PDA

View Full Version : Random Buffy Related Thoughts



Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5]

SpuffyGlitz
05-01-19, 08:25 PM
She's 30 - she says "I mean, I'm 30..." etc in one panel in #1. Interesting that Willow's girlfriend's name is Lake!

Priceless
05-01-19, 08:27 PM
Wasn't it Lake? It was something that went with a willow!! :p

I don't know about age but I think it was suggested she was heading towards 30 and reassessing life at that age. ]

Following the experience of the camp I think a focus on bridging the two worlds she is part of makes some kind of sense.

Thanks Stoney, yes it was Lake!

For some reason I thought she was 28, but I don't remember if her age was actually mentioned. But then I also remember people mentioning that it was about time she was accurately aged :noidea: Yes, reassessing her life makes sense as she approaches 30, though of course I don't support her reassessing Spike out of the door :D

- - - Updated - - -


She's 30 - she says "I mean, I'm 30..." etc in one panel in #1.

Thank you SpuffyGlitz! I thought it had been mentioned.

a thing of evil
05-01-19, 08:30 PM
Her name was Lake Stevens. She served no purpose, other than to prove that Joss was still involved in the writing of those comics because Willows grow near lakes, g-get it? is exactly the type of eye roll inducing rubbish Whedon finds clever.

Priceless
05-01-19, 08:44 PM
Her name was Lake Stevens. She served no purpose, other than to prove that Joss was still involved in the writing of those comics because Willows grow near lakes, g-get it? is exactly the type of eye roll inducing rubbish Whedon finds clever.

I do remember her. She and Willow have a scene in a fancy restaurant. I'll have to re-read the season to see how I feel about their relationship. I don't have any strong memories of liking or disliking Lake.

flow
05-01-19, 08:47 PM
Lake Stevens! (She came up in season 11, that`s how I know.) Didn`t the writer say Buffy is 30 in season 12?

flow

a thing of evil
05-01-19, 10:24 PM
I don't have any strong memories of liking or disliking Lake.

I don't think anybody has because Lake has no personality, she's basically featureless, she's perfectly bland and uninspired. And her relationship with Willow - it's almost entirely off-page, we don't see them hang out, we don't see them engage in couple stuff, we don't even see them kiss! And it's especially bizarre and infuriating because Willow does have those cute hurt/comfort-y scenes and even those angst-rich relationship moments, except with f###ing Buffy!

I don't know where but I read once that Tara (and Kennedy and so on) is Willow's girlfriend but Buffy is her wife and at first I wanted to call bullshit on that, argue and whatnot but...it's true, especially in the comics, it's true and it just gets more and more true as the seasons progress.

Stoney
05-01-19, 10:39 PM
Yes, reassessing her life makes sense as she approaches 30, though of course I don't support her reassessing Spike out of the door :D

Well from what is said she thinks that was an error in judgment as to what was wrong and chooses at the end of the season to address what was unsettling her about her future in terms of career and keeping busy. Her happiness is more than just about being in a good relationship, which of course is fine/the truth and once other aspects fall in place there's no reason she can't return to where she had seemed to be when she was happy having been busy/distracted by the latest drama at the end of S11. It's only time before those crazy, insecure kids work it out I tell ya. :p

Priceless
06-01-19, 11:16 PM
The Prom has to be one of the most moving episodes of the whole show. Jonathan's speech is perfect with just the right amount of comedy and pathos, and he delivers it so beautifully.

- - - Updated - - -

The scene in Wild At Heart were Willow tries to break into Oz and Veruca's conversation and gets it totally wrong must be the most 'awkward' and cringey scene in the whole show. That's exactly what it's aiming for and it's so well written and acted. Even Veruca's seeming kindness to Willow is just cringe *shudder

Priceless
08-01-19, 12:09 PM
I have been doing some spring cleaning and putting some stuff I don't need anymore on an internet selling site. One of the items was a Buffy trade paperback. Would you believe, with 4 days of the auction left, it's already at £42! I cannot even fathom the bidding war that's gone on over something that cost me £15 at most. Not that I'm complaining, keep bidding guys :lol:

Stoney
08-01-19, 12:21 PM
Wow, I assume it isn't in print any more?

Priceless
08-01-19, 12:32 PM
Wow, I assume it isn't in print any more?

I'm guessing it can't be. I've put other trade paperbacks up and none of them has gone for anywhere near this price. I'm quite shocked. But then I paid about over £70 for a library edition, so we Buffy fans are a bit daft :lol:

flow
08-01-19, 01:23 PM
Which one is it?

flow

Priceless
08-01-19, 01:35 PM
Which one is it?

flow

Season 10 Volume 6: Own It

Stoney
08-01-19, 02:36 PM
Ooo, I think that might have been the one I took ages to find last year. I eventually tracked down one store that still had one in stock but all the online copies were already £30+ then I think. When does the listing end??

Priceless
08-01-19, 02:51 PM
Ooo, I think that might have been the one I took ages to find last year. I eventually tracked down one store that still had one in stock but all the online copies were already £30+ then I think. When does the listing end??

There's still four days to go :o

Stoney
08-01-19, 02:56 PM
Just imagine all those last minute attempts to snap it up!! Please let us know what it goes for. :D

Priceless
08-01-19, 03:20 PM
Just imagine all those last minute attempts to snap it up!! Please let us know what it goes for. :D

Oh I will :happydance:

flow
08-01-19, 04:10 PM
It’s 89,00 Euro on amazon Germany. That was the reason, I got the Library Editions for season 10 instead of the TPB‘s. Because buying all of them for season 10 was more expensive than the LE‘s.

flow

ETA: It‘s not even a new one on amazon Germany!

Priceless
16-01-19, 09:38 PM
In Witch Joyce says she had Gidget hair and in Life Serial on of the construction crew calls Buffy 'Gidget'. I am pretty sure there is no connection between the two eps, but I still like how it ties in.

TriBel
16-01-19, 10:15 PM
In Witch Joyce says she had Gidget hair and in Life Serial on of the construction crew calls Buffy 'Gidget'. I am pretty sure there is no connection between the two eps, but I still like how it ties in.

Gidget's "The Little Girl with Big Ideas". I can see why it's used by the construction crew. Joyce says: "This is Gidget hair. Don't they teach you anything in history?". I could link them together. In the absence of woman-centered history (see The Guardian - the character not the newspaper), mass culture is free to perpetuate stereotypes that get taken for truths (Xander sacks her). :)

PS. The Guardian newspaper would probably say much the same. :D

Priceless
17-01-19, 03:32 PM
Gidget's "The Little Girl with Big Ideas". I can see why it's used by the construction crew. Joyce says: "This is Gidget hair. Don't they teach you anything in history?". I could link them together. In the absence of woman-centered history (see The Guardian - the character not the newspaper), mass culture is free to perpetuate stereotypes that get taken for truths (Xander sacks her). :)

PS. The Guardian newspaper would probably say much the same. :D

I see what you are saying about the stereotypes, and agree, but not sure that ties in with Xander sacking her. Doesn't he sack her for bringing slayer related issues to his place of business

XANDER: No. No, not here. Not at my job. That's your job.

- - - Updated - - -

In Smashed the camera pulls away from Spike, as he's yelling after Buffy;

It's only a matter of time before you realize I'm the only one here for you, pet. You got no one else!

But what we actually see is Spike, standing alone in an alley. It's him that has no one and is seemingly totally reliant on Buffy for everything. Without her, his life is empty and meaningless.

Stoney
17-01-19, 03:50 PM
Nice observation Pricey. I talked in the Smashed review about how desperate Spike is to try and affirm the connection between them in that scene. He goes for trying to be accepted for helping, through to trying to be seductive then lands on some defensive resentment when he gets nowhere. All of which really does underline how much it means to him to try to get her to respond to him and acknowledge him. That he's the one left alone on screen watching her leave you're right emphasises all of that. :D

Priceless
17-01-19, 04:31 PM
The only person either of them have a real connection with is each other, and that scene sort of encapsulates their relationship. Buffy is walking away and Spike is completely stuck in one place.

The place is quite symbolic too I think; a dark back alley, that Buffy can walk out of, but he can't (he doesn't try to follow her) Which of course is similar to their scene in After Life, where we also see Buffy walking away, while Spike is completely trapped.

TriBel
17-01-19, 04:39 PM
The only person either of them have a real connection with is each other, and that scene sort of encapsulates their relationship. Buffy is walking away and Spike is completely stuck in one place.

The place is quite symbolic too I think; a dark back alley, that Buffy can walk out of, but he can't (he doesn't try to follow her) Which of course is similar to their scene in After Life, where we also see Buffy walking away, while Spike is completely trapped.

Check the back alley in Get it Done (which is the same alley as After Life). IMO, the parallel editing suggests they're connecting (for good or bad) across dimensions.

SpuffyGlitz
08-02-19, 11:08 PM
Random question...I'm writing some flashback chapters in a fic and these are the floor plans of Buffy's house, first and second floor. I think they're correct, just checking.. is there only one bathroom in the Summers' residence?

https://i.imgur.com/ziB2GHU.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/j2wEmsl.jpg

flow
09-02-19, 03:53 PM
Yep, that’s what led to a lot of tension, when the potentials moved in :p

What’s labeled as Buffy‘s room used to be Joyce room and later willow‘s and Tara‘s. Buffy moved into that room in season7.

Fun fact: from the outside there are two rooms with windows facing the street on the second floor but from the inside there is only one.

flow

TriBel
09-02-19, 08:12 PM
"Five by Five" and "William Pratt" both referenced in Agents of Shield 5. :)

TimeTravellingBunny
12-02-19, 12:54 PM
"Five by Five" and "William Pratt" both referenced in Agents of Shield 5. :)

I don't remember the William Pratt reference, can you remind me?

- - - Updated - - -

SpoilerTV has a new user-submitted poll, What is your favorite season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer? It's actually a multiple choice poll where you can vote for up to 5, and all comics seasons are included.
https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/02/usd-poll-what-is-your-favorite-season.html

So far, with 27 votes, the results are:
Season 3 and season 6 tied with 22%/6 votes
Season 5 - 19%/5 votes
Season 2 - 15%/4 votes
Season 7 - 11%/3 votes
Season 1, season 4 and season 8 - 4% or 1 vote

But of course, things may change a lot when more people vote.

It's interesting to see how people outside of this forum feel. There are quite a few Buffy fans on SpoilerTV. Overall, judging by STV and YouTube reaction channels (many of which are now doing Buffy, and those videos are often among the most popular), Buffy is one of the most popular finished shows.

HardlyThere
12-02-19, 01:26 PM
Random question...I'm writing some flashback chapters in a fic and these are the floor plans of Buffy's house, first and second floor. I think they're correct, just checking.. is there only one bathroom in the Summers' residence?

https://i.imgur.com/ziB2GHU.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/j2wEmsl.jpg

Upstairs is out of whack. The stairs should run up from the front of the house, with the master bedroom to the right. The bathroom is the first left after turning into the hall and apparently runs the length. Buffy's old room is at the end to the right and Dawn's the first on the right side going up and shares a wall with the master.

Dimensions of these rooms vary by season, of course. Everything got bigger after they built a set.

ETA: Looking at it again, it's pretty accurate. They just have the stairs in an odd place proportionally, which makes everything look it's turned 90 degrees.

TriBel
12-02-19, 03:23 PM
TTB


I don't remember the William Pratt reference, can you remind me?


I knew somebody would ask me that and I couldn't remember the episode so I googled it. :lol: It mentions it here.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/03/15/shield-season-5-search-gravitonium/

I think it's Ep. 13. This is what is said - and it's interesting the writer doesn't notice the Buffy reference.

"Of the list of names Daisy rattled off, some of them are interesting. Marian Cobretti, the name of Sylvester Stallone‘s character in the 1986 film Cobra. Another name, William Pratt, was an Admiral in the Navy and he served as the president of the Naval War College. He was a veteran of the Spanish-American War and World War I. Gene Klein is Gene Simmons of the band Kiss, though he was born with the Hebrew name Chaim Witz. I’ve got nothing on the other two names.

What I didn't realise was that William Pratt was an actual admiral. I'm mentioning this because Buffy refers to Giles as Admiral in S1 Teacher's Pet:

Buffy: Slice and Dice.

Giles: Well, whatever you do, it had better be certain and swift. This
beast is extremely dangerous.

Buffy: Well, your buddy Carlyle faced it, and he's still around.

Giles: Yes, in a straitjacket, howling his innards out day and night.

Buffy: Okay, Admiral, way to inspire the troops!

The editing in S7 First Date suggests that Spike has replaced Giles. Slice and Dice is also referenced in Chosen:BUFFY "It slices, dices, and makes julienne preacher". :)

TimeTravellingBunny
12-02-19, 03:41 PM
TTB



I knew somebody would ask me that and I couldn't remember the episode so I googled it. :lol: It mentions it here.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/03/15/shield-season-5-search-gravitonium/

I think it's Ep. 13. This is what is said - and it's interesting the writer doesn't notice the Buffy reference.

"Of the list of names Daisy rattled off, some of them are interesting. Marian Cobretti, the name of Sylvester Stallone‘s character in the 1986 film Cobra. Another name, William Pratt, was an Admiral in the Navy and he served as the president of the Naval War College. He was a veteran of the Spanish-American War and World War I. Gene Klein is Gene Simmons of the band Kiss, though he was born with the Hebrew name Chaim Witz. I’ve got nothing on the other two names.

What I didn't realise was that William Pratt was an actual admiral. I'm mentioning this because Buffy refers to Giles as Admiral in S1 Teacher's Pet:

Buffy: Slice and Dice.

Giles: Well, whatever you do, it had better be certain and swift. This
beast is extremely dangerous.

Buffy: Well, your buddy Carlyle faced it, and he's still around.

Giles: Yes, in a straitjacket, howling his innards out day and night.

Buffy: Okay, Admiral, way to inspire the troops!

The editing in S7 First Date suggests that Spike has replaced Giles. Slice and Dice is also referenced in Chosen:BUFFY "It slices, dices, and makes julienne preacher". :)
There are multiple William Pratts, according to Wikipedia, but Spike being named William Pratt had nothing to do with the Admiral. They named him that as an homage to Boris Karloff - William Henry Pratt was his real name.
It's really odd that the author of that article didn't realise either the Buffy connection or the Boris Karloff connection.

TriBel
12-02-19, 03:46 PM
There are multiple William Pratts, according to Wikipedia, but Spike being named William Pratt had nothing to do with the Admiral. They named him that as an homage to Boris Karloff - William Henry Pratt was his real name.
It's really odd that the author of that article didn't realise either the Buffy connection or the Boris Karloff connection.

Yeah...I knew that - I just liked the coincidence. :D

GoSpuffy
12-02-19, 04:40 PM
I don't remember the William Pratt reference, can you remind me?

- - - Updated - - -

SpoilerTV has a new user-submitted poll, What is your favorite season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer? It's actually a multiple choice poll where you can vote for up to 5, and all comics seasons are included.
https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/02/usd-poll-what-is-your-favorite-season.html

So far, with 27 votes, the results are:
Season 3 and season 6 tied with 22%/6 votes
Season 5 - 19%/5 votes
Season 2 - 15%/4 votes
Season 7 - 11%/3 votes
Season 1, season 4 and season 8 - 4% or 1 vote

But of course, things may change a lot when more people vote.

It's interesting to see how people outside of this forum feel. There are quite a few Buffy fans on SpoilerTV. Overall, judging by STV and YouTube reaction channels (many of which are now doing Buffy, and those videos are often among the most popular), Buffy is one of the most popular finished shows.

Thanks for sharing the poll. You can choose 5 seasons which is great. It's so hard to pick just one!

Priceless
12-02-19, 05:50 PM
Yes thank you TTB for printing the vote. Season 3 is leading with 22%, with S2 and S5 just behind. The comics are miles back, which is to be expected. I used all my 5 votes and could have voted for more :D

Stoney
12-02-19, 07:19 PM
Yes S3 was winning when I voted which surprised me to be honest. I would have liked to be able to vote for more, but then as I always say, my hierarchy although it exists is pretty flat.

Agreed it isn't surprising the comics aren't faring well, the audience numbers for them are substantially less.

SpuffyGlitz
12-02-19, 07:42 PM
I'm pleased to see the S5 love! That's my favourite season, tied with S6.

I used all 5 votes too, including for the comics (I voted for seasons 11 & 9 from those.)

- - - Updated - - -

S1 and S4 seem to be at the bottom so far.

a thing of evil
12-02-19, 08:24 PM
Yes S3 was winning when I voted which surprised me to be honest.

How come? It was the show's most popular season.

Stoney
12-02-19, 08:33 PM
How come? It was the show's most popular season.

Apparently that may be so. :) I didn't watch when the show came out and I only go on a couple of forums since I came online to talk about the show. My impression is that S3 is a reasonably popular one but not as commonly picked as favourite above S2 and S5. I'm happy to accept that may be a false impression, that's just how it has seemed to me when talking about it over the years.

vampmogs
12-02-19, 10:08 PM
Forums tend to be pretty isolated and niche. They’re not usually all that reflective of the overall audience and even then, they vary wildly from forum-to-forum. Season 3 was the shows highest rated season and probably the show at its peak in terms of pop culture/zeitgeist/overall popularity. I’d say Season 2 has the most iconic storyline/what the show will always be remembered for (along with the series highest rated episode) but Season 3 piggybacked off Season 2’s commercial and critical success and really found its groove. It was inevitable that it wouldn’t be sustained once Angel splintered off into his own show and the gang left high school, though. High School shows have a notoriously difficult time retaining viewers once they move into the “college years” so Buffy did remarkably well to keep most of the viewers and not sharply drop in the ratings from Season 4 onwards.

That said, we’re talking about 20 years ago. It doesn’t automatically mean what was most popular then is most popular now so it’s not a given Season 3 would automatically win the poll. SpoilerTV would have a more varied and general audience then a specifically Buffy forum would, but it’s not as if most of the audience who watched the show back then are sitting here in 2019 and voting now.

Priceless
15-02-19, 01:36 PM
Eliza Dushku has announced she's expecting her first child. Congratulations! :whoo:

Priceless
16-02-19, 03:19 PM
From Fear Itself

https://i.imgur.com/og2S2aX.png

Priceless
02-03-19, 12:05 AM
https://pitchfork.com/news/buffy-musical-episode-coming-to-vinyl/

Once More With Feeling is coming out in vinyl on 20th March

https://media.pitchfork.com/photos/5c77672d8a62e1373c013ec5/master/pass/1.%20BUFFY_Front%20Cover_Vinyl.jpg

https://media.pitchfork.com/photos/5c7767657741b65a56c6befd/master/pass/2.%20BUFFY_Gatefold_Playbill_Vinyl.jpg

TriBel
02-03-19, 09:34 AM
Priceless:


https://pitchfork.com/news/buffy-mus...ming-to-vinyl/

Once More With Feeling is coming out in vinyl on 20th March

Are you buying it? I've got nothing to play it on (and I probably wouldn't) but I'm inclined to order it just because it's a Mondo cover. My eldest's got the Mondo 5th Element vinyl - it's rather nice. :)

I'm tempted and I feel I should give into temptation - particularly because I resisted two new pairs of DMs yesterday (yay me!) :).

Priceless
02-03-19, 09:52 AM
Oh TriBel you should definitely give into temptation on this one. I think it looks beautiful, but I too have nothing to play it on. I am debating whether to get it or not for that reason :loveeyes::noidea:

TriBel
02-03-19, 10:37 AM
Get it and get an album frame for it, then shove it on the wall. It's what the cool kids are doing.:D Actually, the coolest kids probably have something to play it on but you get my drift. Mondo products are often limited and accrue in value so it might be a wise investment.

Priceless
02-03-19, 10:59 AM
That is a great idea TriBel. It'll look great on my wall.

I've checked the site and it's not up for pre-order yet.

TriBel
02-03-19, 11:43 AM
That is a great idea TriBel. It'll look great on my wall.

I've checked the site and it's not up for pre-order yet.

Yeah - I checked the site - and saw sold-out stuff I'd have bought if I'd checked it earlier! :(

I've got this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Mondo/dp/1785654322/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1551522974&sr=8-1&keywords=mondo+book

As one reviewer says - it's "a feast for the eyes". :hug:I'm tempted to buy another to cut up for prints. Sod it...I will buy another - impulsive self-indulgence is so underrated. :lol:

SpuffyGlitz
09-03-19, 02:05 AM
Some random Buffy-related thoughts:

I'm trying to get facts right: The moment a current Slayer dies, a new one is called, according to verse mythology. Does that mean a new Slayer is *born* right then (and eventually called to her destiny once she reaches the right age), or that immediately, some girl with *potential* or the destiny to be a Slayer, is immediately summoned & told of her destiny/ contacted by a Watcher? Like Kendra. And how does that process work, how does a Watcher *know* who the next Slayer is?

Every generation has *one* Slayer in all the world (before this changed in S7) and traditionally Slayers supposedly died at a young age and then a new one was called.

Giles in S1 said he was 10 years old when he was told of his destiny to be a Watcher, and he came from a long line of Watchers: his father was a Watcher and his grandmother was a Watcher before that.

Buffy was born in 1981. Just four years before she was born, Spike killed Nikki Woods in 1977. Nikki Wood's Watcher was Bernard Crowley. When she died, another Slayer would have been called, but I'm confused as to why the next Slayer's Watcher wasn't Giles' father? Did the next Slayer have a *really* short reign - because that would mean she lasted only four years (between Nikki's death in 1977 and Buffy's birth in 1981)? Or - was the next Slayer born in 1977, then lasted 20 years before she died, when Buffy was told of her destiny at 16 years old? Wait - Buffy was contacted earlier than that -- at her old school at Hemery High by another Watcher. I'm just confused.

Double Dutchess
09-03-19, 02:14 AM
I think it's pretty clear that when a Slayer dies, one of the Potentials is activated to be the next Slayer. How the Watchers know which one, I have no clue. Some fanfic stories have them be notified through mystical means but it could also be that they simply have all the Potentials they know of under observation.

Stoney
09-03-19, 05:21 AM
I got the impression they are able to identify some potentials and so watch/train them, like Kendra, and other times who is chosen is unknown to them but they have some way of being able to identify where they are once they have been. Presumably some spell. I think until they are chosen they are just potentials and the power is unrealised. So it is the point that their power is activated within them that they are 'called' and the Watcher's Council contact them (if they aren't an identified potential who was already being trained of course). By every generation having one slayer I think they are really just referring to one being called at a time. Otherwise when I slayer dies at a traditionally young age there could be years before another is activated and I think it is supposed to be immediate.

Being a watcher doesn't necessarily mean that you will be the one that is training the current slayer. If you think of Checkpoint, a whole team of watchers turned up and the council is current/running throughout the series. We don't really know what they do but presumably they are looking through prophecies and checking for threats etc, training new watchers and potentials. So Giles' relatives might never have been on the frontline with a slayer I suppose.

vampmogs
09-03-19, 05:49 AM
Yep. As others have stated, when a Slayer dies and another is "called" this is referring to another Potential Slayer being activated immediately as the next Chosen One. It's not referring to another Potential Slayer being born. So, when Buffy died temporarily in "Prophecy Girl" Kendra was activated as the new Slayer immediately and then when Kendra died in "Becoming I" Faith was activated immediately.

It's ambiguous as to how old a Potential must be before she is called (or if there's even an age limit at all) but all that Slayers we know of seem to be around 15-18 and in "Showtime" Kennedy states that it's "the younger the better" and is concerned that she's already too old (I'm guessing Kennedy is meant to be at least 19-20 to make her closer to Willow's age then the other girls). And since in "Helpless" it's revealed that the Cruciamentum is a test designed for Slayers "if" they reach their 18th birthday, this would suggest that the vast majority of Slayers are called much earlier than that. Buffy herself was called she was 15. The series has always used demons as a metaphor for the demons of adolescence and there's been a strong coloration between being Chosen and reaching puberty (dating back to the original "Buffy" movie which stated that Slayers actually had menstrual cramps whenever a vampire was near - kind of like a 'Spider Sense' if you will) so being a teenager seems to be the ideal time for a Potential to be activated.

It's never explicitly stated how the Council is able to track down the Potentials but in Season 7 Giles is using the Coven to locate them and Willow also uses a spell in "Potential" to track down Amanda. So I assume that the Council also just used mystical means as a way of locating the girls. Nevertheless, whatever their methods may be, it certainly isn't fool proof as they didn't locate Buffy until she was already called as a Slayer and Potentials like Rona and Amanda also managed to slip under their radar as neither of them had any idea they were Potentials until The Bringers came after them. I've long suspected that Faith wasn't found until after she was called either or, if she was, that it was much later in her life as she seemed to have grown up right throughout childhood with her drunken mother as opposed to her Watcher. On the other hand, I think Kendra had absolutely been found quite early on as she was said to have been given over to her Watcher by her people and given how studied and disciplined she was, my guess is she'd spent years with her Watcher prior to being activated. Potentials like Vi, Kennedy and Annabelle also had Watchers.

I did always love that Buffy wasn't found by the Council until after she was activated. She was always the one nobody ever saw coming. I'm sure there was a bit of panic amongst them when they realised a new Slayer was activated and it wasn't a girl that they had already located or a Potential that they'd already had been grooming.

As for Giles' family, as Stoney says, there are many Watchers who never take charge of the Slayer or a Potential Slayer. There's an entire academy for Watchers and in episodes like "Checkpoint" or "Never Leave Me" we see that many of them just have jobs within the Council itself. In "Helpless" Giles also makes a comment about how "if anyone within the Council still had contact with an actual Slayer" which suggests that the Watcher who actually trains the Slayer actually becomes fairly isolated from the organisation. Giles was excluded from the Watchers retreat as stated in "Faith, Hope & Trick" and was also left in the dark about Gwendolyn Post being banished from the Council for the misuse of dark magics. Wesley's father was also never stated to have had a Slayer under his charge at any point but he was apparently on missions with other Watchers to try and fight vampires (like when they came upon Spike slaughtering an orphanage in Vienna). So there's really no requirement that Giles' father or grandmother had to have had a Slayer of their own in the past.

Stoney
17-03-19, 03:23 AM
I had a conversation with Pricey a good while back about whether the idea of master vampires was canon at all or just something that appeared often in fanfics. I'm not meaning the idea of vamps getting stronger as they age which is definitely referenced, or some vamps having stronger demon essences (the distinction of being Aurelian inferred this and it was detailed as a potential part of the siring process in S10). No, it was the idea of specifically being labelled as a 'master vamp'. I did a bit of searching at that point through transcripts but didn't get too far into BtVS and didn't find anything aside from references to 'The Master', which is obviously separate. But I noticed when watching Disharmony the other day that when Doug is giving his pep talk to the vamps about his pyramid scheme he mentions the idea...

"Everybody, take a seat. (they sit) It's time to actualize your potential. Time to maximize your personal input and get the most out of your afterlife. To those in here for the first time I just want to say - hi. (Some in the crowd answer) Hi. You're special. You each have it in you to be the best vampire. Not just any vampire, but a master! How? I'll show you."

Not sure if there are others I've looked past or not gotten to yet since the question was raised, but there is at least this one canon reference to the idea of the title being earned. Of course it isn't clear what gains you the status, if it is turning numerous people for the scheme or accumulated accolades. It might just be attached to his pyramid scheme. But it is there in some capacity.

vampmogs
17-03-19, 03:47 AM
I believe "Disharmony" is the only other reference to "master" vampires besides The Master himself. I don't read fanfic so I wasn't aware that it was a common usage or idea in them but, yeah, it definitely appears to be fandom thing. It's not a usage coined throughout the show.

There's even a lot of fanon surrounding the Order of Aurelias that isn't - technically - explicitly stated in the show. There's a common fanon that the Order of Aurelias breeds stronger vampires which is why Angel, Darla, Spike and Drusilla are more powerful than your average vamp (and I prescribe to that theory too) but it's never explicitly stated in the series that this is true. The closest we get to confirmation of this is in "Darla" when The Master states that "We are the select - the elite" but how much of that is fact and how much of it is pompous arrogance is up for debate.

There are at least two occasions where Angel is referred to as being a special, if you will, kind of vampire. In "Angel" Giles tells Buffy that Angel "is no ordinary vampire" and in "First Impressions" Wesley tells Angel that he's "never seen [Angel] have so much trouble fighting an ordinary vampire before" when he's exhausted over his dreams, thus implying that Angel is not considered an ordinary vampire. So it is somewhat acknowledged in the text that Angel, at least, is considered a breed apart from your standard vampire and this would naturally apply to Darla, Spike and Drusilla too.

I do really like the idea that the Order of Aurelias is a stronger bloodline because they're direct descendants of The Master himself. It's a fairly simple and straightforward explanation for why not just the Fanged Four but vampires like Luke are stronger than your average vampire. Age is of course a factor and it's textually stated on multiple occasions that a vampire grows more powerful with age, but it'd be unrealistic to imagine that all the vampires Buffy (or The Scoobies and Angel Inc) face on a regular basis just happen to be much younger vampires. There must be hundreds upon hundreds of vampires that have survived at least as long as the Fanged Four have and Angel has come across a lot of them himself (James, Elizabeth, even Rosaria in "Release") so it shouldn't be the only thing setting the Fanged Four apart from other vampires who are more easily staked.

I've always considered The Master to be, like, THE Master - the only one with the title. He's not just referred to as "a" master but "The Master" which doesn't make sense if being a "master" vampire is a title earned by vampires when they reach a certain status. And it seems to be granted to him due to the elitism of the Order of Aurelias but also because he's as old as any vampire on record ("Prophecy Girl"). Giles also refers to him as "the Vampire King" in "Out of Mind, Out of Sight."

I do love the little insights we get into the mythos of the Order of Aurelias. I wish it'd been explored more. As I've said in the past, one of my favourite things about "Darla" is how in just one scene it manages to not only flesh out the history of the Order but also bridge the gap between how inconsistently vampires were depicted in "Buffy" Season 1 in comparison to the remainder of both shows. In Season 1 vampires are said to live always underground (and Darla comments on how Angel is "living above ground like one of them") but in later seasons plenty of vampires live above ground in crypts, mansions, factories etc. The vampires also appear more feral and animalistic - including their long fingernails when they ambush Buffy and Xander in the sewers in "The Harvest." However, in "Darla" it's revealed that The Master demanded vampires live underground to shy away from being like "the human pestilence" and the fact that Angelus and Darla were living above ground angered him greatly. The Master's fixation on the Old Ones and believing that his permanent demonic face meant he'd surpassed "the curse of human features" also lends credence to the theory that The Master wanted his Order to remain as un-human like as possible, which would explain why the vampires mostly stayed in game-face and didn't cut their nails etc to appear more monstrous. Once Buffy killed The Master and the Order disbanded, it makes sense that vampires would start living above ground in Sunnydale as regular vampires moved in.

My personal fanon is also that demon bars like Willies would have existed whilst The Master lived in Sunnydale but that they'd very rarely be frequented by vampires. I get the impression that The Master would not have liked vampires drinking in places like that whilst he reigned.

Double Dutchess
18-03-19, 02:28 AM
I always thought the whole concept of "master vampires" was just fanon. Interesting to know it actually has its roots in the show!

Priceless
18-03-19, 09:05 PM
Mondo are releasing a Slayer jacket with the OMWF vinyl.

TriBel
18-03-19, 09:24 PM
Mondo are releasing a Slayer jacket with the OMWF vinyl.

Are you buying it? The Jacket, I mean.

Priceless
18-03-19, 09:26 PM
Are you buying it? The Jacket, I mean.

It's not really my thing. Have you seen it? What do you think, will you buy it?

Still can't pre-order the record :sadwalk:

TriBel
18-03-19, 10:00 PM
No - not my thing and it's £113 - only £17 less than a new pair of Doc Marten's I've seen! :D

I don't think Mondo do pre-orders. As far as I can tell, it goes on sale on Weds at 5.00 PM GMT.

Stoney
19-03-19, 04:26 PM
I've been wondering about getting this but I was weighing up the shipping costs it might incur and saw on the Mondo site that they don't include import charges/VAT on their shipping prices. I've no idea how you pay the VAT (which I think it would incur) on something that is sent to you and would Royal Mail whack administration costs onto it too? I think a £20 record could end up costing double to get it into the UK. :s

- - - Updated - - -

I've seen a Royal Mail leaflet on Customs Charges and they pay Customs/VAT due then send you a 'fee to pay' card before you get delivery. For items over £15 VAT is due, so the 20% would need to be added. Frustratingly Royal Mail also stick an £8 administration fee for all of this so there would be about an extra £10 for import VAT related charges before you pay for the shipping itself. Not sure I'll bother as my guess it'll cost double to get it sent to the UK seems likely.

Priceless
20-03-19, 07:36 PM
So who got a Blue/Black OMWF vinyl? I didn't, but I did get a red one so I'm still pretty happy.

Stoney
20-03-19, 07:53 PM
I decided against it because the shipping and import VAT doubled the price. :(

Priceless
20-03-19, 08:10 PM
I decided against it because the shipping and import VAT doubled the price. :(

I am considering it an 'investment' :lol:

TriBel
20-03-19, 08:54 PM
I forgot because I was too busy following the complete and utter b*lls-up in Westminster. Couldn't remember my Paypal password; haven't activated my credit card and they don't take debit card so no. Have you paid for it now? By the time they dispatch it, there'll probably be parity between the £ and the $. :lol:

I'm gonna put what I saved towards a new passport!:)

Priceless
21-03-19, 07:09 AM
:lol: TriBel, sorry you missed out, but good luck with the new passport. Are you going for an Irish one?

TriBel
21-03-19, 08:46 AM
:lol: TriBel, sorry you missed out, but good luck with the new passport. Are you going for an Irish one?

Damned great-grandparents had 11 kids. 6 of them were born in Ireland - my Gran was the first to be born in England. :rolling: I have the worst ancestors in the world. No consideration for the next generation. I hate my life. :sadwalk:

Priceless
21-03-19, 04:33 PM
Damned great-grandparents had 11 kids. 6 of them were born in Ireland - my Gran was the first to be born in England. :rolling: I have the worst ancestors in the world. No consideration for the next generation. I hate my life. :sadwalk:

It'll all work out, don't fret . . . rule britannia . . . up yours delours . . . god save the queen . . . :D

TriBel
31-03-19, 06:22 PM
It'll all work out, don't fret . . . rule britannia . . . up yours delours . . . god save the queen . . . :D

LOL! If the apocalypse comes beep me! :rotf:

On a different note, does anyone know whether this (from Older and Far Away)


XANDER: No, it's just, you know, you're upset 'cause we all wanna leave. And now we can't leave. Only thing missing is a cornfield. There ... there isn't a cornfield, is there?

is a reference to It's a Good Life (The Twilight Zone)? My buying the box set hinges on the answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone)

Silver1
31-03-19, 07:18 PM
Yeah, thats a Twilight Zone reference. :)

TriBel
31-03-19, 08:15 PM
Yeah, thats a Twilight Zone reference. :)

Thank you! That's gonna cost me £60/70 for yet another box-set I probably won't watch. I hate being me. :sadwalk:

Silver1
31-03-19, 09:05 PM
Why are you buying it then?

Priceless
06-04-19, 06:29 PM
Watching Touched again and noticed

GILES
(tying up a Bringer) You did well. Your performance as a disgruntled minion was spot on.

KENNEDY
I'm method. (smiles) Let's get this back to the captain.

I don't think I've ever paid any attention to this exchange before, but Kennedy's line 'I'm method' is quite funny and self-disparaging.

But I wonder, is she calling Faith 'the captain', and did Faith call herself that previously and I've just missed it? What is it reference to?

TriBel
06-04-19, 06:58 PM
Watching Touched again and noticed

GILES
(tying up a Bringer) You did well. Your performance as a disgruntled minion was spot on.

KENNEDY
I'm method. (smiles) Let's get this back to the captain.

I don't think I've ever paid any attention to this exchange before, but Kennedy's line 'I'm method' is quite funny and self-disparaging.

But I wonder, is she calling Faith 'the captain', and did Faith call herself that previously and I've just missed it? What is it reference to?

I like the method line - but there again, I like almost every line in S7.:) Not sure about the "captain" reference. However, if you think in militaristic terms, it sits nicely with General Buffy. What I'm fairly sure that in S1, Buffy refers to Giles as Admiral. This would make Faith subservient to Giles but General and Admiral are the equivalent (I think). In the absence of Tennille and "Love will keep us together", that all I've got. :lol:

Method and emotional identification with a part, I'd want to run alongside the whole notion of "performance" (Show Time, Potential etc.)

flow
11-05-19, 07:26 PM
Before Drusilla sired Spike she told him she could see (among other things)
' This and burning baby fish swimming around your head'

Is this just something incoherent and random she said because she is nuts or is there any meaning or explanation to it?

flow

TriBel
11-05-19, 08:28 PM
I'd always thought it meant nothing. However, we know Dru has the sight. This is S5 and Spike has the chip in his head. If we follow a sort of dream logic, the proper term for baby fish is fry. If we go for word association, the word most associated with fish in the UK is chips. It kinda works. I probably wouldn't suggest it if I didn't now he had the chip but I wouldn't dismiss it entirely because the logic's valid in terms of dream analysis - and fish n' chips seems a bit of a coincidence. It'd be different if she'd said "butterflies" or "birds". :lol:

flow
11-05-19, 10:35 PM
I knew I could rely on you to come up with a brilliant explanation! Thank you, TriBel!

flow

a thing of evil
14-05-19, 09:03 PM
That closing scene in Beneath You, the one with Buffy and Spike in church is so cringeworthy and awful. The dialog is terrible (shut up Spike, nobody talks like that!) and the performance is just disappointing. James is completely overacting it and Sarah's merely...OK? Probably one of the worst Buffy/Spike scenes in the entire season.

Priceless
14-05-19, 09:40 PM
That closing scene in Beneath You, the one with Buffy and Spike in church is so cringeworthy and awful. The dialog is terrible (shut up Spike, nobody talks like that!) and the performance is just disappointing. James is completely overacting it and Sarah's merely...OK? Probably one of the worst Buffy/Spike scenes in the entire season.

Apart from the smoke which I do find a bit dodgy, as it seems to rise in 3 exact spots, the scene is fairly well done. I've always thought the dialogue was pretty good at showing someone losing their mind. I think the fact they were trying to show Spike slipping back into madness, which he thought he'd escaped, might make the dialogue sound 'odd', and I agree, no-one does talk like that because it's the speech of a vampire with a soul, only one other person has been through what Spike is going through, so no-one has talked about this experience and there's not 'set' language to discuss it so Spike's trying to describe something that's never been described before, and I think the writers capture that pretty well.

- - - Updated - - -

Danny Strong tweeted re The Prom -

@Dannystrong

Best umbrella I ever gave. @SarahMGellar @BuffyTVS

Marti Noxon replied -

@martinoxon
8m8 minutes ago
More marti "gleeful shit-stirrer" noxon Retweeted Danny Strong

That speech was allll Joss. He had it in his head from the start.

I did, however, cry my eyes out while writing the end of Angel and Buffy. Like a baby. Also I think I was playing The Smiths or something equally heart killing. Just to get in the mood.

Silver1
14-05-19, 10:13 PM
That closing scene in Beneath You, the one with Buffy and Spike in church is so cringeworthy and awful. The dialog is terrible (shut up Spike, nobody talks like that!) and the performance is just disappointing. James is completely overacting it and Sarah's merely...OK? Probably one of the worst Buffy/Spike scenes in the entire season.

I couldn't disagree more. :lol:

a thing of evil
14-05-19, 10:32 PM
I mean, it's certainly not as bad as that one from Dead Things where Buffy and Spike are, like...touching the crypt's door? Spike's wearing this completely ridiculous shirt he stole from a renaissance fair or a theater or something and a silver chain (yikes) and there's this acoustic butt-rock ballad playing in the background. That scene is truly awful but it has this so bad it's good quality to it so it ends up being kinda funny.

Priceless
14-05-19, 10:51 PM
I mean, it's certainly not as bad as that one from Dead Things where Buffy and Spike are, like...touching the crypt's door? Spike's wearing this completely ridiculous shirt he stole from a renaissance fair or a theater or something and a silver chain (yikes) and there's this acoustic butt-rock ballad playing in the background. That scene is truly awful but it has this so bad it's good quality to it so it ends up being kinda funny.

Of course I would disagree :lol: Spike and Buffy touching through the door is showing how close they are, how simpatico. It's also pretty hot . . . as is Spike in what I think is a very nice shirt, and if I remember it's unbuttoned *sigh

Silver1
14-05-19, 11:35 PM
I mean, it's certainly not as bad as that one from Dead Things where Buffy and Spike are, like...touching the crypt's door? Spike's wearing this completely ridiculous shirt he stole from a renaissance fair or a theater or something and a silver chain (yikes) and there's this acoustic butt-rock ballad playing in the background. That scene is truly awful but it has this so bad it's good quality to it so it ends up being kinda funny.

In YOUR opinion it was, but not in mine hon.:lol:

Stoney
14-05-19, 11:58 PM
PuckRobin's review of Dead Things was incredibly good. I got so much more appreciation for that episode and I already loved it. The door scene is a great way of showing the draw and reservation fighting each other for Buffy, desire and resistance. As PuckRobin said, the background music talks of self made barriers as the door remains between them but there are more than just physical barriers in the way. And hands are often used symbolically to show connection and it is a repeated theme between Buffy and Spike. This and other related points (such as the handcuffs as well as the violent beating) are in this ep between them and hands are looked at specifically in relation to the Trio and Katrina too. And I have to say Beneath You is one of my favourite episodes in great part because of the church scene at the end which is an incredible bit of writing to show how torn Spike is inside as the mask falls briefly and the inner turmoil pours out. The struggle to deal with the memories and voices are intense. And so we just continue to prove and represent that there's such a mix of opinions, likes/dislikes across fandom. :biggrin1:

My random thought.... am I remembering right that Jonathan remained a vengeance demon at the end of S10???

a thing of evil
15-05-19, 12:21 AM
Oh for goodness' sake, he wears that ridiculous shirt again in Entropy. It's black and there are those stupid things on it, like, some literal doodles and stuff and it's not even his size. I won't be able to not-notice it ever again. And rings, tacky goth rings on fingers!

SpuffyGlitz
15-05-19, 12:34 AM
TriBel
Method and emotional identification with a part, I'd want to run alongside the whole notion of "performance" (Show Time, Potential etc.)

Completely agree! There's so much on "performance" in BY too - including direct segments like "bring the wife and kiddies, come see the show", but many other moments studded through the episode and S7. I love almost every line in S7 as well :)


I mean, it's certainly not as bad as that one from Dead Things where Buffy and Spike are, like...touching the crypt's door? Spike's wearing this completely ridiculous shirt he stole from a renaissance fair or a theater or something and a silver chain (yikes) and there's this acoustic butt-rock ballad playing in the background. That scene is truly awful but it has this so bad it's good quality to it so it ends up being kinda funny.

Ha - door-touching scenes are fantastically cinematic. They tell you so much about the state of a relationship. Look what Paul Newman does to this bathroom door after his sexual rejection of Liz Taylor in Cat On A Hot Tin Roof (granted, the movie is the Hollywoodized version of Tennessee Williams' play, but still):


https://i.imgur.com/NZQJQDQ.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/xRo9pm3.png
https://i.imgur.com/4pSz08V.png

https://i.imgur.com/yFCz8TL.png

TriBel
15-05-19, 01:09 AM
Ha - door-touching scenes are fantastically cinematic. They tell you so much about the state of a relationship. Look what Paul Newman does to this bathroom door after his sexual rejection of Liz Taylor in Cat On A Hot Tin Roof (granted, the movie is the Hollywoodized version of Tennessee Williams' play, but still):

I think they paid homage to the door scene in Lucifer (they also have a couple of roller skaters called The Slayer and Faith Kill) :D

GoSpuffy
15-05-19, 06:27 AM
Why is YouTube recommending Mandy and Wind Beneath Your Wings? I have way better taste and search history than that. It's got to be all Buffy videos fault.

Silver1
15-05-19, 08:30 AM
Oh for goodness' sake, he wears that ridiculous shirt again in Entropy. It's black and there are those stupid things on it, like, some literal doodles and stuff and it's not even his size. I won't be able to not-notice it ever again. And rings, tacky goth rings on fingers!

From what I can work out It's one of Angels cast off hon. :D

a thing of evil
15-05-19, 11:36 AM
Ha - door-touching scenes are fantastically cinematic. They tell you so much about the state of a relationship.

That doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ungenuine. BtVS is a post-modern show, it's supposed to be subverting and/or laughing at tired, old cliches like that, not embrace them. Like, what are you even doing, caressing a piece of wood?

Priceless
15-05-19, 11:47 AM
James Marsters at Wales Comic Con 7th -8th December. Anyone going?

Stoney
15-05-19, 02:24 PM
I looked into a con in Birmingham once he was going to be at but the cost was so big when there was so little that actually genuinely interested me in the program, it would just boil down to a meet and greet opportunity (although Alexis was going to be there too, it would still just be for a couple of 5 min hellos). I think JM has talked of going to cons himself when younger so perhaps he loves the atmosphere of them, I don't know. But it is still work and there's something I think would be depressing about enduring the tedium of signing photos and being paid to smile for a picture, answering the same questions over and over and over again. I assume he can't hate it because he does it so much, perhaps it is a positive boost to still be loved by so many for a role that finished an age ago. I can see why a lot of the actors do them, but a lot do it far less. Some aspects of it must surely be tedious. I find it hard to believe it isn't just that it earns well and that really he wouldn't rather have more successful roles which meant he didn't need to do so many.

Sorry, all of that was a bit of a tangent. :s

Silver1
15-05-19, 02:34 PM
James Marsters at Wales Comic Con 7th -8th December. Anyone going?

I'd love to as meeting JM at these things is always a delight, but I just don't have the money these days sadly. :(

Priceless
15-05-19, 02:46 PM
Stoney, I quite agree that JM must really wish he had more acting work rather than having to appear at these Cons. But I do admire the way he seems to make the absolute best of them. He's always appears positive and charming whenever I've seen videos of him and he really does seem to enjoy the ego boost of so many fans wanting to talk to him. I'd like to go, to support him, because if the fans decide he's not worth it anymore, that's a big chunk of his income gone.

- - - Updated - - -


I'd love to as meeting JM at these things is always a delight, but I just don't have the money these days sadly. :(

I'm very much in the same boat. Plus I wouldn't want to go by myself and I'm not sure I could persuade any of my friends to go with me

flow
15-05-19, 02:59 PM
Google tells me his estimated net worth is 5 million bucks. I don`t think he has to go to every con he`s at. Of course he is doing this for money, but I don`t think he`d be doing it if he would hate it or find it boring as hell after twenty years.

flow

TriBel
15-05-19, 04:00 PM
That doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ungenuine. BtVS is a post-modern show, it's supposed to be subverting and/or laughing at tired, old cliches like that, not embrace them. Like, what are you even doing, caressing a piece of wood?

Yeah but not all po-mo does that - and I think the playful postmodernism of the early seasons is replaced by a more political, critical postmodernism in the later seasons (which is probably why it's more downbeat). From what I've read Whedon seems fond of the word "baroque", a term used to label the later stages of a genre when a genre "becomes “mannerist” or self-reflexive; established plots and characters are inverted; parodies are popular". It's not a term I'm familiar with but it seems to me to be an adequate description of S6/7 (hence OMWF, Normal Again and Tabula Rasa). By S7, I think BtVS has fully embraced deconstruction, post-structuralist feminism and theories of representation etc (Get it Done seems to take us right back to the Allegory of the Cave). "Play" becomes important - I think "playful" less so.

As for getting rid of cliches, how cliched is "love"? Personally, I think Buffy's moving into more radical territory by embodying Spike ("he's in my heart") but fans still cling to concepts such as "boyfriend" and "in love".

"Caressing a piece of wood" - see, I quite like that. :lol: The wood's dead, the door's an object - "a dead thing". Buffy, caressing a dead thing...

HardlyThere
15-05-19, 06:47 PM
Yeah but not all po-mo does that - and I think the playful postmodernism of the early seasons is replaced by a more political, critical postmodernism in the later seasons (which is probably why it's more downbeat). From what I've read Whedon seems fond of the word "baroque", a term used to label the later stages of a genre when a genre "becomes “mannerist” or self-reflexive; established plots and characters are inverted; parodies are popular". It's not a term I'm familiar with but it seems to me to be an adequate description of S6/7 (hence OMWF, Normal Again and Tabula Rasa). By S7, I think BtVS has fully embraced deconstruction, post-structuralist feminism and theories of representation etc (Get it Done seems to take us right back to the Allegory of the Cave). "Play" becomes important - I think "playful" less so.

As for getting rid of cliches, how cliched is "love"? Personally, I think Buffy's moving into more radical territory by embodying Spike ("he's in my heart") but fans still cling to concepts such as "boyfriend" and "in love".

"Caressing a piece of wood" - see, I quite like that. :lol: The wood's dead, the door's an object - "a dead thing". Buffy, caressing a dead thing...

I think it's more Buffy was post-modern when it wanted to be, ie, when it was making fun of something Joss thought was lame. It embraced the hokey as often as not. Orgasm bite anyone?

SpuffyGlitz
16-05-19, 01:50 AM
a thing of evil
That doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ungenuine. BtVS is a post-modern show, it's supposed to be subverting and/or laughing at tired, old cliches like that, not embrace them. Like, what are you even doing, caressing a piece of wood?

I've actually thought about this before and concluded that Buffy is very self aware. "I wear the cheese. It does not wear me." I think the Cheese Man's statement in Restless was Joss's meta for how tropes explored in the Buffyverse were deliberate and self reflexive. The 'verse wears it, it is not worn by it. :p

Allusions to classical generic conventions or formulas doesn't necessarily undermine BtVS's postmodernism. OMWF is a deliberate homage to generic formulas of the Hollywood romance and to the musical - a conscious nod to West Side Story which Joss loves - but it's mostly friendly. Plus the later seasons are very self reflexive. It's why we got the commedia dell'arte reference by Clem during the family-bickering scenes in Hell's Bells.

Postmodernism can be itinerant and ludic, and the late seasons (6 and 7, possibly 5 and 4 - i'll have think about it more) possibly has features of Propositive Postmodernism (labyrinthic mythologization - arboreal or rhizomatic/ sensuality of the glance/ generic hybridization). I'm undecided about which vein but yes it's interesting to think about!

TriBel
16-05-19, 03:11 AM
SpuffyGlitz


Postmodernism can be itinerant and ludic, and the late seasons (6 and 7, possibly 5 and 4 - i'll have think about it more) possibly has features of Propositive Postmodernism (labyrinthic mythologization - arborean or rhizomatic/ sensuality of the glance/ generic hybridization). I'm undecided about which vein but yes it's interesting to think about!


I hate postmodernism - bane of my life! :lol: Ihab Hassan: ‘I have not defined Modernism; I can define Postmodernism less. No doubt the more we ponder, the more we will need to qualify all we say.’ (My records say 1996 but I suspect it was earlier.) Jameson in 1982: ‘[t]he concept of postmodernism is not widely accepted or even understood today’. The damned press reckoned it had run its course by 1975 and that "post-post modernism was the thing".

I've just gone through my own notes and this works for me. It's from Lyotard (might as well start at the top!).
For Lyotard postmodern works are not "in principle governed by preestablished rules, and they cannot be judged according to a determining judgement, by applying familiar categories to the text or to the work. Those rules and categories are what the work of art itself is looking for. The artist and the writer, then, are working without rules in order to formulate the rules of what will have been done...Post modern would have to be understood according to the paradox of the future(post)anterior(modo)". Future-anterior's the logic of S7 - it goes back to the beginning.

For S7 - definitely rhizomes not trees! Lessons - Willow is sitting under a tree but brings a flower through the earth "It's all connected. The root systems, the molecules...the energy. Everything's connected". Eat your heart out Deleuze :lol:

The sensuality of the gaze: there's an article somewhere about/by Noxon where Noxon discusses a female gaze. It might be this one: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/screenwriters-chart-a-new-course-for-tvs-female-gaze/article34832480/

flow
17-05-19, 02:47 PM
Priceless
James Marsters at Wales Comic Con 7th -8th December. Anyone going?

I can`t find anything about Prices. Pricey, do you know how much the tickets are and how much a Q&A session with JM would be? Or a photo shoot? Or both?

flow

TriBel
17-05-19, 02:54 PM
Priceless

I can`t find anything about Prices. Pricey, do you know how much the tickets are and how much a Q&A session with JM would be? Or a photo shoot? Or both?

flow

https://www.walescomiccon.com/buy-tickets

They haven't announced prices yet so I'd check what other CC's charge. WARNING - he was announced as a guest last year and I think he cancelled (could be wrong). That aside, we might have closed the doors to members of the EU by then. :p

BH! As far as I can tell, it isn't even in Wales - it's in Telford, which is in Shropshire.

flow
17-05-19, 03:24 PM
Oh shit, I am going to need a visa???
flow

TriBel
17-05-19, 03:29 PM
Oh shit, I am going to need a visa???
flow

Huh...don't ask me. :blink: If the people who're paid to know these things don't know why should I? I've got my eyes closed and my fingers in my ears in relation to anything to do with Brexit. If I ignore it, it'll (possibly) go away. It's a strategy that worked with the kids....:)

Priceless
09-06-19, 09:32 AM
Anthony Stewart Head just tweeted this . . .

@AnthonySHead

So I watched #TheBody again yesterday and I cried...several times. Quite the most beautiful and extraordinary piece of television. Written and directed by @joss it should have so many awards hanging around its neck - it was and still is groundbreaking x


I quite agree with him

flow
09-06-19, 10:10 AM
I love it that he is re-watching.

flow

TriBel
12-06-19, 12:08 PM
Elsewhere, it's been suggested 'Older and Far Away' is based on The Exterminating Angel (El Angel Exterminador, 1962) by Luis Buñuel. Wiki confirms it:
The Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, "Older and Far Away" (2002), references the movie when a set of characters is unable to leave a house after a party. Initially, the characters seems to be psychologically unable to leave, but later the characters desire to leave but physically cannot, due to a spell.

Interesting because I think S7s First Date refers us back to Older and Far Away (in the choice that Buffy makes to go to Spike before Xander). In Exterminating Angel, they break down a wall to access a water pipe. In FD, the pipework's on the surface. In O&FA, the demon is in the wall. In Restless, Joyce is in the wall. In Lessons we get this:
SPIKE: This is my home. I belong here. Always been here. Cheers for stopping by.
Spike walks away from Buffy. He faces the wall and puts his hands on it.
SPIKE (To himself) It's in the wall.
In the Lessons prologue, the potential attempts to escape the Bringers by climbing a pipe. Later in the episode, Buffy defends herself againt the manifest spirits with a pipe.

As Willow says in Lessons, "Everything's connected". :)

I'm just gonna think about Flooded.

HardlyThere
12-06-19, 12:50 PM
I wouldn't say wiki confirms it. I don't believe it's ever been mentioned from the writers. A group of people stuck in an enclosed space by a spell or other means is pretty standard fare for genre shows and the norm for bottle episodes. Fear Itself also has similar notes.

Priceless
20-06-19, 11:03 PM
I am sure you all know this already, but it's the first time I've really thought about it this way before (thanks to Buffy Boys podcast) Angel was cursed by a man, that the curse is patriarchal in nature because he was the head of his group and though it was Angel who was cursed, it's in fact Buffy who truly suffers from it. They suggest that the curse was deliberately made the way it was so that Buffy was punished once again, but on a different level, by the patriarchy. So when people say it's a stupid curse, and a major flaw in logic, it really is, but it's designed to be exactly what it was.

a thing of evil
20-06-19, 11:18 PM
B-but...Angel was cursed by a woman? The lovely elder lady, in her mystical tent?

Double Dutchess
20-06-19, 11:19 PM
I haven't listened to that podcast, but to me this sounds like a farfetched patriarchy conspiracy theory. Not everything is about that.

Priceless
20-06-19, 11:34 PM
B-but...Angel was cursed by a woman? The lovely elder lady, in her mystical tent?

Was it? I have a memory of a man standing and pointing at Angel as he cowers by a fire?? I have the memory of a goldfish so I could be imagining it.

- - - Updated - - -


I haven't listened to that podcast, but to me this sounds like a farfetched patriarchy conspiracy theory. Not everything is about that.

I would highly recommend it. They're are very intellectual about it, but I like that to be honest. They refer a lot to Rhonda Wilcox. I don't agree with everything, of course, but i like their delivery and I feel like I'm learning stuff :D

a thing of evil
20-06-19, 11:54 PM
Was it? I have a memory of a man standing and pointing at Angel as he cowers by a fire?? I have the memory of a goldfish so I could be imagining it.

There is a scene like that but it takes place after Angel is cursed. The actual cursing is done by the Kalderash crone lady.

Priceless
21-06-19, 12:03 AM
There is a scene like that but it takes place after Angel is cursed. The actual cursing is done by the Kalderash crone lady.

I shall be writing a strongly worded email :lol:

TriBel
21-06-19, 02:04 AM
I am sure you all know this already, but it's the first time I've really thought about it this way before (thanks to Buffy Boys podcast) Angel was cursed by a man, that the curse is patriarchal in nature because he was the head of his group and though it was Angel who was cursed, it's in fact Buffy who truly suffers from it. They suggest that the curse was deliberately made the way it was so that Buffy was punished once again, but on a different level, by the patriarchy. So when people say it's a stupid curse, and a major flaw in logic, it really is, but it's designed to be exactly what it was.

I've never really bothered to think about the actual curse because I tend to see the result as a manifestation of Liam's repressed fears and desires (and this is borne out in A11). However, that does connect the two. Liam's dad "curses" Liam and warns him to stay away from Kathy (he fears Liam will "corrupt her"). I think this is the day Liam's turned. It doesn't take much to draw a line between the leader of the gypsy tribe and Liam's dad as the leader of his "tribe". From that perspective, it's just a twist on the standard Oedipus. The result of the second curse is Angelus is "turned" into Angel (and a young girl is "corrupted"). There's repetition. The old lady is interesting - it's easy enough to see her as the archaic mother and I've just remembered this (it's something I wrote on another occasion):

"As befits a ‘witch’ Bella stages the revenge of the mother, sister, daughter by deploying the ‘magic word’ and “cursing” the father. Traditionally ‘the curse of a woman...was considered far more potent than a man’s curse. A ‘mother’s curse’ as it was known meant certain death.’ I think the reference I have for it is Creed's The Monstrous Feminine (I'll look it up when my brain's working). Death can mean actual or symbolic death and, in a sense, Angelus "dies" as a result of the curse. The other interesting thing is Buffy. In the involuntary memory at the beginning of The Body, Joyce jokingly refers to Buffy as "a demon child". I think this scene is a manifestation of Buffy's unconscious - and I think the joke is lodged in her unconscious as a "curse". I need to think it through properly but - as it stands - I'm happy to go along with the idea it's rooted in patriarchal psycho-social structures.

Priceless
21-06-19, 07:37 AM
They did make reference to Oedipus on the podcast. They really are very interesting to listen to and they do try and wring out every bit of meaning from each episode, which I love. They do miss some things, such as Angel criticising women of his era in Halloween, they didn't see that as patriarchal or give it any sort of feminist reading, or perhaps do, but failed to mention it. (They tend to be more QT than Feminist, but that's just today's fashion I think)

flow
14-07-19, 12:05 PM
I didn't really know where else to put this:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-20-years-later-alyson-hannigan-seth-green-controversial-graduation-episode-columbine-170000690.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9sLmZhY2Vib29rLmNvbS9sLnBo cD91PWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LnlhaG9vLmNvbSUyRmVudG VydGFpbm1lbnQlMkZidWZmeS10aGUtdmFtcGlyZS1zbGF5ZXIt MjAteWVhcnMtbGF0ZXItYWx5c29uLWhhbm5pZ2FuLXNldGgtZ3 JlZW4tY29udHJvdmVyc2lhbC1ncmFkdWF0aW9uLWVwaXNvZGUt Y29sdW1iaW5lLTE3MDAwMDY5MC5odG1sJmg9QVQwaENGelJWRn ZnVWNtVUxmZ082WGJoWlV1NmxudkZJQ3F2RXFUUW96bHhjRkpW N0toNE5ZSWFWOHpUdmxZV3RQRzhUSndyeWRrUXlpRUFjVm1vQW hab0FmaUJZc2k3bnBhV2VUTmdYX21sa19FaFRzM3o0b21HcWdw VlotU0Vlc0RoTUNlYkJhR1RzNTNtVzh5S1NSVkUyVml3aFRpNG NIcTNOams&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAETy_Z4tZrQ7_vsTGtvfWCMk-rTAiH_TV4ayKPZ8OsItxjbPriQjARHqpsETUtKGsd5ifArXMr1 idmDcA6PrgcR4mhiksnaR0-aL8PpDlpYM6mE1s7h1OtTbYCRFQIFNbv68ypXqxdjWJYFI3Zjs miM9FqZ4VzzQ63IBvVdFepk0

It's a yahoo interview with AH and SG about Graduation Day.

flow

Priceless
15-07-19, 10:24 AM
I like the idea of Joss asking Denisof if he wanted to be heroic, or if he wanted to be knocked out and Denisof went for the knocking out because it was funnier. I wonder if Joss often asked the actors how they wanted their character to be portrayed?

- - - Updated - - -

Just read this on tumblr and thought it was quiet sweet and shows a closeness between the two that I didn't expect.

“Alyson came in and I remember thinking ‘Aah! Girlfriend! Finally!’ Her favourite story that she tells about how busy and crazy I was, is when she got her tonsils out and I picked her up at the hospital and brought her home and she was supposed to only have yogurt but I didn’t have time to buy any because I was so busy, so I took all the yogurt from my refrigerator - ‘cause I eat yogurt - to her house and she called me the next day and I guess all the yogurt had like, super expired. And Alyson said ‘Are you trying to kill me?’”
- Sarah Michelle Gellar [2003]

flow
03-08-19, 05:27 PM
I am not familiar with AtS but I was wondering if Cordy, Wes an Gunn knew about Angel’s part in what happened to the W&H lawyers and about Angel and Darla‘s one night stand (before Darla came back pregnant ).

Does anyone know?

flow

BtVS fan
03-08-19, 05:48 PM
I am not familiar with AtS but I was wondering if Cordy, Wes an Gunn knew about Angel’s part in what happened to the W&H lawyers and about Angel and Darla‘s one night stand (before Darla came back pregnant ).

Does anyone know?

flow

If you'd had seen Reunion you wouldn't ask this about the Laywers. The answer is Yes because he tells them and then fires them.
Until Darla comes back and reveals her pregnancy it's a no

flow
03-08-19, 09:12 PM
That’s great to know, thank you. I haven’t watched AtS except for season five and about five episodes or so for season 1. But I will watch Reunion now.

flow

Stoney
04-08-19, 05:06 AM
I'm a great fan of watching the episodes chronologically. I don't think you can 'get' what is happening for the characters at a given point as well without seeing all that came before so I'd encourage you to try to get to it in order. :D

Priceless
10-09-19, 09:59 AM
Anyone in the UK seen the new Barnardo's advert on bullying? They use hyena's as the bullies. Every time I see it I think of The Pack.

a thing of evil
17-09-19, 06:46 PM
I've noticed something mildly interesting. In "Nightmares" Willow mentions that she plays the piano but we never get to see her play and there seems to be no instrument in her room. So I'm watching "I Robot, You Jane" and boom, there is a honking keyboard lying on her bed. And I'm, like, wait a second, how have I not noticed it before, I've seen this episode too many times to count! Impossible! Turns out, the keyboard is not visible in the SD version but the HD/widescreen version revealed it. Pretty neat.

Willow from Buffy
21-09-19, 02:00 AM
The girl who catches fire in "The Witch" is called Amber and is being trained by a coach named Benson.

Priceless
23-09-19, 01:49 PM
There used to be a fanart thread but I can't find it (it really is difficult to find threads on this forum - don't care how many lessons I get from Stoney :lol:)

Anyway, Mona has done another wonderful William pic and I wanted you all to see it . . .

https://www.instagram.com/sanshodelaine/?hl=en

Anyone who knows where the right thread is and has the ability, please move my post :D

GoSpuffy
23-09-19, 03:42 PM
There used to be a fanart thread but I can't find it (it really is difficult to find threads on this forum - don't care how many lessons I get from Stoney :lol:)

Anyway, Mona has done another wonderful William pic and I wanted you all to see it . . .

https://www.instagram.com/sanshodelaine/?hl=en

Anyone who knows where the right thread is and has the ability, please move my post :D

Pricey in the top bar on the left hand side do you see a tab called "forum"? It should be right above "new posts".

If you open the forum tab you see all the different sections Including "fanart". Once you're in it can be trying to find a thread because some are in sub forums and some are called normal threads but you should be able to find what you're looking for. If you remember the name of the thread you can find it through the search tool quite easily.

Stoney
23-09-19, 03:46 PM
Going through the headings from the 'Forum' main page was what I was going to suggest too. :D

I think you might have been thinking of the thread (Fanart By Others) (http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?21754-Fanart-By-Others) that Nina created, which is found in Forum - Fanart - Fanart Discussions??

Priceless
23-09-19, 05:19 PM
Pricey in the top bar on the left hand side do you see a tab called "forum"? It should be right above "new posts".

If you open the forum tab you see all the different sections Including "fanart". Once you're in it can be trying to find a thread because some are in sub forums and some are called normal threads but you should be able to find what you're looking for. If you remember the name of the thread you can find it through the search tool quite easily.

Thanks GoSpuffy but who's got the time :lol: Seriously, I think I've proven many times over that I'm just a bit thick :p

- - - Updated - - -


Going through the headings from the 'Forum' main page was what I was going to suggest too. :D

I think you might have been thinking of the thread (Fanart By Others) (http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?21754-Fanart-By-Others) that Nina created, which is found in Forum - Fanart - Fanart Discussions??

Thanks Stoney, that's exactly what I was looking for :D

Priceless
03-10-19, 06:45 PM
Just read an article by a writer who said that Buffy was the show that shaped her as a writer and a person. At the end she admits

I must end with a confession: I love the show so much that I have never watched the final episode. I couldn’t bear to then, I can’t bear to now.

Although I understand the sentiment, I can't imagine not watching the last episode of a show I loved.

BtVS fan
03-10-19, 07:10 PM
Just read an article by a writer who said that Buffy was the show that shaped her as a writer and a person. At the end she admits

I must end with a confession: I love the show so much that I have never watched the final episode. I couldn’t bear to then, I can’t bear to now.

Although I understand the sentiment, I can't imagine not watching the last episode of a show I loved.


Yeah that's really dumb and if she still watched Angel then Spike on S5 must've confused the shit out of her :lol:

Priceless
06-10-19, 06:34 AM
Has anyone read the Buffy Goes Dark book? It's a collection of essays on the two final seasons. It's expensive so I'm debating whether to get it or not, any reviews would be useful.

redtent
07-10-19, 08:55 AM
Has anyone read the Buffy Goes Dark book? It's a collection of essays on the two final seasons. It's expensive so I'm debating whether to get it or not, any reviews would be useful.

I just bought it a week ago, but didn't read it yet. Now I'am reading Why Buffy Matters and when I finish I'll be reading this next.

Priceless
07-10-19, 11:32 AM
I just bought it a week ago, but didn't read it yet. Now I'am reading Why Buffy Matters and when I finish I'll be reading this next.

Please let me know what you think when you've read it :D

- - - Updated - - -

Just saw this quote from Nick Brendon and thought it was really sweet.

I think season one [favorite season] because it was so magical. Not for the content, but just for what Sarah, Alyson and myself were going through. It was a magical time in my life that I'll never forget until God takes me from this green earth ~ Nicholas Brendon

Willow from Buffy
28-10-19, 08:53 AM
If Glory had succeeded in collapsing the multiverse, we could have had this weird battle with Angel, Groo and the army of Pylea storming in to aid the Scoobies against the demons of the universe... sorta like Gandalf and the Rohirim at the end of Two Towers.

Stoney
28-10-19, 10:23 AM
I'd rather have seen the Scooby gang as a heroic cavalry digging Angel out of the mess he'd made through his poor decisions in AtS 5, but that's the basis of many fanfics and I like the originality of your idea.

Willow from Buffy
28-10-19, 10:32 AM
I'd rather have seen the Scooby gang as a heroic cavalry digging Angel out of the mess he'd made through his poor decisions in AtS 5, but that's the basis of many fanfics and I like the originality of your idea.

I get that. I just like the conscience of the Scoobies watching the multiverse start to break down at a moment where Angel and his team have made themselves rulers of a kingdom of warrior demons. Even if the world was ending, they could have put up a pretty good fight. I mean, if Buffy hadn't jumped, Pylea would have crashed into Earth at some point.

Priceless
18-11-19, 08:49 AM
The forum got an RSS feed! This is great :happydance: