chase get the role of Graham? Did he even audition? He's just so wooden. He has to be the worst actor on the show.

GoSpuffy
18-03-18, 05:23 PM
I'm a bit more blunt about It in that I just see It as a further reversal of gender roles as show in the media. Traditionally the women would be the one underneath, but here it is the man.

Also Spikes role in the later seasons and in his relationship with Buffy has erred more towards the traditional 'female' role in my eyes. The one that often need protecting and the one to follow her without question.

Exactly how I saw it too

bespangled
19-03-18, 05:33 AM
This came to my mind, while reading the amazing reviews for Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa and Smashed in the season 6 review thread. I did not want to post it there, because it feels to be a bit silly a thought to post in that thread. But I feel safe here, with you my friends. I know, you won`t ridicule me for it (I bloody well hope.......)

There are four times, in the aforementioned three episodes, where Buffy and Spike are liying on the ground and in everyone of them, Buffy is lying on top of Spike.

The first time it happens in OMWF, when Spike and Buffy fall into the grave. There is definitely a sexual tension there, as American Aurora has pointed out in her wonderful review. The second time it happens very early in Tabula Rasa, when Spike is attacked by the loan sharks minions and Buffy jumps at him, to pull him to the ground. This scene has not got that much of a sexual undertone, but still.... The third Scene is also from Tabula Rasa, after Spike and Buffy have lost their memories and Joand discovers Randy is a vampire and straddles him, to hold him on the ground.

And the last scene is the last scene in Smashed, shortly after Spike and Buffy have fallen through to the basement level.

So, I was wondering, is it is just coincidental, that Buffy is always on top and if not, what does it signify ?

flow

I think we bring significance with us - rather than take it from the scenes. I'd say it means we know who is on top, and that Spike does not mind a bit of domination when it's the right person.

Priceless
28-03-18, 10:53 AM
Now I've seen a bit more of the Buffy baby I've pre-ordered the Stephanie Han cover for #1 S12. I don't think it's Buffy's baby so the Jeanty cover isn't as important, and if I'm wrong I can order it later.

I'm quite happy it isn't Buffy's baby (if it isn't)

Priceless
30-03-18, 10:11 AM
I didn't want to make a fuss about it, and I thought I'd get over it, but every time I see that Homecoming was voted out early from the Best Ep Thread, it makes me so angry :lol: It's a bloody amazing episode and there are worse episodes

TimeTravellingBunny
30-03-18, 11:15 AM
I didn't want to make a fuss about it, and I thought I'd get over it, but every time I see that Homecoming was voted out early from the Best Ep Thread, it makes me so angry :lol: It's a bloody amazing episode and there are worse episodes

It has the clothes fluke. That makes it one of the worst episodes of season 3 (and it's not like the rest of the episode is so spectacular to make up for it). It's certainly worse than any of the episodes remaining, and it's much worse than Amends, which is a very solid episode with many great moments though spoiled by the cheesy magic snow ending.

Priceless
30-03-18, 11:23 AM
It has the clothes fluke. That makes it one of the worst episodes of season 3 (and it's not like the rest of the episode is so spectacular to make up for it). It's certainly worse than any of the episodes remaining, and it's much worse than Amends, which is a very solid episode with many great moments though spoiled by the cheesy magic snow ending.

I don't mind Amends either, but Homecoming has some great Buffy/Cordy dialogue and Cordy is one of my favourite characters. Of course the clothes fluke is terrible, but what comes after is worse.

Stoney
30-03-18, 01:46 PM
S3 is a really consistent season, I'm not sure I 'dislike' any of the episodes in it. Cordy had some great moments in Homecoming, but there is good in most eps and the clothes fluke was the worst thing about the season (only because it went on for more than the single episode, otherwise it would be even with the magic snow). Lovers Walk has more fluking of course, but the episode generally is stronger to brush over that (and, Spike of course :p).

You can always argue your case for an episode during the voting on the best episodes thread itself Pricey. You might raise something that one of the other voters had forgotten or not appreciated and they then could stop voting against it. Definitely speak up if you think there are reasons it shouldn't be going the way it is, it might make a difference. :noidea:

bespangled
31-03-18, 03:02 AM
What clothes fluke?

Stoney
31-03-18, 03:30 AM
What clothes fluke?

Willow and Xander's kissing...

Xander: (points at her) That didn't just happen!
Willow: No! (gestures nervously) I mean, it did, but it didn't!
Xander: Because I respect you. And Oz. And I would never...
Willow: (furrows her brow) I would never, either! I-it must be the
clothes. I-it's a fluke.
Xander: It's a clothes fluke, that's what it is. And there'll be no
more fluking.

flow
07-04-18, 04:37 PM
In School Hard, when Buffy and Spike fight for the first time, they both have weapons at the beginning. Spike has a metal pole, similar to the pole, he used in his fight with Nikki and Buffy has the axe, that is later used by Joyce to hit Spike on the head.

It is Buffy, who suggests, that they fight without weapons and Spike happily obliges.

But to whom was it really an advantage, to give up the weapons ?

In Fool For Love Spike says, he always has his weapon, while the Slayer has to grab for hers. It would therefore seem, as if a fist fight would give Spike an advantage. This theory would be supported by the fact, that Buffy does actually loose this fight (and I think, it is the only fight, she ever looses against him) and has to be rescued with exactly the axe, she had thrown aside earlier.

On the other hand Spike did win the fight against Nikki, in which he was using a similar weapon. He also is left handed, which probably gives you an advantage in a fight with weapons. I am not sure, if you have the same advantage as a left handed person in a fist fight. And last, not least, it was Buffy, who suggested to give up the weapons, not Spike.

What do you think ? Whose mistake was it, to toss his or hers weapon aside ?

flow

Stoney
07-04-18, 07:55 PM
Buffy shouldn't have thrown her weapon away imo. A vampire's fangs are a limited weapon, but if they manage to overpower or get close enough of course they can use them to win. So yeah, Spike throwing down the bar he was holding doesn't disarm him to the same extent that Buffy is by losing the axe.

betta
10-04-18, 01:32 AM
Watching Trust, and the American guy is in Italy talking to an Italian Inspector about the kidnapping of John Paul Getty III (something that haunted my childhood with the whole chopped ear business), and I swear to you that it goes exactly like this:

ILONA: No, no, no, no! No, no. The two of you are so precious. But no! This is a civilized country. We do these things all the time. Somebody gets kidnapped, somebody pays the money. Everybody goes home happy. Grazie. Prego. Kiss-kiss.

bespangled
10-04-18, 01:56 AM
The answer is here:

BUFFY
So how'd you kill her?

Spike moves behind Buffy.

SPIKE
Funny you should ask.

His hand whips out and takes her by the neck. She institutionally reacts, bringing the pool cue up as a weapon but Spike holds her at bay.

SPIKE
Lesson the first: a Slayer must always reach for her weapon.

His face shifts as the demon in him comes forward.

SPIKE
I've already got mine.
.
I think Spike knew that he could take an unarmed slayer - and he would have without her family an friends.

TriBel
10-04-18, 09:23 AM
@ bespangled
She institutionally reacts,? I'm presuming that's a misuse of the term? If not, it's entering a nature/nurture debate!

@ flow
It is Buffy, who suggests, that they fight without weapons and Spike happily obliges. But to whom was it really an advantage, to give up the weapons ?

Oh...just thought...fast forward to S7 and the Potential prologue - the opening fight when she straddles him and tries to lift his shirt. His hand encloses hers – except for her thumb. Thumbs are necessary to hold weapons. AtS5 acknowledges this: Illyria: “Your breed is fragile. How is they came to control this world?” Knox: “Opposable thumbs. Fire. Television”. ("Shells"). In Potential the light catches the nail as it would a knife blade. While he has control, she could wrest it back. She doesn't because she sees the grimace on his face. Love/War - the face wins. It's probably another version of caveman/astronauts.

Priceless
10-04-18, 03:04 PM
http://tvline.com/2018/04/09/tv-memorabilia-props-auction-gilmore-girls-buffy-swag/

Went on Ebay to check out the Buffy item this journo was selling, and it's a Buffy v Dracula vampire teeth, given to journalists to celebrate the start of Season 5. They look cool, and I know it's for charity, but $100 seems a bit steep, along with $14 p&p. Anyone tempted??

HardlyThere
10-04-18, 03:21 PM
In School Hard, when Buffy and Spike fight for the first time, they both have weapons at the beginning. Spike has a metal pole, similar to the pole, he used in his fight with Nikki and Buffy has the axe, that is later used by Joyce to hit Spike on the head.

It is Buffy, who suggests, that they fight without weapons and Spike happily obliges.

But to whom was it really an advantage, to give up the weapons ?

In Fool For Love Spike says, he always has his weapon, while the Slayer has to grab for hers. It would therefore seem, as if a fist fight would give Spike an advantage. This theory would be supported by the fact, that Buffy does actually loose this fight (and I think, it is the only fight, she ever looses against him) and has to be rescued with exactly the axe, she had thrown aside earlier.

On the other hand Spike did win the fight against Nikki, in which he was using a similar weapon. He also is left handed, which probably gives you an advantage in a fight with weapons. I am not sure, if you have the same advantage as a left handed person in a fist fight. And last, not least, it was Buffy, who suggested to give up the weapons, not Spike.

What do you think ? Whose mistake was it, to toss his or hers weapon aside ?

flow

Hers for thinking he wouldn't cheat. Remember, he doesn't get an upperhand until he hits her with a 2x4 piece of wood.

bespangled
10-04-18, 09:48 PM
Cheat? Is that really cheating when you're having a fight to the death? Just seems like an odd notion.

TimeTravellingBunny
10-04-18, 11:31 PM
Cheat? Is that really cheating when you're having a fight to the death? Just seems like an odd notion.

That was Buffy's problem in that fight - Spike clearly got under her skin immediately with his bragging and threats, as well as the stories she heard from Giles and Angel about him as the killer of Slayers and a dangerous and determined guy, and she really wanted to show off and prove how good she is while beating him. She wasn't thinking very pragmatically.

- - - Updated - - -



(and I think, it is the only fight, she ever looses against him)

You are right.

If I remember all their fights: in Halloween, she easily kicks his butt. In What's My Line pt 2, they switch fighting partners and fight for a little while, Spike then runs to help Drusilla finish the ceremony, at one point gets distracted by Willy running away and tries to stop him, and Buffy brings the accordion down on him. In The Harsh Light of Day, she wins and he has to run away again. Then he's chipped and don't have real fights for a long time. And finally, the fight in Smashed is a draw, as it ends with both of them, err, losing interest in that sort of physical activity due to a more enjoyable one.

HardlyThere
10-04-18, 11:43 PM
Cheat? Is that really cheating when you're having a fight to the death? Just seems like an odd notion.

If you agree to no weapons and then surreptitiously pull out and use a weapon, yes that would be cheating.

- - - Updated - - -


That was Buffy's problem in that fight - Spike clearly got under her skin immediately with his bragging and threats, as well as the stories she heard from Giles and Angel about him as the killer of Slayers and a dangerous and determined guy, and she really wanted to show off and prove how good she is while beating him. She wasn't thinking very pragmatically.

- - - Updated - - -


You are right.

If I remember all their fights: in Halloween, she easily kicks his butt. In What's My Line pt 2, they switch fighting partners and fight for a little while, Spike then runs to help Drusilla finish the ceremony, at one point gets distracted by Willy running away and tries to stop him, and Buffy brings the accordion down on him. In The Harsh Light of Day, she wins and he has to run away again. Then he's chipped and don't have real fights for a long time. And finally, the fight in Smashed is a draw, as it ends with both of them, err, losing interest in that sort of physical activity due to a more enjoyable one.

I don't think either were trying to win in Smashed. They are just taking out pent up emotions on each other.

MikeB
11-04-18, 12:17 AM
This could easily be its own thread topic, but:


Buffy in "Something Blue" (B 4.09) was going to marry SPIKE, not William. That's literally something I just realized a few seconds before typing this post. It's another thing from Buffy/Spike in "SB" that was true or turned out to be true. Buffy doesn't even know William's surname.

debbicles
11-04-18, 09:52 AM
Exactly how I saw it too

:lol:that's where my (filthy) mind went on that, too!
However as always I would say that there is room for a more subtle interpretation. Perhaps linking into the notion that Spike's presence in S6 and S7 kept Buffy "grounded"? Hence her apparently drifting in S8?

Priceless
11-04-18, 07:43 PM
Watching I Was Made To Love You (sure this has been mentioned before, but it's the first time I've taken any real note of it) when Giles attacks Spike in the Magic Box, they are next to the men's toilet, which has a picture of a man and a wheelchair on it, which made me wonder if this is a metaphor. Giles is the man, Spike has been in a wheelchair and is currently disabled by the chip, so cannot fight back

HardlyThere
11-04-18, 07:48 PM
I think it just means handicap accessible bathrooms are a law in Cali.

Priceless
11-04-18, 08:06 PM
I think it just means handicap accessible bathrooms are a law in Cali.

But why have it right there, in the scene? Why have a toilet at all? It's a tv show, the Magic Box doesn't have to adhere to Cali law ;)

TriBel
11-04-18, 08:15 PM
Watching I Was Made To Love You (sure this has been mentioned before, but it's the first time I've taken any real note of it) when Giles attacks Spike in the Magic Box, they are next to the men's toilet, which has a picture of a man and a wheelchair on it, which made me wonder if this is a metaphor. Giles is the man, Spike has been in a wheelchair and is currently disabled by the chip, so cannot fight back

Hardly There
I think it just means handicap accessible bathrooms are a law in Cali.

Both work simultaneously. As Hardly There says - the symbol is working at what we can call the denotative level to signify wheelchair accessible. However, if they didn't want it in the shot they'd have edited it out (the fact that this is a set means they've deliberately positioned the sign). In all likelihood, it's there to underscore meaning. It's like those pictures on the stairs at Revello - sometimes the camera angle, lens etc draws the eye to them (ST,SP; GiD in S7), at other times they're present but don't intrude.

HardlyThere
11-04-18, 08:18 PM
Well, they're not going to move the set around for it. It's there because it's meant to be a place of business.

Priceless
11-04-18, 08:33 PM
Well, they're not going to move the set around for it. It's there because it's meant to be a place of business.

It's a tv show, they don't need to show a bathroom. Whenever they do show the inside of a bathroom it's always pretty significant.

As TriBel says, they could have edited the sign out, so maybe it was simply an accident that it added an extra layer to the scene and maybe wasn't placed there deliberately. I shall look at that space when they show the interior of the Magic Box again and see if it's still there

HardlyThere
11-04-18, 09:02 PM
It's a tv show, they don't need to show a bathroom. Whenever they do show the inside of a bathroom it's always pretty significant.

As TriBel says, they could have edited the sign out, so maybe it was simply an accident that it added an extra layer to the scene and maybe wasn't placed there deliberately. I shall look at that space when they show the interior of the Magic Box again and see if it's still there

There are signs all over the place. Candles or this or that. No shoplifting signs. In Smashed, there's a strange pan-up from behind a dragon statue overlooking the gang.

And yes, you can see the sign again in Two To Go.

flow
11-04-18, 09:18 PM
Hers for thinking he wouldn't cheat. Remember, he doesn't get an upperhand until he hits her with a 2x4 piece of wood.

I have never noticed that before. Why did she trust him? I wonder, if there is a parallel with any other vampire or demon, where she negotiates the fighting conditions beforehand.

But in the end she would have had to cheat as well. He pulled out that piece of wood, but she would have pulled out a stake, had she won.

flow

Priceless
11-04-18, 09:24 PM
I have never noticed that before. Why did she trust him? I wonder, if there is a parallel with any other vampire or demon, where she negotiates the fighting conditions beforehand.


i think Buffy often tries to negotiate with the demons she fights, but they usually too angry or stupid to understand. Spike picks up on the bantering aspect straight away, the fact that they can talk and communicate (and flirt) Most demons don't want to communicate with the Slayer, they just want to kill.

HardlyThere
11-04-18, 09:26 PM
I have never noticed that before. Why did she trust him? I wonder, if there is a parallel with any other vampire or demon, where she negotiates the fighting conditions beforehand.

But in the end she would have had to cheat as well. He pulled out that piece of wood, but she would have pulled out a stake, had she won.

flow

A stake in a fight is not really a weapon, but a means of dispatch.

Or she could have just ripped his head off.

bespangled
12-04-18, 03:00 AM
A stake in a fight is not really a weapon, but a means of dispatch.

Or she could have just ripped his head off.

How is a stake not a weapon when you are fighting a vampire?

betta
20-04-18, 02:52 AM
I was switching channels and stopped to see what The Magicians was about (didn't like it), and this conversation happened - I googled it, it's from S3, ep 2 Heroes and Morons:

Eliot: Ugh, god. What a cliche.
Margo: The baby that becomes a teenager practically overnight?
Eliot: Right? Angel.
Margo: Twilight.
Eliot: Buffy.
Margo: Technically, Buffy’s sister was never a baby. She just appeared out of nowhere. And oh my god. Two months without dick and I sound like Quentin.
Eliot: The point is, only a creature from the land TV for God would think anyone would fall for how shockingly original this is.

I think it's the first time I see Angel been mentioned on a TV show...

HardlyThere
20-04-18, 03:02 AM
How is a stake not a weapon when you are fighting a vampire?

Because it's a means of dispatch. Other than that, is it useful? Can you parry and deflect with it like a sword? Can you strike or block with it like a staff? Can you slice your opponent with it like a knife? Can you chop an arm, leg or head off with it like an axe? No. It's pretty much useful for killing blows only. You have to surprise or subdue your opponent by other means.

bespangled
20-04-18, 03:40 AM
Do you watch the show?

People stake vampires from beyond all the time. Buffy got staked with her own stake and wasn't dispatched. That's a weapon. It can be used for close contact, or thrown.

There are all sorts of forms of fighting, and all sorts of weapons.

HardlyThere
20-04-18, 11:54 AM
Not for vampires. :) Ask Kakistos.

Silver1
20-04-18, 12:13 PM
Err like a Vampire isn't a Slayer a weapon in herself? The stake is just a part of that.

HardlyThere
20-04-18, 12:17 PM
Err like a Vampire isn't a Slayer a weapon in herself? The stake is just a part of that.

No, it's a weapon! Slayers cheat!

Silver1
20-04-18, 12:18 PM
Holding a 'stick' isn't cheating, for as the old phrase goes "It's what you do with it that counts" :roll:

TimeTravellingBunny
20-04-18, 08:57 PM
Err like a Vampire isn't a Slayer a weapon in herself? The stake is just a part of that.

Not really. She can't dust a vampire without a weapon. She could kill a human without a weapon, but for a vampire, she needs either a sharp wooden object or a sharp weapon that can cut a vampire's head. At least dueing night - during the day she can also expose them to direct sunlight.

Silver1
20-04-18, 09:12 PM
I think that If push came to shove she could twist their bloody heads off. :lol:

TimeTravellingBunny
20-04-18, 10:53 PM
I think that If push came to shove she could twist their bloody heads off. :lol:
As far as we are aware, that doesn't kill a vampire - since no one ever tried to kill them that way. As for ripping their heads of, we've never seen a Slayer do it, either, so I'm assuming it can't be done even with Slayer strength.

Ebdim9th
20-04-18, 11:32 PM
I wonder if palm-flat shoving his nose up into his brain would make any difference.... maybe it would distract him while you snapped off a piece of wood from somewhere nearby and impaled him with it ....

TriBel
20-04-18, 11:48 PM
As far as we are aware, that doesn't kill a vampire - since no one ever tried to kill them that way. As for ripping their heads of, we've never seen a Slayer do it, either, so I'm assuming it can't be done even with Slayer strength.

Didn't she dust one by trapping its head in a car door in All the Way?

Why can't a stake be a method of dispatch if it kills and a weapon if it only wounds? Dawn wounded one with a stake in Lessons and Buffy finished it off. Oh...and cigarette lighters! What's all that about? :)

Edit:

Except in Lessons Buffy grabs a sword and cuts his head off! Sigh...all I know is "the stake is not the power". :sadwalk:

bespangled
21-04-18, 08:40 AM
Err like a Vampire isn't a Slayer a weapon in herself? The stake is just a part of that.

I'd agree with you if we hadn't seen non slayers stake vamps. Even so, if the sword you take a vamp's head off with is a weapon, how can a stake not be a weapon? Still not getting the distinction here.

Silver1
21-04-18, 09:46 AM
"the stake is not the power"

Exactly. There's your answer. :D

TriBel
21-04-18, 09:59 AM
Exactly. There's your answer. :D

Is it? :confused: Yay me! And I wasn't even trying very hard. :D

KingofCretins
21-04-18, 07:53 PM
I would bet Buffy can generate the machine force to manually decapitate a vampire, but as a practical matter, this isn't going to happen unless it is completely incapacitated, so why bother?

bespangled
21-04-18, 09:48 PM
If Spike and Angel can do it then so can Buffy.

HardlyThere
22-04-18, 02:51 AM
I would bet Buffy can generate the machine force to manually decapitate a vampire, but as a practical matter, this isn't going to happen unless it is completely incapacitated, so why bother?

Because the whole topic is a display of sophistry because someone said their woobie broke the agreed upon rule in School Hard.

flow
22-04-18, 08:21 AM
I am confused now. Weren‘t you the one, who said that?

flow

flow
25-04-18, 03:50 PM
I know that this is a very random question, but maybe someone remembers it:

When did Spike adress Buffy by her name for the first time? He adresses her as Slayer quite often and uses pet and cutie as well in season2. I also remember, that he calls her Betty in Superstar. But what about Buffy?

flow

Priceless
25-04-18, 09:19 PM
Going to pre-order Season 12 #2 and I'm torn between the Noto cover and the Hans. I don't like the Jeanty so much. I will probably go with the Hans, as I ordered her cover for #1

TriBel
25-04-18, 09:25 PM
Apparently (according to something I've read "elsewhere"), women only like Spike because he's a bad boy trope and because they're the sort of women who like 50 Shades of Grey. I swear to God, I'm going to write a PhD on Spike.

Priceless
25-04-18, 09:41 PM
Apparently (according to something I've read "elsewhere"), women only like Spike because he's a bad boy trope and because they're the sort of women who like 50 Shades of Grey. I swear to God, I'm going to write a PhD on Spike.

You know what I think of 'elsewhere', it's a hell dimension (trapped in a snow globe :D) To actually believe that sort of nonsense surely has overtones of misogyny. It's trying to reduce things that are popular with women, to make them seem of less worth then the things men like. What's wrong with the bad boy trope? It's worked since cavemen told stories in wall paintings and it works for a reason. And what's wrong with 50 Shades of Grey, what 'sort of ' women like that? I'll tell you what 'sort' - your mum and your sister and your girlfriend :bleh: :lol:

flow
25-04-18, 09:45 PM
Apparently (according to something I've read "elsewhere"), women only like Spike because he's a bad boy trope and because they're the sort of women who like 50 Shades of Grey. I swear to God, I'm going to write a PhD on Spike.

I went, I looked, I laughed about it.

flow

GoSpuffy
25-04-18, 10:26 PM
Apparently (according to something I've read "elsewhere"), women only like Spike because he's a bad boy trope and because they're the sort of women who like 50 Shades of Grey. I swear to God, I'm going to write a PhD on Spike.

I keep telling you, there's no "elsewhere". Put on your ruby slippers and repeat after me....there's no place like home, there's no place like home. Feel the sanity flow into you.

betta
25-04-18, 10:30 PM
You know what I think of 'elsewhere', it's a hell dimension (trapped in a snow globe :D)

I wonder what place you all are talking about.

Wait a minute... hell dimension? There can be only one, and it's not Highlander! :rotf:

Stoney
26-04-18, 01:06 PM
I know that this is a very random question, but maybe someone remembers it:

When did Spike adress Buffy by her name for the first time? He adresses her as Slayer quite often and uses pet and cutie as well in season2. I also remember, that he calls her Betty in Superstar. But what about Buffy?

flow

I've been reading through the transcripts (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/transcripts/) and if they are accurate (because sometimes there are blips and I haven't checked these are correct) he first refers to her as Buffy in Passion...


Spike: What if she did? If you ask me, I find myself preferring the old
Buffy-whipped Angelus. This new, improved one is not playing with a full
sack. (gets a look from Angelus) I love a good slaughter as much as the
next bloke, but his little pranks will only leave us with one incredibly
brassed-off Slayer!

Now I would have said that he says 'slayer-whipped', but the transcript may well be right. He then calls her Buffy to Willow in Lovers Walk...


Spike: It was that truce with Buffy that did it. Dru said I'd gone
soft. Wasn't demon enough for the likes of her. And I told her it didn't
mean anything, I was thinking of her the whole time, but she didn't
care. So, we got to Brazil, and she was... she was just different. I
gave her everything: beautiful jewels, beautiful dresses with beautiful
girls in them, but nothing made her happy. And she would fliiirt!
(sniffs) I caught her on a park bench, making out with a *chaos* demon!
Have you ever seen a chaos demon? They're all slime and antlers. They're
disgusting.

Then in Something Blue he refers to her name to her...


Spike: Where as the name Buffy gives it that touch of classic elegance.
Buffy: What's wrong with Buffy?

and later, he calls out her name to her...


(Cut to Buffy being choked by a demon who's reached through a window.)
Spike: Buffy!

but, as it was under a spell I kept looking. Once the spell is broken in SB he refers to her name again...


Spike: Well, I gotta have something. I still have Buffy taste in my mouth.
Buffy: You're a pig, Spike.

He refers to her again twice by name in Doomed...


Spike: “*Buffy* fights the forces of evil. You’re her groupies. She’d do just as well without you – better I’d wager, since she wouldn’t have to go about saving your hides all the time.”


Spike: “What’s this? Sitting around watching the telly while there’s evil still a foot. (Turns the TV off) That’s not very industrious of you. I say we go out there (Rubs his hands together) and kick a little demon ass! (Xander and Willow stare at him) What, can’t go without your Buffy, is that it?

And again he refers to her by name in Where the Wild Things Are...


SPIKE: I know I'm not the first choice for heroics ... (drops his cigarette and grinds it out with his foot) and Buffy's tried to kill me more than once. And, I don't fancy a single one of you at all. But... (pauses) Actually, all that sounds pretty convincing. (Frowns, shakes his head and walks away.) I wonder if Danger Mouse is on.

Again, it is by reference in Yoko Factor...


Spike: Ah. (he takes out a transfusion blood bag) Knew I left one. (closes fridge) Buffy around?

And then again by reference with Harmony in OOMM...


SPIKE: (skeptical) Buffy's looking for you.

And then finally!!! directly to her later in the same episode, when the thinks the chip has been taken out...


SPIKE: Buffy. I swear I was just thinking of you. I wanted to tell you the great news. My head's all clear now. No more bug-zapper in my noggin.

If those are all accurate transcriptions.

:D

flow
26-04-18, 08:46 PM
Stoney, I owe you! Thank you so much, you are the best!

He never calls her Buffy directly then, until OOMM, except for the time, they were engaged (or under a spell) in SB. That is awesome. Or maybe it is a bit sad. But it fits, because he realizeses in OOMM, that he is in love with her.

flow

Stoney
26-04-18, 10:32 PM
Stoney, I owe you! Thank you so much, you are the best!

He never calls her Buffy directly then, until OOMM, except for the time, they were engaged (or under a spell) in SB. That is awesome. Or maybe it is a bit sad. But it fits, because he realizeses in OOMM, that he is in love with her.

Reading through Spike's lines was no hardship, honestly. I had to get myself to stop and do other things once I'd found the answer. :D

So unless I missed any, there are plenty of occasions where he refers to her by name, just not when speaking to her directly (sans spell) until OOMM. And then of course, after his realisation, in the very next episode No Place Like Home there is the very direct occasion when she finds him hanging around outside and he says her name almost shyly, but then ends up calling her names and throwing insults like a child. :lol:


Buffy walks down the front steps and is halfway across the lawn when
she stops, sensing something. She reaches behind a tree and yanks
SPIKE out into the yard.

BUFFY
Spike.

SPIKE
Hi, Buffy.

BUFFY
Don't take this the wrong way but...

She socks him in the nose.

SPIKE
Ow!

BUFFY
What are you doing here? Five words or less.

Spike counts the words on his fingers.

SPIKE
Out... for... a... walk... bitch.

BUFFY
Out for a walk at night by my house. No one has time for this,
William.

SPIKE
On your merry way, then. You know, contrary to one's self-involved
world-view, your house happens to be directly between parts... and
other parts of this town. And I would pass by in the day but I feel
I'm outgrowing my whole "burst into flame" phase.

BUFFY
Fine. Keep going, I cut you a break.

SPIKE
Oh, yeah. Okay, let me guess... you won't kill me? Wooo... the whole
crowd-pleasing threats-and-swagger routine. How stunningly
original. You know, I'm just passing through. Satisfied? You know, I
really hope so because God knows you need some satisfaction in life
besides shagging Captain Cardboard and I never really liked you anyway
and... and you have stupid hair.

Now is that the first time she calls him William???

:xd

flow
27-04-18, 06:56 AM
Yes it is! I have never noticed this before, but she calls him William for the first time, after he has realized he is in love with her.

The second time she calls him William is, when she breaks up with him in AYW. She refers to him as William the Bloody in season 7, but she does not adress him as William anymore. At least, if I remember it correctly.

flow

Priceless
27-04-18, 08:25 PM
I don't remember as much of AtS as I do BtVS obviously, but does anyone know when Giles found out Spike was 'alive'? Does Andrew tell him after 'Damage'? Do we ever see Giles find out?

Fool for Buffy
27-04-18, 08:31 PM
I don't remember as much of AtS as I do BtVS obviously, but does anyone know when Giles found out Spike was 'alive'? Does Andrew tell him after 'Damage'? Do we ever see Giles find out?
Spike tells Andrew not to tell Buffy, which I thought kinda implied don’t tell anyone. We see Angel call Giles after the death of Fred, but there’s no indication of Spike being involved in that conversation. So I don’t think we know when Giles finds out, or any other BTVS characters for that matter.

Priceless
27-04-18, 08:39 PM
Spike tells Andrew not to tell Buffy, which I thought kinda implied don’t tell anyone. We see Angel call Giles after the death of Fred, but there’s no indication of Spike being involved in that conversation. So I don’t think we know when Giles finds out, or any other BTVS characters for that matter.

So you don't think Andrew would tell Giles? I think it's in Andrew's nature to tell someone. I'm in the process of watching AtS S5 at the moment but I haven't got to that point yet.

debbicles
27-04-18, 09:05 PM
I wasn't keen on Ted when I first watched it but on rewatches I've come to really love John Ritter's performance. The quality of the casting is a big part of why BtVS is so good.

John Ritter was a class act. I always enjoyed watching him. He did lots of stuff long before Buffy, even had his own show at one point.

flow
27-04-18, 09:05 PM
I don`t think, it is ever mentioned if and how Giles found out about Spike being alive in AtS season 5. Is there anything in the comics? Buffy mentions, that she kicked some doors, did she tell, if Giles `door was among them?

flow

debbicles
27-04-18, 09:34 PM
Apparently (according to something I've read "elsewhere"), women only like Spike because he's a bad boy trope and because they're the sort of women who like 50 Shades of Grey. I swear to God, I'm going to write a PhD on Spike.
And I hope when you publish it, we all get to read it. I'd pay!

- - - Updated - - -


I don`t think, it is ever mentioned if and how Giles found out about Spike being alive in AtS season 5. Is there anything in the comics? Buffy mentions, that she kicked some doors, did she tell, if Giles `door was among them?

flow

Don't think we ever find out.

Ebdim9th
27-04-18, 09:53 PM
Stoney *plink* goes the penny (Great moment when Spike found out he wasn't unchipped after all ....)

Priceless
27-04-18, 11:11 PM
I don`t think, it is ever mentioned if and how Giles found out about Spike being alive in AtS season 5. Is there anything in the comics? Buffy mentions, that she kicked some doors, did she tell, if Giles `door was among them?

flow

Thanks flow. it's mentioned that Buffy kicked down doors, but I think that's in a non-canon comic. Until I'm told differenly, I'm just going to head canon that Andrew couldn't keep it a secret and told Giles.:)

Stoney
28-04-18, 02:55 AM
Stoney *plink* goes the penny (Great moment when Spike found out he wasn't unchipped after all ....)

:biggrin1:


Thanks flow. it's mentioned that Buffy kicked down doors, but I think that's in a non-canon comic. Until I'm told differenly, I'm just going to head canon that Andrew couldn't keep it a secret and told Giles.:)

The kicked down doors when she found out comment was Willow talking to Spike about Buffy's response when she saw him in the Spike 8 comics I think. I treat that as canon as Joss wrote Willow's lines I believe. Of course it still had to fit in with Lynch's story that Joss was being allowed to use to introduce the bugship, in exchange for getting to use Willow, but as that line has nothing to do with the Lynch of the story I think it's fair to see it as Joss' just like the bugship. I haven't read it for a while but I think that was all that was said really. I don't remember hearing anything about how Giles found out so that could still have been from Andrew.

Priceless
30-04-18, 07:43 PM
I have just tweeted Erika Alexander to tell her how great the Giles is and how much I'm enjoying it. I mentioned the Buffy Forum too :D

betta
30-04-18, 08:16 PM
I have just tweeted Erika Alexander to tell her how great the Giles is and how much I'm enjoying it. I mentioned the Buffy Forum too :D

Great minds think alike - I did it too, on Saturday! I felt I needed to compliment the issue, so intriguing!

Priceless
30-04-18, 08:42 PM
Great minds think alike - I did it too, on Saturday! I felt I needed to compliment the issue, so intriguing!

Lol, that's great and she deserves the praise, it was really good :D

Priceless
02-05-18, 09:05 PM
I wonder if a good guide to whether you're a grown up is how you respond to Dawn. I think you have to have a certain level of maturity to have real affection and pity for Dawn Summers and what she has to go through as a child. If you are still a child, you see her as an immature whiner who's just annoying and you despise her for her weaknesses.

GoSpuffy
03-05-18, 05:03 AM
I found her annoying on first watch. Now I'm very fond of her. I think seeing her mature in the comics helped. Also there was that intense indoctrination that Pricey put me through.

Priceless
05-05-18, 11:27 AM
Random Angel related thought - watching Smile Time and am so fed up with Wesley. Couple of episodes ago he shot his father for being mean to Fred, now she's trying to ask him to share the journey to work with her, and he's supposedly so dumb he doesn't even pick up on it. I guess the writers thought this would be sweet, and oh look how lacking in confidence Wes is, he doesn't think Fred could possibly like him. When in reality it's just so annoying and has gone on too long, and this is the guy who had the weird relationship with Lilah . . . it just irritates me so much.

Silver1
05-05-18, 12:09 PM
OOOh no, I thought all that worked very well with Wes. I mean his entire life he's lacked confidence and so of course after all the Gunn thing he's not going to get his hopes up again.

But then I admit I loved Wes in AtS. :)

TriBel
05-05-18, 06:42 PM
OOOh no, I thought all that worked very well with Wes. I mean his entire life he's lacked confidence and so of course after all the Gunn thing he's not going to get his hopes up again.

But then I admit I loved Wes in AtS. :)

Psst Silver - keep this to yourself but, personally, I think Priceless is in denial about her feelings for Wes. :sneaky: Spike's just a smoke screen....:)

Priceless
06-05-18, 08:56 AM
Psst Silver - keep this to yourself but, personally, I think Priceless is in denial about her feelings for Wes. :sneaky: Spike's just a smoke screen....:)

You've nearly discovered my secret, forget Spuffy, I'm really a Spesley shipper :p

bespangled
06-05-18, 10:19 AM
You've nearly discovered my secret, forget Spuffy, I'm really a Spesley shipper :p

The Blind Man and a Fool to Lead Him (https://archiveofourown.org/works/6440650)
Spoilers for series ends and AtS5. Lorne summons Spike to Las Vegas asking a favor of him--to take a damaged Wesley to the Watchers in England, and protect him along the way.

Works for me!

TimeTravellingBunny
06-05-18, 04:02 PM
Apparently (according to something I've read "elsewhere"), women only like Spike because he's a bad boy trope and because they're the sort of women who like 50 Shades of Grey. I swear to God, I'm going to write a PhD on Spike.

My first reaction to those kinds of comments:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

A more elaborate response - this just reminded me of my old snarky Tumblr post (http://travllingbunny.tumblr.com/post/156020716968/what-even-is-a-draco-in-leather-pants) about the existence of the "Draco in the Leather Pants" supposed 'trope' and its TV Tropes page, and one great reply I got from Tumblr user dinamitlove:

http://dinamitelove.tumblr.com/post/157162482013/what-even-is-a-draco-in-leather-pants




And I go about the strikethrough, it’s half joke ahalf true, because that’s were most of those examples were pointing at. There was that horrible sexist assumtion that has been around since fiction became massive about the dangers of women consuming it, because their “highly sensitive minds could not distinguish fiction from reality” and that could be dangerous for society (see Madame Bovary). That idea got married with the “Nice guys finish last” idea to create this trope. Although I have to say that recently, I’ve been seeing it around here amongst female bloggers to attack other fangirls. I guess this idea became an easy way to attack other fangirls for liking stuff I don’t like.

and my reply, where I even mention 50 Shades of Grey and the cultural response to it: http://travllingbunny.tumblr.com/post/157250769873/what-even-is-a-draco-in-leather-pants

flow
10-05-18, 05:41 PM
In As You Were Spike and Buffy are kissing and (probably but off screen) are having sex under a tree in front of Buffy`s house after Spike has said "I can`t go inside".

Wyh can`t he go inside?

flow

Priceless
10-05-18, 06:22 PM
In As You Were Spike and Buffy are kissing and (probably but off screen) are having sex under a tree in front of Buffy`s house after Spike has said "I can`t go inside".

Wyh can`t he go inside?

flow

Spike and Buffy want to have sex, and they can't do that in the house because Dawn's inside and Buffy doesn't want Dawn to know she and Spike are having sex

flow
10-05-18, 06:29 PM
Well first thing, he could just have sneaked in through Buffy`s bedroom window and they could have had sex without Dawn knowing about it as long as they`d kept it silent.

Second thing - wouldn`t he then say "we can`t go inside" or "we can`t have sex inside" ?

flow

Priceless
10-05-18, 06:36 PM
Well first thing, he could just have sneaked in through Buffy`s bedroom window and they could have had sex without Dawn knowing about it as long as they`d kept it silent.

Second thing - wouldn`t he then say "we can`t go inside" or "we can`t have sex inside" ?

flow

Buffy is telling him he can't go inside because Dawn's in there.

Buffy's just getting home from work, with dinner for Dawn, so I think it'd be too early to go to bed and look too suspicious to Dawn maybe?

GoSpuffy
10-05-18, 07:30 PM
And if you believe all the fan fics they can't be silent. Not with all those multiple o's happening. Not sure I can say that word in a post but u get my meaning

flow
10-05-18, 07:40 PM
I have no clue. What is happening? Ossifying? Oscillating? Ogling? Oiling? Oxygenating?

Surely, Dawn wouldn`t have minded that at all.....:roll:

flow

Priceless
10-05-18, 07:47 PM
And if you believe all the fan fics they can't be silent. Not with all those multiple o's happening. Not sure I can say that word in a post but u get my meaning

Don't believe everything you read in fanfic, Buffy was pretty quiet in the balcony . . . so it is possible.