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Priceless
23-12-17, 08:07 AM
I'm an avid podcast listener. I mainly listen to Buffy-centric podcasts, but not exclusively. I wondered if anyone else listens to any podcasts that they'd like to recommend?

One of my favourites is Lani Diane Rich's Still Pretty. She used to do the Dusted with her husband *ahem ex-husband, but continued on her own, and is much improved for it imo :lol:

Do you have any recommendations?

flow
28-12-17, 11:02 PM
I am listening to the Sunnydale Fanfic Club Podcast. They discuss a fanfic every week together with the author. It is quite new, they have been on air for only three weeks. Their first fic was a Jenny/Giles Story in an alternate universe. The second was a one-shot, that was Willow-centric and the third one was a Spuffy fanfic. The next one is going to be a Bangel fanfic. ī

You can find them on tumblr, twitter and Facebook. I would post a link here, but i am not really sure, if it would be against the board rules. Maybe someone can give me a hint.

flow

flow

TimeTravellingBunny
28-12-17, 11:06 PM
I listen to a lot of podcasts (while I'm walking my dogs), but unfortunately I don't know many Buffy podcasts that are still running. The only one I listen to is Babes Watch Buffy on Soundcloud - two hosts are rewatching Buffy (and sometimes they have special episodes on other stuff), and they usually have a guest or two. They've just finished season 3, but I'm behind (still listening to season 2 podcasts).

Priceless
29-12-17, 05:15 PM
I listen to a lot of podcasts (while I'm walking my dogs), but unfortunately I don't know many Buffy podcasts that are still running. The only one I listen to is Babes Watch Buffy on Soundcloud - two hosts are rewatching Buffy (and sometimes they have special episodes on other stuff), and they usually have a guest or two. They've just finished season 3, but I'm behind (still listening to season 2 podcasts).

i love Babes Watch Buffy, it's one of my favourite Buffy podcasts. They've tweeted recently that they'll soon be starting on Season 4 and I'm really looking forward to hearing their thoughts

Priceless
05-01-18, 12:42 PM
I'd like to recommend Buffering the Vampire Slayer podcast, it's fun but also has a serious take on the sexism and patriarchy within BtVS which I enjoy. One of the podcasters is a singer/songwriter and she writes a song for every episode and they are great.

Stoney
05-01-18, 09:01 PM
I'd like to recommend Buffering the Vampire Slayer podcast, it's fun but also has a serious take on the sexism and patriarchy within BtVS which I enjoy. One of the podcasters is a singer/songwriter and she writes a song for every episode and they are great.

The song writing sounds like a cute idea, is there anywhere that the lyrics are posted?

I've never listened to a podcast and don't read episode reviews/critiques for the show generally (apart from the rewatch here of course). I'm too opinionated to actively look to read or listen to something if I can't respond and discuss it with the writer. I often get muddled in what the point was the person was going for and need to quiz and sort out my understanding with them too, duh. :confused3: How often do you listen to these or read general reviews? Do you try and stick to an episode and look up several for it or do you just follow several people even if they are at different places in their watches?

Priceless
05-01-18, 11:28 PM
The song writing sounds like a cute idea, is there anywhere that the lyrics are posted?

I've never listened to a podcast and don't read episode reviews/critiques for the show generally (apart from the rewatch here of course). I'm too opinionated to actively look to read or listen to something if I can't respond and discuss it with the writer. I often get muddled in what the point was the person was going for and need to quiz and sort out my understanding with them too, duh. :confused3: How often do you listen to these or read general reviews? Do you try and stick to an episode and look up several for it or do you just follow several people even if they are at different places in their watches?

I am listening to about 10 Buffy podcasts currently! They range from S1 to S7, some I've listened to from the start and some I've just jumped into. I have listened to a lot more, but once they say they don't like Spike/Spuffy, I turn off :roll:
You do hear a lot of the same opinions, but Buffering is different because it's done by two gay women, they have a very feminist slant which I enjoy, but they are also fun - though not if you are a fan of Xander or Angel. They hate Xander and just laugh at Angel and his melodrama. I am worried that when they get to S5, 6, 7 I won't be able to listen because they will hate Spike :(

I don't read episode reviews, except the ones on this site. I do read series reviews, but I prefer to read more in-depth analysis and opinions. I like Slayage and have read a lot of their articles, but to be honest I get most of my enjoyment just discussing the show with fans on the forums :D

flow
06-01-18, 02:33 PM
@ priceless, are you following Passion of the Nerd`s reviews on YouTube ? I have only watched
Spike-episodes so far, because I simply don`t have the time, to watch every review, but I love them.

There used to be a written review for every epiosde with a season overall review on a website called Critically Touched. I managed to read all of the season 6 and season 7 reviews during my last summer holiday and when I wanted to go back to them a couple of weeks later, they were gone ! The author had taken them off the internet after they had been there for twenty years and less than twenty weeks, after I had dicovered them !

Mark Field`s book Myth, Metaphor and Morality is basically a review for every episode as well. I like reading it, but got stuck somewhere in season 3. As I said ....too much to read, too little time.....sigh.

@priceless, I remember, that you (at least I think, it was you) once recommended a Video Review. I don`t remember the name of the vlogger and I don`t even remember, if it was on YouTube. The only thing I remember, is, that it was by a woman with dark schoulder length hair. Do you know, where I could find her review ?

flow

Priceless
06-01-18, 03:01 PM
@ priceless, are you following Passion of the Nerd`s reviews on YouTube ? I have only watched
Spike-episodes so far, because I simply don`t have the time, to watch every review, but I love them.

There used to be a written review for every epiosde with a season overall review on a website called Critically Touched. I managed to read all of the season 6 and season 7 reviews during my last summer holiday and when I wanted to go back to them a couple of weeks later, they were gone ! The author had taken them off the internet after they had been there for twenty years and less than twenty weeks, after I had dicovered them !

Mark Field`s book Myth, Metaphor and Morality is basically a review for every episode as well. I like reading it, but got stuck somewhere in season 3. As I said ....too much to read, too little time.....sigh.

@priceless, I remember, that you (at least I think, it was you) once recommended a Video Review. I don`t remember the name of the vlogger and I don`t even remember, if it was on YouTube. The only thing I remember, is, that it was by a woman with dark schoulder length hair. Do you know, where I could find her review ?

flow

I do watch Passion of the Nerd's reviews, he's really interesting but the reviews aren't long enough :) Doesn't POTN use
Mark Field`s book Myth, Metaphor and Morality as a basis for his reviews? I've never read it, which I probably should if I call myself a proper Buffy fan :)

I hadn't heard of Critically Touched, and it's a shame they've removed their reviews. Do you know why they did that? I wonder if they were 20 years old, if the thinking behind them was outdated.

My favourite video review (it's also a podcast) is on YouTube and it's by Lani Diane Rich who was once half of Dusted before her divorce. The reviews are called Still Pretty and they start in S6 which is where Dusted left off, although I think Alistair carried on with another woman (in all senses I believe :() I like Lani and she's pretty pro-Spike which I like

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The song writing sounds like a cute idea, is there anywhere that the lyrics are posted?



You can hear the songs free on Spotify, or at least the first two seasons. You can also listen on the BufferingtheVampireSlayer website. The lyrics for the songs are on the website too. I would recommend them, she's a terrific songwriter and the songs are in all different style. I wish i could link it all, but I don't know how!

Priceless
23-01-18, 09:43 AM
Just listening to Buffering the Podcast review of Consequences and they are so funny talking about 'detective Angel', is anyone else listening? They gave their sexual tension award to Angel and his leather bound notebook :roll:

Priceless
29-01-18, 03:37 PM
Listened to three episodes of If the Apocalypse Comes, Beep Me and really enjoyed them. They are currently reviewing season two and have some interesting perspectives

flow
30-01-18, 02:22 PM
The Sunnydale Fanfic Club has aired the episode for "Pet" by Sigyn:

http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6202633/tdest_id/612464

flow

Silver1
30-01-18, 02:40 PM
Two things I've been listening to/watching is Slayerfest98 which is a podcast where some gay men (their description not my assumption) chat about the episode they've watched. I usually end up skipping through some of it when they start to ramble about other things or get hooked on minor points which has very little to do with the story. :) Their latest is season 4's the Initiative.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-45-men-dot-coms-the-initiative

Then there's another load of your average nerdy blokes discussing the episodes. The majority of the reviews are apparently podcasts (on I think iTunes), but I only watch the few they uploaded as videos on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCazpaZrLyi0UoIyjgQgbq6Q/videos?disable_polymer=1

I often find their take on the episodes odd verging on surreal sometimes and they also get hooked on the weirdest of details. :lol:

Priceless
31-01-18, 11:45 PM
The Sunnydale Fanfic Club has aired the episode for "Pet" by Sigyn:

http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6202633/tdest_id/612464

flow

Excellent. Have you listened flow? I shall listen tomorrow. I've been looking forward to this one for ages

Silver1 Thanks for the podcast recs. I'm always on the lookout for new podcasts so I'll listen to them both

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The Sunnydale Fanfic Club has aired the episode for "Pet" by Sigyn:

http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6202633/tdest_id/612464

flow

Have you listened to it yet? What do you think? Sigyn is not at all what I expected! It was really interesting to hear her talk about her work

flow
01-02-18, 06:45 PM
Yes, I have listened to the podcast. I thouht, sigyn was very focused, she got straight to the heart of things. She voiced her opinion very clearly and came across as an intelligent person. I think, that the hosts were a bit overwhelmed with talking with her and about Pet and I am not sure, if this fic was the right one for them. Theyy seemed to be a bit perplex or flabbergasted.

I was very grateful for sigyn talking about evil Spikes development and how he closed himself off of the evil he was doing. She was referring to a line in Destiny, where he says, he never looked back at the victims. That really helped me to understand her evil Spike so much better.

I wish, she could have talked a bit about other stories as well, but there was obviously not enough time. I also was surprised, that she has published original novels and I wish, she would have mentioned the titles or her author name. But I guess, she wanted to protect her anonymity ? Oh, and I was impressed, how bravely and openly she talked about her depression.

Yes, I was really impressed. Kudos to sigyn :)

flow

Silver1
01-02-18, 09:10 PM
Just aheads up, the Slayerfest podcast people's latest review is 'Pangs' and has writer Jane Espenson as a guest to talk about it.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-46-a-very-espenson-thanksgiving

Priceless
01-02-18, 11:44 PM
Just aheads up, the Slayerfest podcast people's latest review is 'Pangs' and has writer Jane Espenson as a guest to talk about it.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-46-a-very-espenson-thanksgiving

I've just listened to it. Jane Espenson is such a good communicator. She pulled up her original script and they talked about the changes that were made by the time they shot the episode. It was really interesting. I'd never heard her talk before and I wonder why she did this podcast and not any of the thousand that are out there. Very enjoyable, thanks for the recommendation Silver1

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Yes, I have listened to the podcast. I thouht, sigyn was very focused, she got straight to the heart of things. She voiced her opinion very clearly and came across as an intelligent person. I think, that the hosts were a bit overwhelmed with talking with her and about Pet and I am not sure, if this fic was the right one for them. Theyy seemed to be a bit perplex or flabbergasted.

I was very grateful for sigyn talking about evil Spikes development and how he closed himself off of the evil he was doing. She was referring to a line in Destiny, where he says, he never looked back at the victims. That really helped me to understand her evil Spike so much better.

I wish, she could have talked a bit about other stories as well, but there was obviously not enough time. I also was surprised, that she has published original novels and I wish, she would have mentioned the titles or her author name. But I guess, she wanted to protect her anonymity ? Oh, and I was impressed, how bravely and openly she talked about her depression.

Yes, I was really impressed. Kudos to sigyn :)

flow

She did say she was on EF and people could contact her there, so I am sure she'd talk about her original work if asked. I'm just really happy she didn't leave the fandom as she thought she would. I thought she was really interesting, and forthright.

I'd agree the reviewers seemed out of their depth, but they are very young I think (thought one of them is soon to be married, I feel like saying wait another 10 years!) I think they prefer 'romantic' or 'adventure' fics, rather than those that are trying to address issues or character psychology.

Silver1
02-02-18, 02:33 PM
ve just listened to it. Jane Espenson is such a good communicator. She pulled up her original script and they talked about the changes that were made by the time they shot the episode. It was really interesting.

It was good wasn't it. And I even learnt a few more things about the series I didn't know before. :D

I met Jane at a Buffy convention years back and she was so, so nice. She did a live commentary on Pangs which was wonderful. I ended up not only being a
fan of her writing but her as a person.

Priceless
02-02-18, 03:03 PM
It was good wasn't it. And I even learnt a few more things about the series I didn't know before. :D

I met Jane at a Buffy convention years back and she was so, so nice. She did a live commentary on Pangs which was wonderful. I ended up not only being a
fan of her writing but her as a person.

I am jealous that you have met her, I am in awe of her talent. I do follow her on twitter (not quite the same lol) and she seems such a lovely person

Sosa lola
02-02-18, 08:15 PM
Buffy podcast Pop Culture Role Call (http://popculturerolecall.libsyn.com/) is a very interesting approach to watching/rewatching the series. You got four commenters, each one is watching from a character’s POV. The Buffy POV and Willow POV are newbies.

I love the Xander POV guy (Yeah, yeah, big surprise!) poor thing is trying so hard to defend Xander while the two newbies really, really, really dislike him.

Anyway, I was listening to their Prophecy Girl podcast, and they were discussing when Xander went to Angel’s apartment so that he’d take him to the Master. Of course, only the Xander POV guy watched the scene and he was telling the others what happened in the scene. He mentions Xander holding a cross at Angel’s face and the newbies flipped out. Why would Xander point a cross at Angel’s face??? He’s so petty and Angel is a good guy…. and I was patiently waiting for the Xander POV guy to explain, but he never did!!!

This is how the scene played out: Xander asked Angel to take him to the Master to save Buffy, Angel responded by mocking and belittling Xander, when Xander realized that Angel wouldn’t help him, he used the cross! That scene was an awesome Xander scene, but because the Xander POV guy left out the little detail, it turned into another “Xander is a stupid ass” scene. Sigh.

Priceless
02-02-18, 09:20 PM
Buffy podcast Pop Culture Role Call (http://popculturerolecall.libsyn.com/) is a very interesting approach to watching/rewatching the series. You got four commenters, each one is watching from a character’s POV. The Buffy POV and Willow POV are newbies.

I love the Xander POV guy (Yeah, yeah, big surprise!) poor thing is trying so hard to defend Xander while the two newbies really, really, really dislike him.

Anyway, I was listening to their Prophecy Girl podcast, and they were discussing when Xander went to Angel’s apartment so that he’d take him to the Master. Of course, only the Xander POV guy watched the scene and he was telling the others what happened in the scene. He mentions Xander holding a cross at Angel’s face and the newbies flipped out. Why would Xander point a cross at Angel’s face??? He’s so petty and Angel is a good guy…. and I was patiently waiting for the Xander POV guy to explain, but he never did!!!

This is how the scene played out: Xander asked Angel to take him to the Master to save Buffy, Angel responded by mocking and belittling Xander, when Xander realized that Angel wouldn’t help him, he used the cross! That scene was an awesome Xander scene, but because the Xander POV guy left out the little detail, it turned into another “Xander is a stupid ass” scene. Sigh.

That's a very interesting way to approach watching the show. Are the people actually fans of the characters they are pov-ing? To do it justice, they really do need to be fans to fight their characters corner. I'll definitely give it a listen, though they don't sound very open minded.

TriBel
02-02-18, 09:39 PM
I don't listen to Podcasts. I don't generally like Podcasts. I lie - I listen to Welcome to Nightvale but Welcome to Nightvale isn't a podcast - it's a recipe for life! I don't listen to Podcasts or read "Metas" because, more often than not, there's a bias in them and I'm not used to reading material that's biased. Academic essays can be dry but I'm never left thinking they prefer one character over another. And God forbid they'd hate a character!


I met Jane at a Buffy convention years back and she was so, so nice. She did a live commentary on Pangs which was wonderful. I ended up not only being a
fan of her writing but her as a person.

I like Jane Espenson! I don't think fans realise just how clever she is (I hate it when fans claim writers are stupid. The writers, poets etc I work with are lots of things but stupid they ain't!). She worked with George Lakoff at Berkeley and he credits her with some of his ideas on metaphor. He also mentions her in his later book "Philosophy in the Flesh: The Embodied Mind and Its Challenge to Western Thought". IMO, "the embodied mind" is what we see in S7. I'd like to meet her (not saying it would be reciprocated - I'd probably bore her to death...sigh, :sadwalk:

Priceless
02-02-18, 09:50 PM
I don't listen to Podcasts. I don't generally like Podcasts. I lie - I listen to Welcome to Nightvale but Welcome to Nightvale isn't a podcast - it's a recipe for life! I don't listen to Podcasts or read "Metas" because, more often than not, there's a bias in them and I'm not used to reading material that's biased. Academic essays can be dry but I'm never left thinking they prefer one character over another. And God forbid they'd hate a character!


I tend to listen to EVERY podcast and then just stop listening once they start saying things that I completely disagree with :D They are incredibly biased. Very few of the reviewers seem to be real fans of the show, and some can't even remember what happened from one episode to the next. But sometimes someone will say something you'd never thought of before, or present a character in a different light, and then it's interesting. I like Buffering because it's very queer-eyed and they obviously love the show and create great songs for each episode.


I like Jane Espenson! I don't think fans realise just how clever she is (I hate it when fans claim writers are stupid. The writers, poets etc I work with are lots of things but stupid they ain't!). She worked with George Lakoff at Berkeley and he credits her with some of his ideas on metaphor. He also mentions her in his later book "Philosophy in the Flesh: The Embodied Mind and Its Challenge to Western Thought". IMO, "the embodied mind" is what we see in S7. I'd like to meet her (not saying it would be reciprocated - I'd probably bore her to death...sigh,


I would pay to hear you and Jane Espenson chatting over a cup of coffee! I probably would only understand every third word, but I'd love it. She is so clever, her writing is witty and charming and she obviously loves all the characters and I feel like she truly knows them and wants us to understand them and their motives as well as she understands them

Sosa lola
03-02-18, 08:16 AM
That's a very interesting way to approach watching the show. Are the people actually fans of the characters they are pov-ing? To do it justice, they really do need to be fans to fight their characters corner. I'll definitely give it a listen, though they don't sound very open minded.

The Buffy POV and Willow POV people are newbies watching the show for the first time so they don't really know what's gonna happen. I loved how confused they were while watching The Zeppo. :D Since they didn't see any of the Xander parts, they were really confused. Also, the Buffy POV while watching BB&B while Buffy was turned into a rat.

Priceless
03-02-18, 09:40 AM
Lani Diane Rich (Still Pretty podcast) has said once she finished S7 she's starting from the beginning again. That's absolutely made my life. I used to listen to her and her-now-ex on Dusted, and he always seemed to drown her out, so I am so happy she's going to get to say all those things about the show she never got to say before :D

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The Buffy POV and Willow POV people are newbies watching the show for the first time so they don't really know what's gonna happen. I loved how confused they were while watching The Zeppo. :D Since they didn't see any of the Xander parts, they were really confused. Also, the Buffy POV while watching BB&B while Buffy was turned into a rat.

How can they review the whole episode if they don't know what's going on! I have to listen to this podcast because it just sounds weird :lol:

flow
06-02-18, 08:02 PM
POTNīs review for A New Man is up on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BONcw2hRfyQ&list=PLQ-lwpabT36lCyetf0mw8yrzJ1sC9lXQ3&index=13

flow

Priceless
09-02-18, 12:00 PM
Buffering the Vampire Slayer's review of Enemies is just brilliant, I was laughing out loud. If you are a fuffy fan and/or like making fun of Angel, you are missing out if you are not listening to this podcast :D

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If you are an Angel fan I'll admit once Buffiering turn their humour onto Spike in later seasons I may not be such a big fan, just saying my bias might start to show :p

flow
10-02-18, 04:37 PM
Just aheads up, the Slayerfest podcast people's latest review is 'Pangs' and has writer Jane Espenson as a guest to talk about it.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-46-a-very-espenson-thanksgiving

I am at this very moment listening to it and it is so interesting to hear Jane Espenson talk about how scenes were changed in the production process and how detailed the episode Pangs was planned out by Joss, before the writers started writing. Thank you so much for the link !

ETA: I also found it really interesting, how she described her thorough research about the Chumash. She even drove, to where they lived and went to a museum and talked to people. And then she had no time left, for any research about the place, where Riley was born and raised. That is why, he is from Iowa, because that is, where she is from herself and she didn`t have to research that ;-)

ETA (again): There was another comment, I found interesting. I have often read, that Spike was made a member of the main cast, because Cordy, who had been the one, who threw the truth in everybodies face, had left the Show. I think, even JM himself has said something like that somwhere. But Jane Espenson clearly states in that podcast, that Anya was the substitute for Cordy, which makes a lot of sense, because Anya`s straightforwardness is very similiar to Cordy`s.

I was also listening today to After Show Reacts (to) Lovers Walk and I want to recommend it to evryone here, who is a Spike-fan. Her enthsudiasm about Spike reappearing is very sweet.

flow

kimothyschma
11-02-18, 03:13 AM
If you are an Angel fan I'll admit once Buffiering turn their humour onto Spike in later seasons I may not be such a big fan, just saying my bias might start to show :p

Kristin has said that Spike is her favorite character, so I have high hopes. <3

Buffering is my favorite Buffy podcast. I'm also a big fan of Still Pretty and everything Lani Diane Rich does. She is starting an Angel podcast, too, called Still Dead. :xd

Priceless
11-02-18, 11:02 AM
Kristin has said that Spike is her favorite character, so I have high hopes. <3

Buffering is my favorite Buffy podcast. I'm also a big fan of Still Pretty and everything Lani Diane Rich does. She is starting an Angel podcast, too, called Still Dead. :xd

I knew Kristin had great taste :D Buffering is a great podcast, I love 'detective Angel' so much it makes me laugh out loud everytime. The music is amazing too. They are both so funny and talented.

Lani Diane Rich is such a good communicator. I don't agree with everything she says, but I love listening to her, she's intelligent and enthusiastic. She said recently that once she finishes Still Pretty she's going to start from the begining again, which makes me very happy. I used to listen to Dusted and felt Alistair had a tendency to talk over Lani and I can't wait to just hear her opinions without them being filtered through him.

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I was also listening today to After Show Reacts (to) Lovers Walk and I want to recommend it to evryone here, who is a Spike-fan. Her enthsudiasm about Spike reappearing is very sweet.


Watched this. She is very sweet, and it's nice to know she'd missed Spike as much as the rest of us did :D

kimothyschma
11-02-18, 02:16 PM
I knew Kristin had great taste :D Buffering is a great podcast, I love 'detective Angel' so much it makes me laugh out loud everytime. The music is amazing too. They are both so funny and talented.

Lani Diane Rich is such a good communicator. I don't agree with everything she says, but I love listening to her, she's intelligent and enthusiastic. She said recently that once she finishes Still Pretty she's going to start from the begining again, which makes me very happy. I used to listen to Dusted and felt Alistair had a tendency to talk over Lani and I can't wait to just hear her opinions without them being filtered through him.

What don't you agree with? I love pretty much everything she has to say about Spike/Buffy, but we don't always agree on which other episodes are good or bad.

I don't know if you've listened to Big Strong Yes, but it turns out things were a lot worse than that. :s He is not a good person.

flow
11-02-18, 02:26 PM
I am glad, Lani Diane Rich is going to start all over again at season 1, once she is finished with season 7. I was just thinking the other day, how sad it is, that her vlog will be ending soon. A definite YAY ! from me for that.

I am not really a podcast fan. I listened to the one with Jane Espenson just because of her and I also listen also to the Sunnydale fanfic Club, if they have an author, that I like. But most of the times they are just too long for me to listen to.


flow

kimothyschma
11-02-18, 02:44 PM
I admit that I have bitten off more than I can chew when it comes to podcasts. I want to listen to all of them and there's not enough time in the day. I have a big backlog in my podcasts app and thanks to this thread I'm adding more! :help:

Priceless
11-02-18, 03:05 PM
I am currently subscribed to 26 podcasts. God I didn't realise it was that many till just now! Not all of them Buffy ones I should add :D

Lani watches Buffy from a story/character perspective and although she loves S7 I'm often interpreting things very differently. Thanks to TriBel I've come to a much greater understanding of the philosophical basis of much of the season, that the season is about seeing v's understanding, the use/misuse of language and meanings within episodes that I had just never thought about before.

I don't listen to A Big Strong Yes, but it doesn't surprise me that Alistair was a bit of a dick, I always thought that when I listened to Dusted. He'd talk over Lani, laugh at his own jokes and dominate the conversation, though he could sometimes be quite interesting so I kept listening.

kimothyschma
11-02-18, 04:25 PM
She reveals a lot about him on that podcast, in bits and pieces. He turned out to be a that's-not-even-his-real-name level liar. :down:

Priceless
14-02-18, 10:42 AM
Love Lani, and thought this was very good


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JQJUFMxC34

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The Sunnydale Fanfic Club on twitter:

#BANGEL fans check out “If You Come Softly” by JilyandBambi
https://archiveofourown.org/works/11909904
SUBMIT QUESTIONS BY FEB. 16TH

#SPUFFY fans check out “A Different Kind of Hell” by OffYourBird
http://archiveofourown.org/works/11689914
SUBMIT QUESTIONS BY FEB. 20TH
#SUPERFAN submit questions for both stories!

They also have a tubmlr site, where you can post your questions. I've really enjoyed their podcasts, and the reading group has read A Different Kind Of Hell, so anyone who's read that or If You Come Softly, then I hope you'll all put forward some quesitons.







TriBel
14-02-18, 06:52 PM
I take back whatever I said earlier. Lani - whatever her name is - is my favourite. :)

Priceless
14-02-18, 08:28 PM
If you like Lani Diane Rich, she's starting an AtS podcast, which I am sure will be really interesting and I'll be giving it a listen.

TriBel
14-02-18, 09:11 PM
If you like Lani Diane Rich, she's starting an AtS podcast, which I am sure will be really interesting and I'll be giving it a listen. Is she going to upset people? I only like her when she's upsetting people. I fear I'm becoming a bad person. :sadwalk: I love this little emoji - I want it for a pet. It's the Battersea Dogs Home of emojis. I love it more than most people I know.

Priceless
14-02-18, 09:18 PM
Is she going to upset people? I only like her when she's upsetting people. I fear I'm becoming a bad person. :sadwalk: I love this little emoji - I want it for a pet. It's the Battersea Dogs Home of emojis. I love it more than most people I know.

I believe Paul O'Grady is going to do a tv show about lost and unwanted emojis, perhaps you'll see an emoji on there that you could adopt :D

Oh I am sure Lani will upset someone

Priceless
26-02-18, 09:13 AM
I'd like to recommend 'Chosen' a new-ish Buffy podcast. One of the reviewers has never seen it before so it makes it really interesting to listen to a newbies opinion. She thought Dru and Angel were brother and sister at one point and is finding it all a bit confusing and off-putting :)

flow
26-02-18, 03:30 PM
The Sunnydale FanFic Club have put up their new Podcast Episode featuring OffYourBird and her fic "A Different Kind Of Hell":

http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6292603/tdest_id/612464

flow

Silver1
26-02-18, 04:20 PM
I know this isn't a podcast, and some may have seen this already, but it basically serves the same function and I don't think this fits in the video thread. Imo a superb video essay that gets to the heart of why both BTVS and ATS work so well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYheIh8Ksuo

Highly recommended.

Priceless
26-02-18, 04:46 PM
The Sunnydale FanFic Club have put up their new Podcast Episode featuring OffYourBird and her fic "A Different Kind Of Hell":

http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6292603/tdest_id/612464

flow

OffYourBird (Katie) sounds really nice, and spoke so enthusiastically about fanfics. They asked both my questions, feel like I've had a brush with fame now :high5:

Congratulations to the February fanfic challenge winner! I don't want to spoil it but it's a great story
Dawnstasia by WillowFromBuffy and I think the writer is really talented.

I intend to read Control by Ambut, if anyone else is up for it? It's Willow/Giles and that relationship intrigues me.

flow
26-02-18, 08:02 PM
I know this isn't a podcast, and some may have seen this already, but it basically serves the same function and I don't think this fits in the video thread. Imo a superb video essay that gets to the heart of why both BTVS and ATS work so well.

I have followed Passion of the Nerd`s episode reviews for quite a while now, but I hadn`t watched this. I don`t even know, how I could have missed it. It really is superb. Thank you for sharing <3.

flow

ETA: Still Pretty has her review for Storyteller up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBbxlFnbIOM

And Passion of the Nerd his review for The I In Team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euBDgqziM4I

I was never a huge fan of storyteller, but Lani Diane Rich made that Episode more intersting to me.

Passion of the Nerd said "I need brain bleach" referring to Riley "sexy" face.

Silver1
02-03-18, 11:13 PM
For those interested in such things (like me) Passion of the nerd is currently doing a live stream/chat about the editing one of his video essays, this time the Angel episode 'She' with comparisons to other Buffy episodes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Sq94ku4u8

bespangled
05-03-18, 09:21 AM
I'd like to recommend 'Chosen' a new-ish Buffy podcast. One of the reviewers has never seen it before so it makes it really interesting to listen to a newbies opinion. She thought Dru and Angel were brother and sister at one point and is finding it all a bit confusing and off-putting :)

I was going to rec them too - Marissa - the newbie - is great. She was stunned to find out Angel was a vampire! And there is no Xander hate here, which is a refreshing change.

So right now she is a Bangel - and she has one more podcast before Surprise and Innocence! Her friend Mel, the other podcaster, is afraid that Marissa will hate her forever!

Chosen (https://btvsmmpnetwork.wordpress.com/)

Priceless
05-03-18, 03:57 PM
So right now she is a Bangel - and she has one more podcast before Surprise and Innocence! Her friend Mel, the other podcaster, is afraid that Marissa will hate her forever!


I really enjoy podcasts when one or more of the reviewers have never seen the show, to see where their allegiances lie an what changes over the course of the watch.

bespangled
05-03-18, 11:22 PM
I really enjoy podcasts when one or more of the reviewers have never seen the show, to see where their allegiances lie an what changes over the course of the watch.

This is the best part. I tend to listen to a few podcasts and a newbie like Marissa is rare!

Also the Chosen tumblr (https://mmpodcastnetwork.tumblr.com/archive)is fun - Mel has made a few great memes.

TriBel
06-03-18, 01:04 PM
I like Lani Diane Rich - not because of what she says (I rarely listen) but because she exists and it winds some people up. :evil: Yay! I'm priding myself in my pettiness. :D

Priceless
08-03-18, 10:30 AM
I've just found Hush: A Buffy Podcast. It's an Irish podcast reviewing the show from episode 1. They're a husband and wife team and they've only done two episodes, so it's hard to judge how good they are, but I enjoyed the first episode.

They've had a mention in The Irish Times, who seemed to like them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/revisit-hellmouth-with-irish-made-buffy-podcast-1.3415725

bespangled
08-03-18, 11:42 PM
Limerick based?! I'm assuming this is the place and not the rhymes. Gonna have to find that.

Silver1
20-03-18, 10:29 AM
Passion of the nerd's just uploaded his take on 'Goodbye Iowa'. God, I was up for 6 hours last night watching him edit this on a live stream whilst talking about the show. Love his 'Riley sex face' sound effect. :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyHlS-GXhsU

Highly recommended as per.

bespangled
20-03-18, 11:16 AM
Chosen (https://btvsmmpnetwork.wordpress.com/) just finished Phases &Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered. On Thursday they will be talking about Passion. I love this time in a newbie's watch through. Right now Marissa think the show will wave a maguffin and Angel will just be god again. Seeing him kill Jenny was a huge shock to me in my first viewing. I think that was when I realized this was not going to be the average teen horror show - that it would deal with real horror.

Priceless
20-03-18, 08:43 PM
I really enjoy Chosen, it's become one of the better podcasts out there.

I'm going off Buffy Speak as one of the reviewers just yawns throughout every episode! It's so off putting and annoying. I don't know if it's nerves or if she's just tired :p

I wish more older people did podcasts, there would be less giggling :D

- - - Updated - - -

https://thesunnydalefanficclub.com/contests/


The April Fanfic contest for the Sunnydale Fanfic Club. Really hope there are some on here that are fic writers and they
feel like they can submit a story! How to submit is in the link
Guidelines for April Fanfic Contest!
1. The theme for April is Rain.

2. Must be newly written! Our goal is to create more & new Buffy fanfiction content. Buffy is one of the largest fanfiction genres on the internet, but we want to make it #1!

3. One Submission per person.

4. The Challenge Object Needs to make an appearance: The Challenge Object for this month is the BROKEN YOGURT MACHINE. Do not toss this object away in one sentence. Try your best to embrace it.

NO WORD MINIMUM.

DUE DATE FOR THIS CONTEST IS APRIL 23rd at Midnight P.S.T.
Winner will be announced April 30th.

Silver1
20-03-18, 09:17 PM
Slayerfest 98's take on season 3's 'Enemies' is up.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-53-buffy-and-faiths-freaky-friday-part-1

flow
22-03-18, 08:25 PM
I justed watched it and it was POTN at his best. I loved it. I loved, what he said about Spike not being a truth-teller but a manipulator. That is - but of course he said it better, than I ever could - , what I meant, when I mentioned on the Lies My Parents Told Me thread, that Spike does not tell people something about them, that is true,m but he tells them something, that is their own fear.

I also loved, what he said about us not being static but being within the flow of time.

flow

flow

Priceless
22-03-18, 09:20 PM
I justed watched it and it was POTN at his best. I loved it. I loved, what he said about Spike not being a truth-teller but a manipulator. That is - but of course he said it better, than I ever could - , what I meant, when I mentioned on the Lies My Parents Told Me thread, that Spike does not tell people something about them, that is true,m but he tells them something, that is their own fear.

I also loved, what he said about us not being static but being within the flow of time.

flow

flow

I think POTN missed the point that you can only be a good manipulator if you understand people well enough to know what's going to hurt them. I got the impression that he thinks Spike doesn't understand people, whereas the opposite is true. He also doesn't get that the writers are setting them up as a couple going forward, which is why all the innuendo and relationship talk, it's to associate them and 'relationships/sex/romance' in our heads. Why do they talk about each others love lives/partners etc. otherwise.

flow
22-03-18, 10:03 PM
I did not think, he wanted to say that Spike does not understand People at all. I think, he was presuming, that you can only manipulate someone, if you have insight into that person`s personality and fears. Spike clearly has that.

But he is at this point - in season 4 - not using it, to "help" people, get to know themselves better. He is using it as a weapon. He actually still uses it as a weapon in season 7, when he tells Robin, that his mother did not love him enough to quit as a slayer.

I am not saying, he wasn`t justified, to do that. He was fighting for his life. But I don`t think, it is true, that Nikki did not love Robin, I think, it was Robin`s innermost fear, that she did not love him.

As for the writers setting Spike and Buffy up as a couple - I don`t think, the writers deliberately went there back in season four. I think, they still went for Riley and Buffy as a couple. I remember JM saying once, that he was told by JW after the finale of season five, that Spike and Buffy would be a thing and JM also said, that he was totally surprised by that.

I think, that a lot of the innuendos, we see nowadays are more a proof for the chemistry between SMG and JM than for the foreplanning of the writers.

We have talked about the cheek streaks in season 2 some time ago (different time, different place.....) Do you remember that thread ? To me those cheek streaks are a proof, that Spike and Buffy were meant for each other from the very first Episode in which they ever met on.

But I also know, that it was already settled back then, that Spike would be killed by Angelus in the very same season. So, why did they use those cheek streaks ? It can`t have been deliberately, or if, they can`t have meant to make a connection between Spike and Buffy.

flow

- - - Updated - - -

And thanks to POTN I finally know, whom Adam always reminded me of. He-man, of course ! How could I not recognize him ?

flow

Priceless
23-03-18, 12:14 PM
I did not think, he wanted to say that Spike does not understand People at all. I think, he was presuming, that you can only manipulate someone, if you have insight into that person`s personality and fears. Spike clearly has that.


You could be right flow, but I don't get that from what he says:

Spike is still present and as ever anxious to comment on Buffy and her taste in men [Ian doesn't explain why he's anxious 'as ever' - for me it's the way to build up the relationship in the audiences eyes, but Ian doesn't actually explain what he means by the 'as ever']

Whatever your feelings about Riley of Parker I think it's important to keep in mind that Spike's commentary on Buffy's personal life sometimes feels like it has a whiff of truth to it [well nope, not to me, it feels like it's got a whole lot of truth to it] but that's because Spike's a manipulator and knows the best places to stab at Buffy are the things she already fears about herself [to me this means Spike is reading her pretty damn well, probably better than any of the scoobies. By using the phrase 'whiff of truth' Ian makes it sound as though there is no truth at all in what Spikes says, and I disagree with that]

Spike speaks enough truth to seduce Buffy into a bit of the old self-hatred but I think it's important in our reading of the show to distinguish between truth and his manipulations. [Ian doesn't explain why Spike needs Buffy to be self-hating or why he is using her love life to make her feel that way. He could bring up her issues with her father, or Joyce who she kept secrets from, he could bring up her lack of intelligence, how she's only at a 'communtiy college' etc. there are so many other ways to undermine Buffy, but nope, he brings up her love life. Ian uses the word 'seduce', which I wonder if that's deliberate, or if he's just picking up the vibe from the season, that it's really about Spike seducing Buffy, and the writers seducing the audience into this romance]

I don't deny Spike tries to be a manipulator. But he's never been very good at it. He's simply not Machiavellian enough, he lacks patience and doesn't want to put any real effort into it. I do not think he's deliberately trying to manipulate Buffy - if so, at this point, to what end? He is currently relying on her for protection and sanctuary, it would only undermine his position to deliberately undermine Buffy.

I think he knows her and is speaking his truth to her, he believes every word he says, just as I think he believes every word he says to Robin Wood. I think Ian is giving him far too much credit. Spike is one for direct action, violence, physicality, very much like Buffy, he doesn't go in for the psychology of it all.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wanted to mention that Tiny Fences made it to the finish line. They are one of the very few Buffy podcasts who made it all the way through from Welcome to the Hellmouth to Chosen. It took three years, so that's a massive commitment, so well done to them!

vampmogs
24-03-18, 01:15 AM
to me this means Spike is reading her pretty damn well, probably better than any of the scoobies.

Statements like these always make me flinch to be honest. How does Spike, at S4, read Buffy better than the Scoobies do? That's pretty insulting to the rich and complex relationships she has with her friends in comparison to a guy she's actually interacted with on a fairly minimal level at this point. I'm not trying to attack you so I hope it doesn't come across that way but nothing about his insights into Buffy here ("You do have pretty tragic taste in men Goldilocks") are crass observations that couldn't be made by anyone who isn't familiar with Buffy on a pretty basic level, least of all the other Scoobies. And it's an oversimplified remark that isn't entirely accurate (he's wrong about Riley for a start) or that isn't immediately obvious to anybody else in the room. Of course Buffy is freaking out about the idea of Riley being involved in this and that is very evident to everyone in the room. The only difference is that Spike says it out loud because he gets satisfaction out of hurting her or causing her anxiety whereas the others obviously wouldn't say such things.

I really agree with POTN that it's important to distinguish between Spike's "truths" and his manipulations. This has been a point of contention for me in fandom for a long time where it seems to be a common opinion that Spike is a "truth-teller" and the most insightful character (unless we're discussing the AR where Spike is supposedly suddenly incapable of distinguishing between Buffy's very serious "nos" because he's a soulless vampire incapable of reading people correctly) and that if Spike says it about someone it must be true because he says it with such bravado and confidence that people accept it as fact. What Spike does well is take tiny observations or insights into people (even if they're half truths or not the full picture) and manages to weaponise them to hurt that person. They're not insights only he can gleam into said person, it's just that he's often the only one who wants to use them to hurt people. For example, in Doomed he manages to read Willow and Xander's insecurities well enough to know that attacking them about being the same "10th grade losers they always were" would hit a nerve but the part about "Buffy being too much of a softy to cut them loose" is total nonsense and stated only to cause them pain. I think POTN really hit the nail on the head in a way that I've never really been able to articulate it.

And I think the most obvious reason that Spike likes to manipulate and hurt Buffy is that, well, Spike is evil. Spike enjoys seeing "her miserable" as he tells Adam. Just like he loved hurting Xander and Willow in Doomed purely to gain satisfaction out of seeing them suffer. He even gives Riley, his captor, a thumbs up if he's trying to kill her, and later threatens to set Faith onto the Scoobies should the opportunity arise because he "hates them all." They may have offered him protection and Spike may at times rely on that but his base instincts are still to cause them pain and revel in their misery.

flow
24-03-18, 10:34 AM
As usually I agree with a most of what you say, but not with all of it ;-)

Yes, Spike often uses his insight as a weapon and, as I have said in the other thread, it is often not an insight into the peoples emotions or personality or character, but an insight into their insecurities. Which is why his remark about Buffys bleeding tragic taste in men cuts. Her relationships and her attemps at relationships have failed before and right now she fears, she has been fooled again.

But as Spike is imho an ambigious character, there are actually occasions, when he is the only one, who has insight into someone else. For example, when Buffy and Giles talk about how well Willow is coping with Oz`having left her and he points out - very truthfully - that she is hanging on a thread.

Spike never has the same insight if he himself is concerned. That is why he believed, his love for Buffy could make him a better man. Imho it is this lack of insight, that leads to SR.

flow

vampmogs
24-03-18, 10:59 AM
But as Spike is imho an ambigious character, there are actually occasions, when he is the only one, who has insight into someone else. For example, when Buffy and Giles talk about how well Willow is coping with Oz`having left her and he points out - very truthfully - that she is hanging on a thread.

This is true but I think it has less to do with with Spike as an individual and more to do with the fact that Spike was an outsider from the group and that from the periphery he is able to see a clearer picture than those up close sometimes can. Without bias and an emotional investment in what is happening there can be more clarity. The exact same was true of Faith in Who Are You when she was able to tell straight away that Willow and Tara were more than just friends and that Willow "wasn't driving stick anymore", despite Willow's closest friends having no idea until Willow comes out in A New Moon. I don't think that means Faith is more insightful or has a better read on people than Willow's friends do (on the contrary Faith has a rather disastrous track record of reading people) but simply that as an outsider she had the advantage of seeing what was really going on. As you say, when Spike himself is concerned he doesn't have the same insight which suggests to me that his insight into people isn't as defining of a trait as often suggested in fandom. For example, he's a mess of contradictions when he offers "insight" into Buffy in S6 despite constantly telling her what she is and how she feels, and that's because his own biases clearly play a part in what he wants her to be and what he wants her to think about herself.

Priceless
24-03-18, 05:39 PM
Statements like these always make me flinch to be honest. How does Spike, at S4, read Buffy better than the Scoobies do? That's pretty insulting to the rich and complex relationships she has with her friends in comparison to a guy she's actually interacted with on a fairly minimal level at this point. I'm not trying to attack you so I hope it doesn't come across that way but nothing about his insights into Buffy here ("You do have pretty tragic taste in men Goldilocks") are crass observations that couldn't be made by anyone who isn't familiar with Buffy on a pretty basic level, least of all the other Scoobies. And it's an oversimplified remark that isn't entirely accurate (he's wrong about Riley for a start) or that isn't immediately obvious to anybody else in the room. Of course Buffy is freaking out about the idea of Riley being involved in this and that is very evident to everyone in the room. The only difference is that Spike says it out loud because he gets satisfaction out of hurting her or causing her anxiety whereas the others obviously wouldn't say such things.


The scoobies do have a rich and complex relationship, but right now they are so wrapped up in their own lives, they aren't seeing what's going on with Buffy. Willow is embarking on her own very new relationship and Xander/Anya are going through teething troubles of their own. I think Spike seeing Buffy better than the scoobies right now makes perfect sense and fits in with the themes of the season, with friendships changing and growing apart now they've left school. Sometimes those closest to us are the last to notice anything, that's just life.

I agree he probably is getting satisfaction out of hurting her, but I don't think it's as Machiavellian as POTN would have us believe. He flashes the balcony scene from S6 in the video, to make his point. But that's two years in the future and has little to do with what is happening here. I would also say that every other character gets to be snide and nasty to Spike, Xander was even encouraging him to dust a few eps ago, so Spike is learning from the humans he's around, cruelty is a two way street.

I don't feel attacked vampmogs. We're on a forum and you are disagreeing with my views and ideas, that's what a forum is for, so no worries :D


I really agree with POTN that it's important to distinguish between Spike's "truths" and his manipulations. This has been a point of contention for me in fandom for a long time where it seems to be a common opinion that Spike is a "truth-teller" and the most insightful character (unless we're discussing the AR where Spike is supposedly suddenly incapable of distinguishing between Buffy's very serious "nos" because he's a soulless vampire incapable of reading people correctly) and that if Spike says it about someone it must be true because he says it with such bravado and confidence that people accept it as fact. What Spike does well is take tiny observations or insights into people (even if they're half truths or not the full picture) and manages to weaponise them to hurt that person. They're not insights only he can gleam into said person, it's just that he's often the only one who wants to use them to hurt people. For example, in Doomed he manages to read Willow and Xander's insecurities well enough to know that attacking them about being the same "10th grade losers they always were" would hit a nerve but the part about "Buffy being too much of a softy to cut them loose" is total nonsense and stated only to cause them pain. I think POTN really hit the nail on the head in a way that I've never really been able to articulate it.


I don't think the AR and being a 'truth teller' are the same thing at all. In fact the AR goes to show how un-Machavellian Spike actually is, showing that he's not subtle, he's not cunning and he's not deceptive. He's action, big gestures, drama. But that is something different from having an innate understanding of people and of Buffy in particular, which he does have.

I do agree that what Spike does do weaponise the knowledge he has of people. But for me that doesn't undermine the fact that he knows people, he understands emotion and vulnerability more than any other character. There are so many examples of him reading people in a way no-one else does or can. It's one of his best qualities, even if he does use it to do evil, but as you say, he is an evil demon

vampmogs
25-03-18, 12:28 AM
I would also say that every other character gets to be snide and nasty to Spike, Xander was even encouraging him to dust a few eps ago, so Spike is learning from the humans he's around, cruelty is a two way street.

A vampire who has tortured, raped and murdered for 100+ years didn't learn cruelty from the Scoobies. This was the same Spike who was grinning from ear to ear when mentioning Marcus' pedophilic urges in In the Dark and who admitted to finding pictures of starving children funny in Pangs. And these would be the same Scoobies who sheltered and protected Spike even after his numerous attempts to kill them, as recently as trying to murder Willow in The Initiative, and who had even suggested that he could be a force for good in The I In Team but Spike told them to piss off ("We're through. You got it? Honeymoons over")

If Spike was to learn anything from the Scoobies in S4 it would be their great capacity for compassion and goodness. It is remarkable that they spared him, took him in, fed him, saved his life, and had even offered him the chance to make amends, when Spike had done absolutely nothing at this point to deserve such generosity.

Priceless
25-03-18, 02:14 PM
A vampire who has tortured, raped and murdered for 100+ years didn't learn cruelty from the Scoobies. This was the same Spike who was grinning from ear to ear when mentioning Marcus' pedophilic urges in In the Dark and who admitted to finding pictures of starving children funny in Pangs. And these would be the same Scoobies who sheltered and protected Spike even after his numerous attempts to kill them, as recently as trying to murder Willow in The Initiative, and who had even suggested that he could be a force for good in The I In Team but Spike told them to piss off ("We're through. You got it? Honeymoons over")

If Spike was to learn anything from the Scoobies in S4 it would be their great capacity for compassion and goodness. It is remarkable that they spared him, took him in, fed him, saved his life, and had even offered him the chance to make amends, when Spike had done absolutely nothing at this point to deserve such generosity.

Season 4 is about Spike having to learn change, to become something different. He's taking his cues from the scoobies because he cannot be a vampire anymore. His demon is probably wanting to rip them apart, but that's not possible. As you say, he has tortured, raped and murdered which are all 'acts' of violence. He's not manipulative as such, he's a direct action kind of vampire, he learns to be manipulative from the scoobies. One of the differences between Angel and Spike is that Angel is written to be the emotional manipulator, while Spike suggests ripping off heads.


If you are a good person, white-hat hero type, you do not save people because they deserve it. That is pretty paternalistic/Victorian thinking, that only the 'worthy' deserved to be saved. The truly good, as Buffy is, does not judge that way. Spike doesn't have to do anything to be saved as such, he is now considered helpless and Buffy cannot in all good conscience turn him away.

vampmogs
25-03-18, 03:12 PM
Season 4 is about Spike having to learn change, to become something different. He's taking his cues from the scoobies because he cannot be a vampire anymore.

I think we're in danger of infantilizing Spike to an extent I don't really agree with. Nevertheless, as I said, if he were to learn anything from the Scoobies behaviour in S4 it's that they showed him remarkable compassion and mercy given what he was and what he had done to them and, IMO, it's greatly unfair to suggest he learnt to be cruel because they were cruel. Spike was treated about as well as he deserved to be treated under the circumstances. He was an unrepentant killer who, murderous nature aside, also laced pretty much everything he said to them with venomous contempt, sarcasm, insults or even threats. There are also times when the Scoobies sincerely tried to treat him like a friend, or the very least an ally, and Spike didn't want a bar of it. In This Years Girl he says "Can't any one of your damn little Scooby club at least try to remember that I hate you all?" In The I In Team when Giles suggests that he could have a calling to fight demons Spike snaps at him to "piss off" and explicitly tells Giles that he doesn't want anything to do with any of them ever again. Spike gave as good as he got and he explicitly rejected them in times when they weren't acting with any animosity towards him.

It's in Spike's nature to be cruel. He's connected to an "all consuming evil that wants to suck the world into a fiery oblivion" and takes pleasure in being cruel. He finds humour in other people's suffering, he waxes nostalgically about murdering helpless homeless people on park benches, he's slaughtered orphanages etc. It's not something he had to learn, least of all from the Scoobies, it's innate to him.


He's not manipulative as such, he's a direct action kind of vampire, he learns to be manipulative from the scoobies. One of the differences between Angel and Spike is that Angel is written to be the emotional manipulator, while Spike suggests ripping off heads.

You don't have to be Angelus levels of manipulative to still be capable of manipulation. We're all capable of manipulation. And Spike resorts to manipulation because in S4 he can't act on his violent impulses. He manipulates the Scoobies not because he "learns" it from them (seriously, he's a 120-something year old vampire, he's their elder) but because he can no longer "use their bones to bash their heads in." Also because, well, he's working with Adam and it's "fun."

I also wouldn't be so rigid in how I define Angelus and Spike. Whilst it's true that it was Angelus' modus operandi to manipulate and mentally torture his victims, he's also quite capable of enjoying the thrill of brutalising his victims. He "never grows tired" of snapping people's necks as he did with Jenny and he impressed Spike with how he "beat the groom to death with his own arm." Likewise, in Never Leave Me Spike describes in great detail that he knows just how much blood to drink from his female victims because "they'll still cry, when [he] -- because it's no fun if they don't cry." Spike wasn't all about the quick deaths, he liked to play with his victims too.


If you are a good person, white-hat hero type, you do not save people because they deserve it. That is pretty paternalistic/Victorian thinking, that only the 'worthy' deserved to be saved. The truly good, as Buffy is, does not judge that way. Spike doesn't have to do anything to be saved as such, he is now considered helpless and Buffy cannot in all good conscience turn him away.

Society is based on people being held accountable for their actions and when they do something wrong we punish them based on what they deserve and make sure that the punishment fits the crime etc. Buffy actually has killed vampires for a lot less, some before they even fully crawl out of their grave, but, yes, I agree with you, that it's down to Buffy's heroism and good nature that she can't bring herself to stake Spike whilst he's defenceless. Still, there's a world of difference between not killing Spike and sheltering Spike, feeding Spike, and caring enough about his well-being to suggest he get out of town, as the Scoobies do in S4. They went above and beyond what society does for a killer like Spike and well beyond what Slayers normally do for soulless vampires. It's also noteworthy that Spike repays Buffy's mercifulness by betraying the Scoobies and luring them into a trap with Adam with every intent to have them killed and for his chip to be removed so that he can kill again as well. The fact that Buffy still does not stake him, despite Spike proving that even with a chip he still is very dangerous, is, again, remarkable.

So what is it that they're actually guilty of? They don't hide their contempt for him, that is true, but you wouldn't accuse someone of being "cruel" if they were to insult a murderer who has tried to kill them on multiple occasions, or were apathetic to whether said murderer wanted to take their own life or not (and I'd point out that Xander actually saves Spike from the falling building in Doomed), so I wouldn't accuse the Scoobies of being cruel because they show contempt towards Spike. Of course they do - Willow would have pretty vivid memories of Spike throwing her down on the bed and attempting to murder her, Xander would have pretty vidi memories of Spike bashing his ribs in and trying to kill both of his best friends, Buffy would have very vivid memories of Spike attacking her with the Gem of Amara, and who even knows what Oz told her about Spike torturing Angel. And that's just Season 4. If contempt and unpleasantness is the worst that the Scoobies are guilty of towards Spike then, honestly, I think they're doing remarkably well. In all honesty, contempt and unpleasantness is what he at the very least deserves.

Priceless
25-03-18, 07:25 PM
You make a lot of good points vampmogs, and I wish I were as erudite as you, but I think we should just agree to disagree, because neither of us seems to want to change our opinions.

I still think Spike is speaking the truth, and I don't understand why POTN thinks he's trying to manipulate her, and to what end. I think he's using arguments from S6 to inform S4, but that undermines the show in many ways, because the characters go through so many changes, they are not essentially the same from S4 to 6. What Spike does, and why he does it are for different reasons.


Spike was treated about as well as he deserved to be treated under the circumstances. He was an unrepentant killer who, murderous nature aside, also laced pretty much everything he said to them with venomous contempt, sarcasm, insults or even threats.

But that's exactly how they treated him. Why should he treat them any differently then they treat him? They are blaming him for a nature he cannot help. He's a vampire, he did not choose to be a killer, he had no choice in the matter, he was simply following his nature. I would argue that they had a choice on how they treated him, but they've been brain washed by the Watchers Council to believe certain things, so maybe even their choices were limited.

- - - Updated - - -

ReWatchable has made it to the end too! I've absolutely loved Mitch on this podcast and missed him from the last Buffy episode, though all the reviewers are pretty good even though I disagree with them a lot ;) I really do think it's amazing when any podcast gets to the end of a 7-season re-watch.

vampmogs
25-03-18, 10:06 PM
I still think Spike is speaking the truth, and I don't understand why POTN thinks he's trying to manipulate her, and to what end.

Because it’s fun. The guy explicitly states that he gets enjoyment out of seeing Buffy miserable and that he got enjoyment out of turning the Scoobies against each other “Now *that* was fun”

What I can’t understand is why you think a guy who thinks pedophilia and famine pictures of starving children are funny needs an ulterior motive to manipulate and hurt Buffy other than the simple fact that Spike just gets personal satisfaction out of upsetting people because he’s, well, evil.


But that's exactly how they treated him. Why should he treat them any differently then they treat him?

I mean, I’ve literally just provided you with two examples or when the Scoobies came to Spike as a friend, or an ally, and Spike explicitly rejects them and tells them that he hates them and wants nothing do with them. So, no, they don’t treat each other the same.

I also reject the notion that there’s any kind of moral equivalence between the Scoobies and Spike in S4. The Scoobies treat Spike that way because he’s a murderous vampire who has recently tried to kill at least three of them, who has repeatedly expressed sadness that he can’t be out murdering innocent people, and who admitted to some pretty despicable inclinations. Spike hates the Scoobies because they’re human, they’re good, and because they’ve on numerous occasions stopped him from killing innocent people. There is actually no moral equivalence between the two. The Scoobies hate Spike for legitimately good reasons, Spike hates the Scoobies for all the wrong reasons.

Plus, you know, in my world it’s just manners to treat people with gratitude and respect when they’ve taken you in, sheltered you and fed you, despite there being absolutely no reason why they should have. Spike has a lot of reasons why he should have been nicer to the Scoobies given what they did for him (“Spike’s working for Adam!? After all we’ve done for him - nah I can’t even act surprised”) but the Scoobies have little reason why they’d be nice to Spike.


They are blaming him for a nature he cannot help. He's a vampire, he did not choose to be a killer, he had no choice in the matter, he was simply following his nature.

Who else should they be blaming, exactly? I mean, the show is built on the premise that vampires are evil so it’s not at all surprising that they’d morally condemn Spike. The entire premise of The Big Bad is also a moral condemnation. And yet, Spike is the only character who gets the “he can’t help it! You can’t blame him for his nature!” card. Where’s this mentality when it comes to Angelus, or The Master, or Glory etc? Or the numerous other creatures Buffy kills out of retribution for murdering innocents, like when she was hell bent on tracking down the Polgarma demon when she believed it to be responsible for that little boy’s death? I mean, yes, Spike’s very nature is to be an evil killer and, thus, the Scoobies condemn him the way they would any other evil killer because evil is, after all, a pretty condemnable thing, no?


I would argue that they had a choice on how they treated him, but they've been brain washed by the Watchers Council to believe certain things, so maybe even their choices were limited.

Firstly, you’re kind of commiting to the Watcher’s Council pitch pretty damingly here by pointing out repeatedly that it’s in Spike’s nature to be a killer. They’d agree with you. Secondly, it didn’t take being “brain washed” by the Council for the Scoobies to have legitimate reasons to dislike Spike. I’d say, for instance, that the memory of Spike terrorising Willow in her dorm room is enough to convince Willow that, yeah, this guys no good. Or Spike repeatedly reminding them that he’s evil ad nauseum. Thirdly, they did have a choice in how they treated him, and they treated him as any rationale person would in their position which is with contempt seeing as how he’s an unremorseful killer who constantly brags about all the people he’s killed and who repeatedly threatens to kill them should he ever get the chance again. And yet, despite all that, they’re unbelievably merciful in taking him in regardless.

I’m just flabbergasted by the idea that William the Bloody aka Mr I Like To Torture My Victims With Railroad Spikes didn’t understand cruelty until he learnt it from those dastardly Scoobies who sheltered and fed him for weeks on end and save the world on a daily basis.

Priceless
25-03-18, 11:17 PM
I can only say it again vampmogs. We shall have to agree to disagree. We are watching a very different show. POTN doesn't say Spike is having fun, he says he is deliberately trying to manipulate her, and my question is - to what end? If POTN had said 'oh here's Spike having fun', that would be fine, but that isn't what he says.

You equate Season 4 Spike with the Season 4 Scoobies, and I agree with you. My issue is that POTN did not. By showing images of Season 6, he equated the language Spike used in Season 4 with the balcony scene in Season 6, to make his point about manipulation. I don't believe Spike was 'manipulating' Buffy in Goodbye Iowa. If he was, to what end? In Season 6 Spike had a goal where Buffy was concerned, it was a completely different situation and I disagree that the situations were similar.

The Watchers Council is the representation of the patriarchy and nothing they say or do can be trusted. They have very little real world knowledge about vampires and other demons, see how green Giles and Wes were when they first started as watchers. Throughout the seasons vampires and demons are 'humanised' in such a way that it makes a lie of most of the Watcher Council's teaching.

I am still not convinced by POTN's arguments about Spike in Goodbye Iowa, and I go back to my basic arguments - Spike is not 'manipulating' Buffy in this episode because I don't believe he's trying to control or influence her, as you say, if anything, he's just having fun. He is not Machiavellian enough for that sort of deception, not at this point in his character growth.

Spike does understand Buffy and he is speaking the truth to her. He tells her something he believes is truthful about her, or I should say it's something I believe is the truth - Buffy does have terrible taste in men. It's not a 'whiff of truth' as POTN says, it is fully the whole truth imo.

I don't think you should judge a character in Season 4 by actions and situations in Season 6, unless you are judging all characters in the same way.

Skippcomet
25-03-18, 11:37 PM
Forget it, vampmogs. It's Woobie-town.

Priceless
25-03-18, 11:51 PM
Forget it, vampmogs. It's Woobie-town.

Yeah, forget it vampmogs, because sometimes you just have to accept not everyone agrees with you

betta
26-03-18, 05:08 AM
Season 4 is about Spike having to learn change, to become something different.

I think that in S4 Spike only tries to learn how to adapt to his new unfortunate situation; he doesn't want to become something different, not yet. He's evil, and he has fun being evil, even about the smallest things. He manipulates when he has a goal to achieve, like when he worked with Adam, but mostly he says words to hurt for the fun of it.

It's only in S5 that he starts learning change, starts wanting to become something different - mainly after he falls in love with Buffy; from the kind of pathetic affirmation "I can be good" to the sincerely grateful "I know I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man" shows how much he learned and changed.

Priceless
26-03-18, 07:53 AM
http://https://thesunnydalefanficclub.com/when-where/

The Sunnydale Fanfic Club episode with WillowFromBuffy is out! I haven't listened yet, but I'm sure it's great.

vampmogs
26-03-18, 09:46 AM
The Watchers Council is the representation of the patriarchy and nothing they say or do can be trusted. They have very little real world knowledge about vampires and other demons, see how green Giles and Wes were when they first started as watchers. Throughout the seasons vampires and demons are 'humanised' in such a way that it makes a lie of most of the Watcher Council's teaching.

I'm just really confused as to what this has to do with the Council? There are legitimate and rational reasons for why the Scoobies disliked Spike in S4. And you know who would be really offended by the idea that he's not all that evil? Spike.

We can agree to disagree but this is the second time now that you've suggested that anyone who dislikes Spike or opposes Spike is just a brainwashed puppet of the Council. And, hey, I detest the Council as much as the next person but your statement is factually wrong. The Council can, and have, been trusted on multiple occasions, which is why Buffy put up with them for as long as she did, and the writing is far more nuanced than what you suggest. I also think that if the Council are guilty of demonising (heh) vampires too much then you're also guilty of underestimating the extent of their evilness as well. I mean, c'mon, surely even you have to admit that claiming Spike didn't know how to be cruel is a severe case of rose-tinted glasses.

Silver1
26-03-18, 10:03 AM
Published today. Highly recommended as per.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SacH1xtrvE

He's a "scamp'. Oh Angel. :D

I do agree It's the first bit of real character development for Wesley.

Priceless
26-03-18, 10:08 AM
I'm just really confused as to what this has to do with the Council? There are legitimate and rational reasons for why the Scoobies disliked Spike in S4. And you know who would be really offended by the idea that he's not all that evil? Spike

You are quite right, Spike is evil. But why is he trying to manipulate Buffy here? My issue is that I don't see him as manipulating, I see him as simply speaking a truth. I may have rose tinted glasses on, but I do not believe this is a manipulation on Spikes part. If POTN had said 'Spike's having fun here' I'd be fine, but he calls it a 'manipulation' and I ask, to what end? What is he trying to achieve?

I may have rose tinted glasses on (I'm a total Spuffy fan) But you seem to think that everything Spike does is for evil intent. I disagree. I think Spike speaks the absolute truth, which the scoobies appear to agree with (by their faces) and only Giles half-heartedly disagrees. POTN says Spike speaks with 'a whiff of truth' - that's simply not true imo. He speaks his own truth, and one I agree with. Do you think Buffy has a good taste in men?

I am not saying Spike never lies or never manipulates. I am saying that in this one scene he is neither lying nor manipulating and POTN has mis-read the scene.

vampmogs
26-03-18, 10:35 AM
And why do you think Spike's speaking the truth, or a whiff of truth, or however you want to interpret it? To hurt her. So, I mean, even if you think that isn't manipulative, at the very least, yeah, it comes from evil intent. Spike enjoys seeing Buffy in pain ("And it'll make her miserable and I never get tired of that") so he says something that will deliberately hurt her. I think POTN calls it 'manipulative' because he believes Spike does it to stir the pot, to create discord and uncertainty, and to make Buffy doubt herself and Riley. There doesn't really have to be a grand scheme or purpose behind it other than that Spike likes to shit-stir. Being manipulative doesn't mean having to be as diabolic as I think you're interpreting it as being.

And yeah, I actually think Buffy does have pretty good taste in men. I mean, I'd happily sleep with Angel, Riley and Spike so I certainly can't fault her on that front. They're all handsome, and brave, and heroic, and successful at what they do, so, yeah, sure, they were pretty great catches. None of them were perfect but they all proved on numerous occasions that they could be pretty great guys most of the time. She was only 22 so I really don't consider it a big deal that none of them worked out or consider it an indictment of her taste of men in general. The only destructive relationship she ever knowingly got herself involved in was with Spike in S6 but by S7 he too was a decent guy and I'm going to cut her some major slack considering the circumstances at the time.

Priceless
26-03-18, 11:28 AM
And why do you think Spike's speaking the truth, or a whiff of truth, or however you want to interpret it? To hurt her. So, I mean, even if you think that isn't manipulative, at the very least, yeah, it comes from evil intent. Spike enjoys seeing Buffy in pain ("And it'll make her miserable and I never get tired of that") so he says something that will deliberately hurt her. I think POTN calls it 'manipulative' because he believes Spike does it to stir the pot, to create discord and uncertainty, and to make Buffy doubt herself and Riley. There doesn't really have to be a grand scheme or purpose behind it other than that Spike likes to shit-stir. Being manipulative doesn't mean having to be as diabolic as I think you're interpreting it as being.


The use of the word 'manipulative' is giving Spike too much power in this scene. He has absolutely no power at all, that's his lot in S4, and to accuse him of a deliberate manipulation and using a 'whiff of truth' makes him seem that he actually has any power over Buffy and that he's also lying to play on that power. For me, that goes against everything I think of Spike in this season. Yes this might be woobie town because I do pity him here :D I pity him because POTN is accusing him of something the writers appear to be denying throughout the season.

The words POTN uses are important and the word 'manipulate' has all sorts of connotations that I simply do not agree with. He's misread (imo of course) Spike's purpose in this season. Here we have a vampire who has been castrated, against his will. He can't feed or hurt humans. His purpose in life is gone. He is now less than nothing, he is powerless, reliant only on the charity of others. (Yep, I'm very very woobie lol) Spike cannot manipulate Buffy because he has no power to do that, they don't give him the power to do that, and any power he has is only through them.

POTN usually chooses his words very well, and I agree wtih a lot of things he says. But here he's got it wrong, there is no manipulation, because to manipulate you first have to have power over someone, and Spike has no power. He is also not lying, or using a 'whiff of truth' - for Spike this is the whole truth as he sees it, and I happen to agree with him.


And yeah, I actually think Buffy does have pretty good taste in men. I mean, I'd happily sleep with Angel, Riley and Spike

Me too, but would you really want to spend the rest of your days with them? *shudders :D (of course future Spike is a different matter lol)

vampmogs
26-03-18, 12:17 PM
The use of the word 'manipulative' is giving Spike too much power in this scene. He has absolutely no power at all, that's his lot in S4, and to accuse him of a deliberate manipulation and using a 'whiff of truth' makes him seem that he actually has any power over Buffy and that he's also lying to play on that power. For me, that goes against everything I think of Spike in this season. Yes this might be woobie town because I do pity him here :D I pity him because POTN is accusing him of something the writers appear to be denying throughout the season.

The words POTN uses are important and the word 'manipulate' has all sorts of connotations that I simply do not agree with. He's misread (imo of course) Spike's purpose in this season. Here we have a vampire who has been castrated, against his will. He can't feed or hurt humans. His purpose in life is gone. He is now less than nothing, he is powerless, reliant only on the charity of others. (Yep, I'm very very woobie lol) Spike cannot manipulate Buffy because he has no power to do that, they don't give him the power to do that, and any power he has is only through them.

How do you square any of this with the fact that the entire plot of The Yoko Factor revolves around Spike manipulating all of the Scoobies into turning on each other :headscratch: I mean, Priceless, c'mon, there's an entire episode in S4 about Spike going around and successfully manipulating the characters into breaking up.

We're all entitled our opinions but, like, this is an actual fact. It's literally the plot point of an entire episode;

ADAM
One of the friends from whom you
have so efficiently separated her.

SPIKE
Damn right I did. Should'a seen
'em. They won't be talking to
each other for a long, long -

***

BUFFY
Will - who told you we were
talking behind your back. Specifically?

WILLOW
I - well -
(a little sheepish)
Spike - specifically. But -

BUFFY
(to Xander)
And who told you we thought
you'd be better off joining the army?

XANDER
(embarrassed)
That's not… exactly what he said.
Now Buffy looks to a blustering Giles.

GILES
You know, Spike can be quite
convincing when he -- I'm very stupid.

BUFFY
He played us. He wanted us to
fight. To split us up.


I don't get how it's even up for debate? It's in the official synopsis for the episode - "After joining forces with Adam, Spike drives a wedge between Buffy and her friends." The episode's title is even a reference to this :confused3:

The only power Spike has in S4 is being able to manipulate and hurt the Scoobies through his words. We see it not only in The Yoko Factor but also in Doomed when Spike verbally lashes out at Xander and Willow - "Or you're just the same 10th grade losers you've always been - and she's too much of a softy to cut you loose", and Spike walks away smiling, which, as the Shooting Script so aptly describes, is Spike feeling satisfied after "dolling out the punishment."

Powerless people resort to manipulation all the time. It's a pretty common trope and was even used recently in Marvel's Civil War when Zemo manipulated all of The Avengers into fighting against each other because as he admits, he knew that men far more powerful than him had tried and failed to defeat The Avengers in combat, so he manipulated them into turning on each other instead. In The Yoko Factor Adam explicitly asks Spike how he hopes to hurt The Scoobies when he can't physically harm them and Spike, like Zemo, says "not a blessed thing" because "they're going to do it for [him]"

Priceless
26-03-18, 02:23 PM
The Yoko Factor follows this episode. It's the same as POTN referencing Season 6. Surely the only things you can say about a character upto this point are things you know about him upto this point.

The clue is in the title, it wasn't Yoko that split them apart (or Spike) everything he said was there already. Spike even explains that to Adam. His manipulations meant absolutely nothing. But I would also say he had a purpose in TYF to attempt to manipulate - he wanted his chip removed. What was his end game in Goodbye Iowa? If it's just to have a laugh, then POTN should have said that. I would also say that the things Spike says in TYF are actually the characters real fears, and do not simply have a 'whiff of truth' but were emotionally completely true for each character.

vampmogs
27-03-18, 08:59 AM
The Yoko Factor follows this episode. It's the same as POTN referencing Season 6. Surely the only things you can say about a character upto this point are things you know about him upto this point.

You said;


The use of the word 'manipulative' is giving Spike too much power in this scene. He has absolutely no power at all, that's his lot in S4, and to accuse him of a deliberate manipulation and using a 'whiff of truth' makes him seem that he actually has any power over Buffy and that he's also lying to play on that power. For me, that goes against everything I think of Spike in this season.

The Yoko Factor and Goodbye Iowa both took place in S4. Spike was just as chipped and "powerless" in The Yoko Factor as he was in Goodbye Iowa.


The clue is in the title, it wasn't Yoko that split them apart (or Spike) everything he said was there already.

No, Spike absolutely played a part in splitting them a apart. He "stirred up trouble" even if "trouble was pretty stir-upable" (Primeval). What he did was prey on problems the Scoobies were already having and used them to manipulate the group and split them apart.


His manipulations meant absolutely nothing.

Tell that to Spike;

ADAM
One of the friends from whom you
have so efficiently separated her.

SPIKE
Damn right I did. Should'a seen
'em. They won't be talking to
each other for a long, long -


I would also say that the things Spike says in TYF are actually the characters real fears, and do not simply have a 'whiff of truth' but were emotionally completely true for each character.

Ah, Spike blatantly made up lies. He told Xander that Buffy and Willow were talking about him behind his back and suggested that he should join the army. He told Willow that Buffy and Xander were discussing the "witch thing" (aka her relationship with Tara) and insinuating that they were being judgemental about it. These are blatant lies. Neither of those things ever happened. The fact that they were "emotionally" true but not factually true whatsoever would absolutely mean that what he says only has a "whiff of truth about them." And that's even if I agreed with you that what he's saying is completely "emotionally" true - which it's not. Xander never thought those things about Willow, he didn't even know she was gay. Spike couldn't possibly know if Buffy felt that way about Willow because Buffy hadn't discussed Willow's sexuality in front of Spike or to anyone at all. Spike made the pretty reasonable and generic assumption that someone who is in a gay relationship would have insecurities about what their friends or society felt about their relationship, especially if it they've only shown interest in the opposite sex up until now. So, yeah, Spike's manipulations definitely only have a whiff of truth about them. They're neither emotionally, and certainly not factually, completely true.

Priceless
27-03-18, 09:17 AM
The Yoko Factor was specifically saying that Spike played little or no part in splitting up the Beatles . . . er scoobies. That's the whole point of the episode, that the group were splitting themselves apart, and even if a lot of people wanted to blame Yoko, she had very little to do with it. If you blame Spike for splitting up the scoobies I think you've missed the point of the episode.

I can only go back to my original view that the use of the word 'manipulation' gives Spike a power he simply does not have, not in Goodbye Iowa or The Yoko Factor. The whole season is telling us that Spike has no power. I think what he says about Buffy's love life is true, and not simply a 'whiff of truth.

vampmogs
27-03-18, 10:42 AM
The Yoko Factor was specifically saying that Spike played little or no part in splitting up the Beatles . . . er scoobies.

He instigated the whole thing. He went to Xander and told him a lie, he went to Willow and told her a life, he went to Giles and poured salt into the wound which caused Giles to start drinking, and it all accumulated into an argument. He preyed on the problems they were already having, yes, but he was the instigator of that argument. Again, I will quote from the actual episodes;

ADAM
One of the friends from whom you
have so efficiently separated her.

SPIKE
Damn right I did. Should'a seen
'em. They won't be talking to
each other for a long, long -

***

BUFFY
Will - who told you we were
talking behind your back. Specifically?

WILLOW
I - well -
(a little sheepish)
Spike - specifically. But -

BUFFY
(to Xander)
And who told you we thought
you'd be better off joining the army?

XANDER
(embarrassed)
That's not… exactly what he said.
Now Buffy looks to a blustering Giles.

GILES
You know, Spike can be quite
convincing when he -- I'm very stupid.

BUFFY
He played us. He wanted us to
fight. To split us up.


To say he played "no part" in it (seriously wtf) is just 100% factually wrong.


If you blame Spike for splitting up the scoobies I think you've missed the point of the episode.

And I think you've missed entire scenes of the episode. That Spike stirred up trouble is an undeniable fact.

I think I need to just bow out of this discussion. I get that we all have our favourites but I think it's impossible to have a discussion when denying plot points of the episodes. I can understand that people have different interpretations of the characters, even if I really don't understand them, but I draw the line at denying actual factual events.

Priceless
27-03-18, 10:55 AM
But don't you think those ideas where there anyway? That's why the title was The Yoko Factor, in that Yoko wasn't a factor, just like Spike. He uses that metaphor when explaining Yoko to Adam. Personally that's what I took away from the episode, that Spike gave their fears a language, but the fears were there and would have split the group apart anyway.

vampmogs
27-03-18, 11:16 AM
I have acknowledged repeatedly that Spike preyed on the Scoobies real feelings. I have even quoted the moment in Primeval when Willow states that Spike "stirred up trouble" and Buffy says that she thinks "trouble was pretty stir-upable." I am not denying that Spike exploited growing tensions within the group. He absolutely did. But that doesn't mean that he didn't manipulate the Scoobies by lying to them, that he didn't make up stories to turn them against each other, or that he wasn't the instigator and played a significant role in why they fought. They literally fight over things that Spike claimed they said;

XANDER
Right. I'm so good at it you
might have to ship me off to the
army to get me out of the way.

BUFFY
The army?

XANDER
You didn't know I knew about that,
did you? You two talking about me
behind my back.

So how can you say that Spike played no part in causing that argument?

Spike manipulated the Scoobies by exploiting growing tensions within the group. He made up lies designed specifically to anger the Scoobies by targeting their insecurities or resentments (like Xander feeling left behind by Buffy and Willow, or Giles feeling disrespected and unwanted or Willow feeling insecure about her relationship with Tara) and made them turn on each other. Yes, those tensions in the group already existed. Yes, those insecurities were already there. And yes, it's likely that at some point they would spill over into problems between the group. But no, if Spike hadn't went to all of them individually and planted fake stories to make them angry towards each other then it wouldn't have erupted so cataclysmically into the perfect storm just as Spike had intended for it to. Xander wouldn't have been seething over his friends talking about him behind his back, Willow wouldn't have been seething over her friends talking behind her back, and Giles wouldn't have been blind drunk bitter over Buffy not needing him anymore. He manipulated them with, yep, whiffs of truths and lies designed to push all the right buttons. The fact that his lies were designed to perfectly target their insecurities is cunning and smart but they were still lies nonetheless. So, yes, Spike is more than capable of manipulation and he proved that here.

Priceless
27-03-18, 11:44 AM
You are right, he did manipulate them in The Yoko Factor, and play on their feelings. But he did not manipulate them by commenting on Buffy's love life in Goodbye Iowa because he was simply passing judgement. It wasn't a manipulation because it had no greater aim. POTN chose the wrong word. Nor was it a 'whiff of the truth', it was the truth, or Spike's truth, and one I agree with, Buffy did have terrible taste in men.

Silver1
28-03-18, 10:20 AM
Spike nearly always manipulates with his words. He's a past master of it. Doesn't mean that there's not an edge of truth in it though. For me there's no shame in admitting that as he's a vampire for gods sake. A vampire that voluntarily sought the path of redemption.

And to be good you have to see how far he's come or It wouldn't be much of an achievement now would it. ;)

Priceless
30-03-18, 10:25 AM
Buffering The Podcast has an Angel spinoff called Angel On Top.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYmnS_JVQAA8WVp.jpg

flow
04-04-18, 04:03 PM
Lani Diane Rich (Chipperish Media) has aired the video podcast for Dirty Girls.

She is bashing Xander a lot. I am afraid, Sosa Lola wouldn`t like that episode. But she is also bashing Joss Whedon and blaming him for Xanders pillow fight dream. Also, she compares Faith Lehane to Emma Woodhose, which is - I think - very innovative.

TriBel, she stated in her last episode for Lies My Parents Told Me, that Spikes`s mother never loved him. I`d love to hear your thoughts on that.

flow

Silver1
05-04-18, 11:03 AM
Lani Diane Rich (Chipperish Media) has aired the video podcast for Dirty Girls.

She is bashing Xander a lot. I am afraid, Sosa Lola wouldn`t like that episode. But she is also bashing Joss Whedon and blaming him for Xanders pillow fight dream. Also, she compares Faith Lehane to Emma Woodhose, which is - I think - very innovative.

TriBel, she stated in her last episode for Lies My Parents Told Me, that Spikes`s mother never loved him. I`d love to hear your thoughts on that.

flow

Oh lord, these people are far too precious for this show.......:lol:

Sosa lola
06-04-18, 06:33 AM
Lani Diane Rich (Chipperish Media) has aired the video podcast for Dirty Girls.

She is bashing Xander a lot. I am afraid, Sosa Lola wouldn`t like that episode. But she is also bashing Joss Whedon and blaming him for Xanders pillow fight dream. Also, she compares Faith Lehane to Emma Woodhose, which is - I think - very innovative.

TriBel, she stated in her last episode for Lies My Parents Told Me, that Spikes`s mother never loved him. I`d love to hear your thoughts on that.

flow

It annoys me when they are bashing him for his dreams. It's a dream. Did he act on it? Did he tell the potentials to have pillow fights in his apartment? No.

At least thank him for taking some of those potentials off Buffy's back and housing them. That's a good friend.

bespangled
06-04-18, 08:49 AM
It annoys me when they are bashing him for his dreams. It's a dream. Did he act on it? Did he tell the potentials to have pillow fights in his apartment? No.

At least thank him for taking some of those potentials off Buffy's back and housing them. That's a good friend.

I keep telling you to listen to Chosen (https://btvsmmpnetwork.wordpress.com/). They actually like Xander. They have a final moment to call out the character who did the most for the others in some way, and they have called out Xander for good stuff multiple times. It's very refreshing.

TriBel
06-04-18, 10:22 AM
Lani Diane Rich (Chipperish Media) has aired the video podcast for Dirty Girls.

She is bashing Xander a lot. I am afraid, Sosa Lola wouldn`t like that episode. But she is also bashing Joss Whedon and blaming him for Xanders pillow fight dream. Also, she compares Faith Lehane to Emma Woodhose, which is - I think - very innovative.

TriBel, she stated in her last episode for Lies My Parents Told Me, that Spikes`s mother never loved him. I`d love to hear your thoughts on that.

flow

Flow - just seen this - I'll get back to you!

@ Sosa Lola


It annoys me when they are bashing him for his dreams. It's a dream. Did he act on it? Did he tell the potentials to have pillow fights in his apartment? No. At least thank him for taking some of those potentials off Buffy's back and housing them. That's a good friend.

I wish you could see S7 through my eyes. :p I don't usually like/dislike characters and I've never disliked Xander but I think he's wonderful in S7 and absolutely central to what's happening. :hug: Listen to bespangled!

Sosa lola
06-04-18, 10:49 AM
I keep telling you to listen to Chosen (https://btvsmmpnetwork.wordpress.com/). They actually like Xander. They have a final moment to call out the character who did the most for the others in some way, and they have called out Xander for good stuff multiple times. It's very refreshing.

I will! I will! :D I don't listen to a lot of podcasts but I'm gonna listen to Welcome to the Hellmouth today.

Sosa lola
06-04-18, 10:51 AM
I wish you could see S7 through my eyes. :p I don't usually like/dislike characters and I've never disliked Xander but I think he's wonderful in S7 and absolutely central to what's happening. :hug: Listen to bespangled!

I wouldn't say he was central, but I do wish I can see S7 through your eyes. I really dislike that season from the middle to the end, the first episodes were so promising it hurts.

bespangled
06-04-18, 11:07 AM
I will! I will! :D I don't listen to a lot of podcasts but I'm gonna listen to Welcome to the Hellmouth today.

You will be happier with Chosen...but do what you think is best. My ego isn't involved...:sadwalk:

Priceless
06-04-18, 03:20 PM
I will! I will! :D I don't listen to a lot of podcasts but I'm gonna listen to Welcome to the Hellmouth today.

I have to agree with bespangled, Chosen is a good podcast. One of the women is a newbie and it's great to listen to her opinions changing and the shock when something happens she wasn't expecting.

flow
07-04-18, 12:57 PM
After Show Reacts has aired the video for Something Blue on YouTube. You just have to watch her reaction to Spike`s and Buffy`s Engagement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UM_WhAbOrM

If you don`t want to watch the whole video, the part about Spike`s and Buffy`s engagement starts at 9:36.

She is doing reaction videos for Angel as well and she has just before this episode watches I Will Remember You. And she is telling us, how that episode has re-ignited her Bangel-love and how boring Riley is and....then Spike and Buffy happen. Just watch. It is awesome.

flow

TriBel
07-04-18, 01:13 PM
I wouldn't say he was central, but I do wish I can see S7 through your eyes. I really dislike that season from the middle to the end, the first episodes were so promising it hurts.

Look at Lessons - the opening scene is Istanbul. Istanbul is always a metaphor for division and bridging (it's divided by the Bosporus - Europe meets Asia; West meets East; Old meets...err...even older (America as the new world buggers up the metaphor!). I initially thought Spike might be the bridge - in one sense he is but in another he isn't. Xander might be the bridge, he might be the one who's building the bridge; he might be the first one across it (I'm not sure). Also, stop criticizing Xander for mending windows. It's a season that's all about the ocular. Mending windows is important - as is boarding them up! :D

Silver1
07-04-18, 01:28 PM
I wouldn't say he was central, but I do wish I can see S7 through your eyes. I really dislike that season from the middle to the end, the first episodes were so promising it hurts.

Yeah, I think that after 'conversations with Dead people' the series just disintegrates for me. Such a shame.

*shakes fist Sheldon Big Bang style* Whedon!!!!!!!!!

Priceless
07-04-18, 02:19 PM
After Show Reacts has aired the video for Something Blue on YouTube. You just have to watch her reaction to Spike`s and Buffy`s Engagement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UM_WhAbOrM

If you don`t want to watch the whole video, the part about Spike`s and Buffy`s engagement starts at 9:36.

She is doing reaction videos for Angel as well and she has just before this episode watches I Will Remember You. And she is telling us, how that episode has re-ignited her Bangel-love and how boring Riley is and....then Spike and Buffy happen. Just watch. It is awesome.

flow

I thought it was so good flow, I've posted it in the Fan Video Thread. I love that she is so shocked, she has to rewind and watch the engagement twice, and the way she says Spuffy is something she didn't know she wanted, but she's totally on board. :D

Silver1
08-04-18, 08:15 AM
If she can shut enough long enough about Angel of course. :roll:

Priceless
08-04-18, 10:33 AM
If she can shut enough long enough about Angel of course. :roll:

flow had warned me she was a Bangel fan, which is another reason I hadn't watched her videos before. I'm hoping she'll grow out of that. By the time she get's to 'I know I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man', she'll be head over heels for Spuffy :D

Silver1
08-04-18, 10:35 AM
Here's hoping......:lol:

flow
08-04-18, 10:36 AM
I am just not sure, how she will cope with Seeing Red......

flow

Silver1
08-04-18, 10:40 AM
Oh I suspect they'll be a fake meltdown and overwrought scorn to do with how anti women it all is and maybe the extra bonus of a anti Whedon rant. I just don't know. :roll:

Seen it all before sadly.

Priceless
08-04-18, 11:43 AM
Oh I suspect they'll be a fake meltdown and overwrought scorn to do with how anti women it all is and maybe the extra bonus of a anti Whedon rant. I just don't know. :roll:

Seen it all before sadly.

What a cynic :lol:

Silver1
08-04-18, 11:45 AM
Nah, been there, seen that, so just realistic is all. :roll:

vampmogs
08-04-18, 01:53 PM
Do you guys really not watch videos if the person is a Buffy/Angel fan? I'm sorry but that just seems really close minded to me and honestly just makes me glad I'm not a shipper. I've watched all her videos and so far it seems she has enjoyed the series as I'm sure the writers had intended for her to - which includes enjoying Buffy/Angel which was, after all, the main relationship thus far in the series. It's not something she needs to "grow out of" (that comes across as pretty condescending, by the way) and it certainly isn't the only thing she enjoys about the series or is passionate about. She's a huge Spike fan, for one thing, and seems really open minded about all possible directions the show could go in.

I really don't get where this animosity is coming from towards her. As far as reaction videos go, hers have all been really harmless and inoffensive. She seems to have really enjoyed the series up until this point, she hasn't bashed any characters that I can think of, and she's certainly not an obsessive shipper - at least not more so than a lot of the people posting on here. She's done nothing to warrant the bitterness.

Silver1
08-04-18, 01:59 PM
I don't care whet she wants to ship, my beef with her is her overly childlike reactions and seeming inability to let a story play out properly before jumping to conclusions. If she is indeed 12 then I retract my opinion. :lol:

But as I said over reacting to stuff is a 'done' thing on youtube these days. If I want complex I'd go to Passion of the Nerd.

Priceless
08-04-18, 02:07 PM
Do you guys really not watch videos if the person is a Buffy/Angel fan? I'm sorry but that just seems really close minded to me and honestly just makes me glad I'm not a shipper. I've watched all her videos and so far it seems she has enjoyed the series as I'm sure the writers had intended for her to - which includes enjoying Buffy/Angel which was, after all, the main relationship thus far in the series. It's not something she needs to "grow out of" (that comes across as pretty condescending, by the way) and it certainly isn't the only thing she enjoys about the series or is passionate about. She's a huge Spike fan, for one thing, and seems really open minded about all possible directions the show could go in.

I really don't get where this animosity is coming from towards her. As far as reaction videos go, hers have all been really harmless and inoffensive. She seems to have really enjoyed the series up until this point, she hasn't bashed any characters that I can think of, and she's certainly not an obsessive shipper - at least not more so than a lot of the people posting on here. She's done nothing to warrant the bitterness.

Apologies for appearing condescending, it was meant to be a flippant joke, because we'd been saying we don't know how old she is. I admit my humour can be a bit opaque at times. I also mentioned in an earlier post that I don't watch ANY 'reaction' videos because I don't usually believe the reactioner has no prior knowledge.

I am a Spuffy shipper, but I liked Bangel well enough early on and the reactioners ship choice wouldn't put me off watching. I follow POTN, who doesn't appear to be any kind of shipper and not a particular fan of Spike above any other character. I follow idkmybffjill730, a Buffy comic reviewer, but is in no way a Spuffy shipper. It's not about the ship, it's about the validity of the reaction that makes me wary, I was just trying to be amusing with my comments.

I thought her reaction's to Something Blue were so believable and sweet and funny that I actually posted the video on this site, so I really don't have any animosity towards her at all, and certainly no bitterness about her (or anyone elses) shipping choices

Silver1
08-04-18, 02:10 PM
Well I took it that you were joking....:lol:

vampmogs
08-04-18, 02:10 PM
When has she failed to let a story play out before jumping to conclusions? I mean, she's a reactor, her entire audience is wanting to see her be expressive and react to the story as it plays out. It would kind of defeat the purpose if she was barely reactive and didn't form opinions or have reactions to things until the story had played out. But I can't recall her ever judging a story prematurely, at least not in a negative way, other than perhaps Buffy/Riley, and she's actually far more thoughtful and measured in her response to them then some fans are even now who have seen the show for years.

There's no point in comparing her to Passion of the Nerd. He's a fan who has watched the show repeatedly throughout the years and is analysing the show after seeing it countless times. After Show Reactions is reacting to the series for the very first time and couldn't possibly be forming the same kind of complex thoughts that Passion of the Nerd does. He's had 2 decades to settle into his opinions and think about the show and he has the benefit of knowing how the story ends which informs his POV of the show overall.

Silver1
08-04-18, 02:15 PM
Look I think I've explained my 'beef' with her well enough without going over it yet again. Okay?

I'm sure this girl will grow up and be wonderful, but as I've said a hundred times now other peoples millage may vary. Other people may find her endearing, I find her irritating. Whats the problem with that? You're not related are you? :lol:

vampmogs
08-04-18, 02:29 PM
You haven't explained anything. You've said she has an "inability to let the story play out", I asked how, and you can't give me an answer. I mean, it's obviously a generational thing, you've admitted you have difficulties relating to today's "youth" and that's fine, it's inevitable at your age, but for the record, no, you really haven't explained yourself at all.

Priceless
08-04-18, 02:30 PM
There's no point in comparing her to Passion of the Nerd. He's a fan who has watched the show repeatedly throughout the years and is analysing the show after seeing it countless times. After Show Reactions is reacting to the series for the very first time and couldn't possibly be forming the same kind of complex thoughts that Passion of the Nerd does. He's had 2 decades to settle into his opinions and think about the show and he has the benefit of knowing how the story ends which informs his POV of the show overall.


I wasn't comparing her to POTN, I was just trying to persuade you that I am capable of listening to everyone's viewpoints without becoming rabid about their shipping choice (or lack thereof) I listen to tons of podcasts, and a lot of those podcasters are not Spike/Spuffy fans at all, but it doesn't stop me listening.

I agree, the more you watch, the more your opinions change. But I do think opinions can be as deep and meaningful on first watch as on 27th watch, depending on what knowledge you're bringing to the table.

Silver1
08-04-18, 02:35 PM
You haven't explained anything. You've said she has an "inability to let the story play out", I asked how, and you can't give me an answer. I mean, it's obviously a generational thing, you've admitted you have difficulties relating to today's "youth" and that's fine, it's inevitable at your age, but for the record, no, you really haven't explained yourself at all.

Please just let it go. I explained her stopping the video now and again, pulling faces and saying "I don't like this" and why are they doing that?" If she just watched the damn thing she'd find out.

And for the record I don't have to explain anything. If you want to turn my (imo) legitimate opinions into a big fight please take it elsewhere. I've had it.

- - - Updated - - -


I wasn't comparing her to POTN, I was just trying to persuade you that I am capable of listening to everyone's viewpoints without becoming rabid about their shipping choice (or lack thereof) I listen to tons of podcasts, and a lot of those podcasters are not Spike/Spuffy fans at all, but it doesn't stop me listening.

I agree, the more you watch, the more your opinions change. But I do think opinions can be as deep and meaningful on first watch as on 27th watch, depending on what knowledge you're bringing to the table.

It's okay Vampmogs is aiming it all at me. :roll:

vampmogs
08-04-18, 02:44 PM
I never said you had to explain anything. I asked you a question because this is a discussion board after all and I was confused by your 'legitimate' opinions. If it's perfectly ok for you to have a 'beef' with a teenage girl and criticise her on here then I fail to see why it was out of line for me to ask why you feel that way. But, yeah, we'll leave it.



It's okay Vampmogs is aiming it all at me. :roll:

Yep that was aimed at you.

Silver1
08-04-18, 02:51 PM
Look imo unless she's relative of yours I don't think she needs defending. When people upload to youtube they expect to have people disagree with them on there, and so me pointing out a few 'issues' I have with her 'critiques' far away on another site she knows nothing about is just nothing in the grand scheme of things imo.

vampmogs
08-04-18, 02:57 PM
And when you post things on a discussion board you can expect to have people disagree with you as well. You seem to think her videos are fair game to criticise and disagree with (including making comments about her personally) but your opinions, for whatever reason, are off limits. I don't need to be related to her to tell you why I think your comments are unjustified - I just need to have an opinion, like you. So if you want to leave it, as I said, we'll just leave it.

Silver1
08-04-18, 03:08 PM
I'm not saying my comments are off limits, just I'm not going to respond to anymore queries. :roll:

And as I said when you shove stuff on youtube you expect some to criticize. It's the nature of the beast and I'm sure when looking at her channel and the huge mount of shows she's done reactions for she's more then aware of that.

*eta* Well according to a poster on Buffy boards she's 22 years old.

flow
08-04-18, 06:39 PM
Do you guys really not watch videos if the person is a Buffy/Angel fan? I'm sorry but that just seems really close minded to me and honestly just makes me glad I'm not a shipper. I've watched all her videos and so far it seems she has enjoyed the series as I'm sure the writers had intended for her to - which includes enjoying Buffy/Angel which was, after all, the main relationship thus far in the series. It's not something she needs to "grow out of" (that comes across as pretty condescending, by the way) and it certainly isn't the only thing she enjoys about the series or is passionate about. She's a huge Spike fan, for one thing, and seems really open minded about all possible directions the show could go in.

I really don't get where this animosity is coming from towards her. As far as reaction videos go, hers have all been really harmless and inoffensive. She seems to have really enjoyed the series up until this point, she hasn't bashed any characters that I can think of, and she's certainly not an obsessive shipper - at least not more so than a lot of the people posting on here. She's done nothing to warrant the bitterness.

I am sorry to have to say, that I absolutely do not understand where this is coming from.

I have more than once linked her videos and/or referred to her YouTube channel. I have always made it very clear, that I believe, her reactions to be genuine. I have also always made it very clear, that I enjoy her videos a lot.

Yes I am a shipper. I am not ashamed to say it. I ship Spuffy. I know, that she ships Bangel - or at least has done it so far. That has in absolutely no way diminished my pleasure in watching her reaction videos. I am perfectly able, to aprecciate every other ship and to respect every other shipper. And I am also perfectly capable of understanding, that the show never really was about who Buffy is dating.

Silver has voiced the opinion, that the reaction might not be as genuine, as I believe it to be. That is a valid opinion and it is not the first time I have heard it. Youtube channels can be a way to fame and/or fortune. Let`s not be naive. Where there is money, there will be people, who will find a way, to milk the cow.

I you publish with reaction videos about a show, that as been discussed for more than twenty years now, you might be aware, that you are playing with the fire. If the harshest comment, she gets, is "let the story play out", she can consider herself to be lucky. I can see no bitterness in that comment.

flow

bespangled
08-04-18, 11:26 PM
How can reactions be natural and genuine when you know you are reacting for an audience. It's performance art - which is fine. I watched most of her video and it was nice enough but it's also pumped up for an audience. That's the nature of any reaction video - watch me react!

Silver1
09-04-18, 12:01 AM
Exactly. :)

Priceless
11-04-18, 10:40 PM
For those of you who watch reaction videos, has anyone seen Fan Theory? The reactioners are Kyle and Lauren. I think Kyle is a fan and Lauren's never seen Buffy before. I've watched a couple of their videos (I think they're only upto S1 Ep7) and they seem very believable and not at all over the top. Just thought I'd mention it, if anyone wanted to check them out.

Silver1
11-04-18, 11:02 PM
Have you a link?

Priceless
11-04-18, 11:11 PM
I do . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyqZa6Sdnnw&list=PL6-OiyTP7uYsnhpWsC3R8rKZhkIq0OAz_

This is the first episode . . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyqZa6Sdnnw&list=PL6-OiyTP7uYsnhpWsC3R8rKZhkIq0OAz_

Silver1
11-04-18, 11:51 PM
Aww he's so proud when talking about the series. Like a proud parent. :D

Priceless
12-04-18, 08:21 AM
Aww he's so proud when talking about the series. Like a proud parent. :D

Yeah he's desperate for Lauren to like the show. But don't we all want our friends to love the shows we introduce them to

Silver1
12-04-18, 01:35 PM
I'm not yet totally sold that she likes it, or that maybe she's just being kind to him. :lol: But It is early days and I don't think season one truly shows the show at It's best.

By the way 'Buffy Virgin' have uploaded their rambling review of Season 3's episode 'Choices'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w88nJ-CDpKA&t=511s

And Slayerfest98 has added their (also rambling) review of season 4's 'Where the wild things are"

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-56-poltergasm

Priceless
12-04-18, 02:04 PM
Thanks Silver1, I listen to both of those now. Have you heard of J&L Watches podcast? They've reviewed S1 and are on Ep 3 of S2 and have reviewed Dollhouse S1 inbetween. I've not listened to them, but I've added them to my podcast list, just wondered if you or anyone had listened to them?

Watching S1 cold is a bit of a chore and I don't think Lauren really understands why Kyle loves it yet. She probably thinks he's crazy or she's missing something :)

Silver1
12-04-18, 02:15 PM
Not yet know, but I hope to. It's just the early seasons I find difficult to get through. Dollhouse personally I cannot stand. :(

It gave off bad vibe's then and since the whole Whedon thing, well, thats just made it worse.

Priceless
12-04-18, 02:25 PM
I really disliked Dollhouse. I know lots of people love it, but I found the first four or five episodes were so bad or just so gross, that I couldn't get on board with it.

Silver1
12-04-18, 02:31 PM
Yeah the whole thing came across at the time as damn dodgey and as I said not helped by the whole Wheodon thing later down the line.

bespangled
13-04-18, 02:54 AM
I love Eliza Dushku, but she can't carry an entire series.

I love:
Slayerfest98 - pretty much ll gay men talking about Buffy, several of whom have experience in the business
The Sunnydale Stacks - closest thing to Dusted with Loni that I have found. They clearly have so much fun

Buffy Virgin is fun, as is Revisiting Sunnydale.

Priceless
13-04-18, 09:46 AM
I gave up on The Sunnydale Stacks because they seemed so negative and enjoyed pulling every episode apart. I never got the sense that they actually loved the show, just that they wanted to do a podcast and picked BTVS to do it about. You can be critical of this show, but only if you've proved your love for it in the first place, or I will not listen to your podcast :p

Gave up on J&L Watches after two eps. It's just two people who are watching an ep and having drinking games and chatting through it.

Just started listening to Fire Bad, Tree Pretty, who have only done 5 episodes, but so far so good.

bespangled
14-04-18, 08:33 AM
Tiny Fences is actually gonna do a binge rewatch because their newbie wants to see watch she thinks of the show now that she has seen it. This was an interesting season because she was so angry that anyone could ship Spuffy in season 6 - and became a Spuffy shipper in season 7. They just finished their rewatch, and are going to do season 5 Angel. Then the binge will begin. This should be fun!

Priceless
14-04-18, 01:54 PM
Tiny Fences is actually gonna do a binge rewatch because their newbie wants to see watch she thinks of the show now that she has seen it. This was an interesting season because she was so angry that anyone could ship Spuffy in season 6 - and became a Spuffy shipper in season 7. They just finished their rewatch, and are going to do season 5 Angel. Then the binge will begin. This should be fun!

I liked Tiny Fences but the newbie used to annoy me, as she couldn't remember what happened from one episode to the next and the fan had to keep explaining things over and over to her. I thought she wasn't really that interested to be honest through most of the seasons. I kept listening because I liked them both as people, they seemed nice. Hopefully now the ex-newbie will understand a lot more with the re-watch and pick up on all those things she kept missing first time around.

I'm maybe being too hard on her, because it's hard to remember what it's like watching the show for the first time, as we've all watched it so much.

bespangled
14-04-18, 10:38 PM
I liked Tiny Fences but the newbie used to annoy me, as she couldn't remember what happened from one episode to the next and the fan had to keep explaining things over and over to her. I thought she wasn't really that interested to be honest through most of the seasons. I kept listening because I liked them both as people, they seemed nice. Hopefully now the ex-newbie will understand a lot more with the re-watch and pick up on all those things she kept missing first time around.

I'm maybe being too hard on her, because it's hard to remember what it's like watching the show for the first time, as we've all watched it so much.

She's the one who pushed for the rewatch, so that's a good sign. In fact, she said she can't wait to watch Restless now that she has some idea of what it all means.

flow
15-04-18, 10:32 AM
Unfortunately After Show Reactions seems to be having copyright issues now. Her most recent videos for Buffy have been blocked. I remember POTN having issues like that before. He stopped airing new videos for months, but luckily he seems to have solved the matter now.

flow

Priceless
18-04-18, 08:11 AM
Don't know if anyone listens to Mutant Frenemy, a Whedonverse podcast from the UK, but their most recent episode has the Mark Sheppard press panel from MCM Birmingham. It's really interesting listening to him talk as he's been in everything I'd recommend it :D

flow
24-04-18, 07:41 PM
In This Year`s Girl POTN is having quite a go at Riley. "Whitebread with N-Sync haircut" :lol:

But he has announced, that he won`t spare Spike either. He called it the "Hashtag Spike Problem", with which he will deal later.

flow

Silver1
24-04-18, 07:45 PM
Yeah I posted up the video on the Buffy/Angel video thread. :D

Priceless
24-04-18, 07:45 PM
In This Year`s Girl POTN is having quite a go at Riley. "Whitebread with N-Sync haircut" :lol:

But he has announced, that he won`t spare Spike either. He called it the "Hashtah Spike Problem", with which he will deal later.

flow

He considers Spike being too charismatic a 'problem' . . .

bespangled
25-04-18, 12:18 AM
I just got rid of the Once More With Felling podcast after a rant by one of them complaining that being under a spell does not mean Joyce has no responsibility for trying to kill Buffy....as well as lots of discussion on how Breaking Bad was so much better. Why do a podcast of a show you don't really like?

Silver1
25-04-18, 05:59 AM
Hmm, to the best of my knowledge those two shows are really alike, so not a good comparison imo.

And yes, sounded like they just wanted to score points and sound clever.

Priceless
25-04-18, 09:17 AM
I've stopped listening to Get Slayed. Their reviews of Revelations and Lovers Walk was just annoying. I really like those episodes, and I don't mind people not liking them, but they just ignored so much of what happens so it fitted with their views :down:

flow
25-04-18, 12:02 PM
He considers Spike being too charismatic a 'problem' . . .

I think, he believes JM being too charismatic to be the problem. I wouldn`t be surprised, if he is going to make the point, that JM`s acting made us like Spike more than he deserved and was intended by the writers and that we got distracted from the evilness of Spike.

At least that`ll be his POV for season6. I am not sure, how he is going to judge Spike in season7. But that`s still a looooong way to go ;-) I think, he is publishing a review every two weeks now, so we have to wait for about two more weeks, til he has the review for Chosen up ;-)

flow

Priceless
25-04-18, 12:22 PM
I think, he believes JM being too charismatic to be the problem. I wouldn`t be surprised, if he is going to make the point, that JM`s acting made us like Spike more than he deserved and was intended by the writers and that we got distracted from the evilness of Spike.

At least that`ll be his POV for season6. I am not sure, how he is going to judge Spike in season7. But that`s still a looooong way to go ;-) I think, he is publishing a review every two weeks now, so we have to wait for about two more weeks, til he has the review for Chosen up ;-)

flow

I think you are probably right :D I'm still convinced he'll like Spuffy in Season 7, can't wait till he gets there

flow
25-04-18, 01:34 PM
Ehmmmmm - we will have to wait for two more years not two more weeks. Sorry, I was obviously typing, not thinking.

flow

Silver1
28-04-18, 09:04 PM
Passion of the Nerd is live now doing an overview on 'When she was bad' and 'school hard'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4miV7cYGV3w

Sosa lola
29-04-18, 12:35 PM
Passion of the Nerd is live now doing an overview on 'When she was bad' and 'school hard'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4miV7cYGV3w

Interesting interview! I enjoyed it a lot. Though the sound is a big unclear.

Silver1
29-04-18, 02:01 PM
Well as you can see It was a live feed and they were having problems with the connections sadly.

I wish he'd say in advance when he's going to do this as more often then not I end up missing them. Managed to fire off a few comments in chat this time though. :lol:

Priceless
02-05-18, 04:36 PM
https://chipperish.com/2018/05/01/still-dead-1-can-you-fly-s1-1-3/

I listened to the first episode of Still Dead, an Angel podcast, and it was really interesting. Lani Diane Rich is just such a great communicator and she doesn't disappoint.

bespangled
03-05-18, 01:22 AM
I love Lani! Thanks for the tip!

I am really enjoying Once More With Commentary! They actually discuss the episodes - long meaty discussion!

Silver1
04-05-18, 12:16 PM
A new video from Passion of the Nerd. I think I'm going to carry on posting these on here as they're more akin to a podcast then a music video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLlBN9_M8cs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLlBN9_M8cs

Silver1
05-05-18, 12:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbdnnux7QTE

Hit the 53.26 min mark to hear the Buffy overview section. I like this lot, I follow their channel on Youtube. A very down to earth British take on things. Does help that It appears one is a Spike/Spuffy fan of course. :lol:

Priceless
05-05-18, 04:47 PM
Great minds Silver 1, I found Off The Shelf Reviews on youtube this morning and was thinking of posting it here.

bespangled
06-05-18, 04:34 AM
Silver1 - those were fantastic - thank you!

Silver1
06-05-18, 10:08 AM
They're great aren't they.

I notice that Passion of the nerd posts on 'the board that shall not be named' which is such a shame. Imo he's going to get a very one sided view of what makes up online fandom with their poison spitting in his ears.

bespangled
06-05-18, 10:21 AM
They're great aren't they.

I notice that Passion of the nerd posts on 'the board that shall not be named' which is such a shame. Imo he's going to get a very one sided view of what makes up online fandom with their poison spitting in his ears.

Yeah - I'll probably give up on him once he gets into the later seasons. Maybe we can tempt him over here?

Silver1
06-05-18, 10:31 AM
I may leave a link to this place over on Youtube. I know he posts on Tumblr so he's after the biggest audience as possible.

I know he tries to be a non shipper and not be bias against individual characters. I just get a bit twitchy when he keeps referring to the 'Spike problem'.

Just aheads up If you subscribe to email notifications from his youtube account you will be sent a link to his live steams, where he discusses with others the series, sometimes whilst editing, which will give you more of an insight into his thought processes when it comes to the Buffy characters/plots.

These are often not made public after the stream ends and often kept unlisted on youtube, so It's better to subscribe for notifications as those emailed links remain active and accessible even after they're been removed from public view.

Silver1
08-05-18, 09:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MrPEKVWEOI

One of them wanted Giles dead? WTF??

Priceless
25-05-18, 09:45 PM
Just saw on twitter a statement from Jenny and Kristin, who do the Buffering podcast. They're splitting up. The podcast will continue and in the statement they say the usual stuff about loving each other as friends but cannot remain married etc. etc. etc. :(

bespangled
25-05-18, 10:01 PM
Just saw on twitter a statement from Jenny and Kristin, who do the Buffering podcast. They're splitting up. The podcast will continue and in the statement they say the usual stuff about loving each other as friends but cannot remain married etc. etc. etc. :(

Dejavu - Dusted....

Priceless
25-05-18, 10:45 PM
Dejavu - Dusted....

That's exactly what I thought. It's the curse of the Buffy podcast. No relationship can survive :D

Sosa lola
26-05-18, 11:32 AM
I just realized my problem with podcasts. I'm not a good listener. I need visuals to stay focused. Some podcasts get lost on the speakers joking around and talking about stuff that are not related to the show. I enjoy Passion of the Nerd and Feminist Review more because of the visuals and their videos are edited to only talk about the show or something related to it.

My preferred reviews, however, are the written ones. I like reading more and it's easier to quote and reference when I'm in an argument.

Priceless
26-05-18, 12:06 PM
If the podcasters start jumping around and joking too much, I switch off. I've stopped listening to some who are just too silly, like J and L Watches - they just turn every episode into a drinking game and that bores me. The podcast I'm enjoying most as the moment is Slayerfest 98, which Silver 1 recommended. The guys are fun, but they did below the surface and even though I don't agree with a lot they say, they are always interesting. But as always, there is the issue of Spike, and they're coming up to Season 5, so if there is a lot of Spike bashing, I won't be able to listen.

Cheese Slices
26-05-18, 12:33 PM
Well, I sure as hell ain't starting a podcast with my husband - it's a curse.

Too bad about Buffering ; I've only listened to one episode so far but it was rather cool; glad that they're still doing it though.

I'll admit I have a bad feeling about POTN post S4/5. I don't mind people having different opinion than mine obviously, but the Spike stuff in the later seasons tend to attract very extreme and black and white views, and I'm not interested in that.

Priceless
26-05-18, 12:41 PM
I'll admit I have a bad feeling about POTN post S4/5. I don't mind people having different opinion than mine obviously, but the Spike stuff in the later seasons tend to attract very extreme and black and white views, and I'm not interested in that.


POTN recently said that Season 6 was his favourite season. So I'm hopeful the Spike-hate will be kept to a minimum.

Sosa lola
26-05-18, 01:24 PM
Did Slayerfest 98 do a recent podcast on Restless? I have heard that and it was very well done, except for the two members who obviously dislike Xander and see anything he says or does as misogynist.

Priceless
26-05-18, 01:35 PM
Did Slayerfest 98 do a recent podcast on Restless? I have heard that and it was very well done, except for the two members who obviously dislike Xander and see anything he says or does as misogynist.

Yes, and yes. Unfortunately Xander does get criticised a lot. I have yet to find a podcast that doesn't criticise Xander, or at least isn't full-on Xander-hate fuelled.

Sosa lola
26-05-18, 01:39 PM
Yes, and yes. Unfortunately Xander does get criticised a lot. I have yet to find a podcast that doesn't criticise Xander, or at least isn't full-on Xander-hate fuelled.

I don't mind criticizing Xander because he is very flawed. It's hard not to criticize him. But Xander in Restless (and S4 in general) is a very sympathetic character. It felt so off seeing them nit-pick every line he says.

Silver1
26-05-18, 02:39 PM
Yeah - I'll probably give up on him once he gets into the later seasons. Maybe we can tempt him over here?


Sadly the only board I've seen him on is the one we all hate. God only knows why. If only he knew how rabid they are on there. :lol:

- - - Updated - - -


If the podcasters start jumping around and joking too much, I switch off. I've stopped listening to some who are just too silly, like J and L Watches - they just turn every episode into a drinking game and that bores me. The podcast I'm enjoying most as the moment is Slayerfest 98, which Silver 1 recommended. The guys are fun, but they did below the surface and even though I don't agree with a lot they say, they are always interesting. But as always, there is the issue of Spike, and they're coming up to Season 5, so if there is a lot of Spike bashing, I won't be able to listen.

I'm afraid I'm finding Slayerfest a bit hit and miss these days. I'm afraid I'm finding their rambling a bit annoying and sometimes they suffer from what a lot of podcasters suffer from and that is a lack of understanding when this show was made and what was then the 'norm' back then. That these characters are from the 90's not 2019!

Priceless
26-05-18, 03:15 PM
Sadly the only board I've seen him on is the one we all hate. God only knows why. If only he knew how rabid they are on there.


I'd love it if he popped over here and took part in some of the discussions. He'd see a different pov and that may make him more aware of what his audience are looking for. Not that I want him to change his opinions to please the audience, just that he understands there are other people than those on that other board.


I'm afraid I'm finding Slayerfest a bit hit and miss these days. I'm afraid I'm finding their rambling a bit annoying and sometimes they suffer from what a lot of podcasters suffer from and that is a lack of understanding when this show was made and what was then the 'norm' back then. That these characters are from the 90's not 2019!


I still enjoy their podcasts, but I agree, they are judging characters from today's perspective, and that's not fair. I would also say some of their guests have odd views and it makes me wonder how much of a fan they really are - are they just pretending to like the show to get on the podcast?

bespangled
26-05-18, 08:14 PM
Yes, and yes. Unfortunately Xander does get criticised a lot. I have yet to find a podcast that doesn't criticise Xander, or at least isn't full-on Xander-hate fuelled.


I still enjoy their podcasts, but I agree, they are judging characters from today's perspective, and that's not fair. I would also say some of their guests have odd views and it makes me wonder how much of a fan they really are - are they just pretending to like the show to get on the podcast?

Chosen seems to avoid both pitfalls. They criticize all the characters - but they really recognize Xander's worth. They also dismiss issues of what would or would not go over today. And there is the Australian and American views.

The one I am thoroughly enjoying is Once More With Commentary. It's very unforced - two people who may not agree but who really remain on topic and enjoy talking through their disagreements. I really enjoy their conversations.

So, if anyone else is on any other board, why not ask potn to check out this one?

Priceless
26-05-18, 08:28 PM
Chosen seems to avoid both pitfalls. They criticize all the characters - but they really recognize Xander's worth. They also dismiss issues of what would or would not go over today. And there is the Australian and American views.

The one I am thoroughly enjoying is Once More With Commentary. It's very unforced - two people who may not agree but who really remain on topic and enjoy talking through their disagreements. I really enjoy their conversations.

So, if anyone else is on any other board, why not ask potn to check out this one?

I really like Chosen, it's fun to hear the newbies ideas of what's going on. But I do think it lacks a bit of depth and analysis. OMW Commentary is a good one that I do enjoy.

Someone could perhaps tweet POTN and tell him about this place . . . ? :)

flow
26-05-18, 08:34 PM
Pricey, you are the one with the Twitter account :thumbup:

flow

Priceless
26-05-18, 08:39 PM
Pricey, you are the one with the Twitter account :thumbup:

flow

Errr . . . I cannot be the only one on this forum with a twitter account. Betta? :D

TriBel
26-05-18, 08:41 PM
Errr . . . I cannot be the only one on this forum with a twitter account. Betta? :D

Foot. In. Mouth. :rotf:

bespangled
26-05-18, 08:57 PM
I am Lisa Simpson on twitter - not that I go there at all

flow
27-05-18, 09:09 PM
Lani Diane Rich published the last video ever for Still Pretty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3Z5R3Av59Y

I am going to shed some tears....

flow

Priceless
27-05-18, 09:13 PM
But she's starting again from the beginning and that makes me very happy :D

flow
27-05-18, 09:39 PM
But not on YouTube! I want videos!

flow

- - - Updated - - -

I also watched After Show Reacts today reacting to "New Moon Rising" on YouTube and she is as hilarious as ever. She said:

"Riley is bad. He is supposed to be a top military guy and he ca`t even sneak Oz out of the Initiative. But credits for trying."

flow

Silver1
30-05-18, 09:11 AM
Buffy Virgin gives their take on Harsh Light of Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTWyvKtsLnQ

Priceless
30-05-18, 06:36 PM
For those of you that love AtS and the character of Wesley in particular, I would highly recommend Still Dead, with the wonderful Lani Diane Rich. I had to ff through their last episode (#5 Heores and Demon Hunters) because their love for Wesley was too much for me :p

DeepBlueJoy
30-05-18, 08:23 PM
I have never listened to a Buffy podcast. What would you recommend to a complete buffy post cast virgin? I am an avid listener of public radio, and so have heard quite a few podcasts, mostly broadcast on my neighborhood NPR affiliate.
Thank you!

Blue

bespangled
31-05-18, 05:33 AM
I have never listened to a Buffy podcast. What would you recommend to a complete buffy post cast virgin? I am an avid listener of public radio, and so have heard quite a few podcasts, mostly broadcast on my neighborhood NPR affiliate.
Thank you!

Blue

Honestly - go for Still Pretty. It's switching over to a podcast starting up May 31st with Welcome To The Hellmouth. Lani is an award winning author and story expert. This episode of of Still Dead - the Angel podcast Priceless just recced - ha a sample of her new partner's insight. This isn't just fangirling - there's real substance. And they love the show - true fans.

Avoid at all costs - Rewatchable. It's poisonous.

Priceless
31-05-18, 11:54 AM
I have never listened to a Buffy podcast. What would you recommend to a complete buffy post cast virgin? I am an avid listener of public radio, and so have heard quite a few podcasts, mostly broadcast on my neighborhood NPR affiliate.
Thank you!

Blue

I'll second bespangled; Still Pretty with Lani Diane Rich is well worth a listen. I also enjoy Slayerfest 98 and Buffering the Vampire. Both are done by gay podcasters, so there is a very open gay bias (Buffering went ott over Fuffy when reviewing Season 3), but both are very entertaining, intelligent and have some real insights into character. (One thing that puts me off about Slayerfest 98 is that one of the podcasters went to Rutgers, which must be a very prestigious university because he mentions it in every episode :lol:)

I thought Re-watchable was ok, but not great, as was Tiny Fences, in which one of the podcasters couldn't remember what happened from one episode to the next and had to have everything recapped for her. Ones to avoid would be The Sunnydale Stacks, J&L Watchers and Get Slayed.

Just noticed a new one pop up on my add - Buffy the Vampire Straya, an Aussie podcast. Anyone heard it?

flow
31-05-18, 03:52 PM
After Show Reacts comment on restless:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oulL8v1AKJs


"What the Hell ... ?"

Just what was thinking :roll:

flow

Silver1
31-05-18, 05:34 PM
Jesus this girl is still just as aggravating! After It's taken her an age to cotton on to the fact this is a dream she's still dribbles on with "Whats that? Why are they doing that?" Through the whole damn thing. Restless is not that hard to grasp surely? Or have the younger generation lost the art of visual interpretation?

As I've said before considering she's watched/reacted to a ton of TV she doesn't seem to understand the language of it, or for that matter how dreams work.

So for me that was absolutely painful viewing I'm afraid. Others obviously find her charming, but to me she just comes across as playing dumb, which I guess she thinks people want.

flow
01-06-18, 08:59 AM
You can rant, all you like, I still adore her :D

flow

Silver1
01-06-18, 09:18 AM
Good for you love. :D

But in all seriousness, what do you think is going on here? Is she (and sorry to be blunt) just a bit dim or just putting on an act? I'm genuinely curious.

flow
01-06-18, 10:50 AM
I actually think, she is neither. I believe her to be very young and maybe a bit immature or you could say not spoiled yet.

She also seems to be a very enthusiastic person. I know, that she is doing two reactions videos a day for seven days a week at the moment. That is a hell lot of time, that goes into watching, editing and uploading. But she is still obviously enjoying it. I have seen other reaction videos, where the vloggers were more or less emotionless. She is very emotional, but if that would be acting, she should be on her way to Hollywood. I believe it to be genuine. Which doesn?t exclude the possibility, that she does know one Thing or another beforehand. But I don`t believe her reaction is scripted.

flow

Silver1
01-06-18, 11:32 AM
My argument is If she's watched THAT much TV she must know the language of it by now, and so I find some of her rather (imo) vacuous commentary a bit puzzling. As to her age I believe she is 22?

Sosa lola
05-06-18, 05:30 PM
I just finished listening to Tiny Fences "Welcome to the Hellmouth". Thanks for the recommendation, bespangled. I like both Amanda and Andrea. I like Amanda's first impressions of the characters. I remember shipping Xillow myself in those five minutes before falling hard for Spander. :lol:

Priceless
05-06-18, 07:15 PM
Those of you that are interested in the Buffyverse comics might like to listen to the Buffy Back Issue Bin podcast who have just interviewed Victor Gischler who wrote Angel & Faith Season 10 and Spike:A Dark Place

https://player.fm/series/buffy-back-issue-bin

bespangled
05-06-18, 10:47 PM
I have fallen in love with Revisiting Sunnydale - two female blerds (black nerds) who adore the show, love Spike, and ship Spuffy.

They do some hilarious riffs on the characters - like the annoying one coming to lead Buffy to the master. Damn, he shows up and Buffy tells him she knows who he is. He's like - girl this is the only thing I do - my whole reason for existing. Been hanging smiling my creepy little smile doin nothing except listening to the big ugly guy with his stinkin old man breath and I finally get a chance to do my thing. I had a speech all ready and you just gonna just cut me off, bitch?!

Great fangirling when Spike appears - ends with you look at that gorgeous face, and girl you are a woman now!

These two are actually worth going back and listening them review episodes you hate.

Silver1
20-06-18, 10:01 AM
Slayerfest98 gives us their take on season 5's Real Me.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-63-are-you-there-buffy-its-me-dawn

*eta* The Xander bashing is really getting on my nerves now. Yeah, we get It already! :lol:

Sosa lola
20-06-18, 10:29 AM
I started listening to it, Silver1, but my God that Xander-bashing was so annoying especially when they started talking about the comics, I couldn't keep on listening.

I'm just gonna stick to Tiny Fences.

Silver1
20-06-18, 10:31 AM
Yeah, I left a message on there saying If you think Xander is the worst example of a 1990's man they're sadly mistaken.

And yeah, their 'style' of presentation and their take on the show is starting to really grate with me.

Sosa lola
20-06-18, 10:43 AM
Yeah, I left a message on there saying If you think Xander is the worst example of a 1990's man they're sadly mistaken.

And yeah, their 'style' of presentation and their take on the show is starting to really grate with me.

Also, if you haven't read the comics don't freaking talk about them! There was this guy who claimed that Buffy said she was in love with Xander her whole life, and when he was corrected by another guy who did read the comics, he said "read between the lines" or something of that effect. What? You haven't read the comics, moron!

Silver1
20-06-18, 10:47 AM
Yeah I find they're sweeping generalisations bloody annoying to be frank. God only know how they're next review is going to shape up considering It's going to be The Replacement.

Silver1
21-06-18, 08:08 PM
Still on that subject, (sorta) they have just published their gay pride special The queerness of Buffy

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/a-pride-special-episode-the-queerness-of-buffy

Priceless
22-06-18, 02:11 PM
You may think Slayerfest 98 has gone downhill, but honestly, it's Shakespearean compared to three podcasts I've tried to listen to today; Buffy Speak in which one girl just kept yawning, Chosen in which they spent half the podcast discussing their living and family arrangements and Fire Bad Tree Pretty in which the most exciting thing the two of them could talk about was Angel's jacket.

Are there no podcasters out there (apart from Lani and thank god for her) who can review Buffy with some depth and meaning? :mad:

Sosa lola
22-06-18, 02:15 PM
I think the worst thing people in podcasts do is talk about themselves and not the material. It happens in a lot of them sadly and it's frustrating.

Priceless
22-06-18, 02:24 PM
I think the worst thing people in podcasts do is talk about themselves and not the material. It happens in a lot of them sadly and it's frustrating.

I don't mind, if they keep it short and use personal information to further our understanding of Buffy, but some of these podcasters just go on and on. :sleeping: They also lack any depth or knowledge. They just repeat what happens in the show, they don't explain why a character would do what they did, or what it means for the overall meaning of the show. At least Slayerfest discuss the deeper meanings/psychology of the show, which I appreciate :D

Cheese Slices
22-06-18, 02:46 PM
I've started listening to Revisiting Sunnydale (mentioned a page ago or so) : I recommend for the flailing and light-hearted bashing, though so far nothing too deep. It's pretty fun though.

Do we know what's up with POTN ? I can't wait for the Who Are You guide.

flow
22-06-18, 02:55 PM
He tweeted, that he will try to complete the video for Who Are You this Weekend. Hopefully it`s up next week :bounce:

flow

bespangled
23-06-18, 03:50 AM
Other than Tiny Fences and Revisiting, I like Once More With Commentary. Again, they don't trash anyone and they disagree with intelligent conversation.

Lani is great. Her co-host trashed Xander in the first ep, and I tweeted her that they have to address his home situation, and they did. Now she talks about the Xander she loves, and the shadow Xander who is a product of his environment. Still Pretty (BTVS) and Still Dead (ATS) are the best podcasts out there.

Sosa lola
26-06-18, 01:58 PM
Lani is great. Her co-host trashed Xander in the first ep, and I tweeted her that they have to address his home situation, and they did. Now she talks about the Xander she loves, and the shadow Xander who is a product of his environment. Still Pretty (BTVS) and Still Dead (ATS) are the best podcasts out there.

I'm actually listening to Still Pretty right now. I think they're going way too deep about things. I don't agree with them about Xander following Buffy being all about him, he clearly followed her and risked his life to save Jesse. (Same with Prophecy Girl when he will risk his life again to save Buffy). Also criticising Xander angry reaction to Jesse's death and complimenting Willow's lack of reaction? That moment was about Xander being upset that his friend was killed, it was out of grief. I much prefer that to Willow's non-reaction.

Cheese Slices
26-06-18, 02:49 PM
I'm actually listening to Still Pretty right now. I think they're going way too deep about things. I don't agree with them about Xander following Buffy being all about him, he clearly followed her and risked his life to save Jesse. (Same with Prophecy Girl when he will risk his life again to save Buffy). Also criticising Xander angry reaction to Jesse's death and complimenting Willow's lack of reaction? That moment was about Xander being upset that his friend was killed, it was out of grief. I much prefer that to Willow's non-reaction.

I recommend you stick with them though : as critical as they can be of Xander, Lani does love him very much and has a lot of good to say about him.

Sosa lola
26-06-18, 03:59 PM
I recommend you stick with them though : as critical as they can be of Xander, Lani does love him very much and has a lot of good to say about him.

I am sticking with them. Despite the extreme criticism of Xander, I actually grew to like both Lani and Noelle - who does admit she's a Xander hater :lol: I love that they don't stray from the show. Also the deep analysis is enjoyable for someone who has been in fandom for almost two decades.

But I wish the episodes were organized in order. I have just finished listening to Never Kill A Boy on the First Date and I can't find The Pack.

Cheese Slices
26-06-18, 05:26 PM
I am sticking with them. Despite the extreme criticism of Xander, I actually grew to like both Lani and Noelle - who does admit she's a Xander hater :lol: I love that they don't stray from the show. Also the deep analysis is enjoyable for someone who has been in fandom for almost two decades.

But I wish the episodes were organized in order. I have just finished listening to Never Kill A Boy on the First Date and I can't find The Pack.

It's not up yet...They release one episode per week, so I guess it'll be available in a a day or two. ;)

Silver1
26-06-18, 07:22 PM
Assume crash positions Sosa Lola. Slayerfest98 talks about season 5 The Replacement

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-64-two-xanders-no-waiting

Sosa lola
26-06-18, 07:34 PM
It's not up yet...They release one episode per week, so I guess it'll be available in a a day or two. ;)

But I saw their podcast for Chosen, unless they are redoing the show again?

Sosa lola
26-06-18, 07:35 PM
Assume crash positions Sosa Lola. Slayerfest98 talks about season 5 The Replacement

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-64-two-xanders-no-waiting

I am dreading it :err:

Silver1
26-06-18, 07:39 PM
So far they're not being that bad.

Sosa lola
26-06-18, 09:03 PM
I liked it. It was actually enjoyable to listen to, though I didn’t understand what one of the women (I don’t know their names) meant about Xander complaining to Willow being a bad thing … I mean, she’s his best friend. Who else could he talk to if not his best friend? I didn’t get what they meant when they discussed that scene. Was Xander doing something wrong talking to Willow about his problems? That’s how it sounded to me.

I get their point about Xander’s episodes being centered on his masculinity issues, which is the point, that’s his BtVS main arc. He starts the show craving traditional gender roles because that’s how he’ll get love and respect, and the show is his journey to realizing that being himself and accepting who he is will guarantee him love and respect from those who matter: his friends. He’s a beta male and it’s okay.

I also remembered our discussion about me not caring so much about the fight scenes, the guy I think his name is Ian feels exactly the same way I do:

“Ahh, it’s an episode of Buffy. She needs to fight. I like in a Buffy episode when we do more of a character work, and the fighting/demon we just need that ‘cause it’s an episode of Buffy but it’s not the point.”

Priceless
01-07-18, 08:43 PM
Slayerfest98 Podcast have just tweeted that they are recording today with Amber Benson. Not sure what the episode is, but I'll definitely be listening. They manage to get the best guests, they had Jane Espenson a few months ago

Sosa lola
01-07-18, 09:35 PM
I'm sure it's Family.

Priceless
01-07-18, 09:37 PM
I'm sure it's Family.

That would make the most sense :)

flow
02-07-18, 08:10 PM
We were talking about After Show Reactions a while ago and were guessing, how old she might be. She just did a Q&A Video and she said, that she is 22 years old.

I am surprised, actually. I thought, she was no older than 16 or maybe 18.

flow

Priceless
03-07-18, 04:26 PM
Is anyone listening to Angel On Top? They've only done three episodes, so I want to give it the benefit of the doubt, but . . . too much chat about themselves, and they sound like this might be the first time they've watched the show. Don't know if it's worth my time.

When they started, they sounded so like Daria, because they do a Daria podcast. But they've calmed that down a bit and sound more themselves, so maybe they'll get better

Silver1
03-07-18, 05:42 PM
Slayerfest98 does seasons 5's Out of my mind

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-65-operation-harmony

*eta* Christ this lot can be irritating!

Priceless
03-07-18, 06:54 PM
Slayerfest 98


@slayerfestx98
8m8 minutes ago
More
We are *beyond* excited to record tonight with Scbooy @carlylane and Spike himself, @JamesMarstersOf!

JM is going to be on Slayerfest98! :D

Silver1
03-07-18, 06:55 PM
Thats should prove interesting considering I always suspect they aren't really interested in his character.

Priceless
03-07-18, 06:58 PM
Thats should prove interesting considering I always suspect they aren't really interested in his character.

They hardly mention Spike and when they do, they're quite dismissive. I hope JM sticks up for Spike if they start being ultra critical

flow
03-07-18, 07:05 PM
Wow, I don`t usually listen to podcasts, but I am excited for this episode. Can you give a shout, when the episode is up?

flow

Silver1
03-07-18, 07:10 PM
They hardly mention Spike and when they do, they're quite dismissive. I hope JM sticks up for Spike if they start being ultra critical

I hope so too. I re-tweeted what they put up saying I hope they have some good questions because I suspect they're not all that invested in his character.

Sosa lola
03-07-18, 07:21 PM
Wow, that's awesome! It's most likely for Fool For Love.

Priceless
03-07-18, 07:31 PM
Wow, I don`t usually listen to podcasts, but I am excited for this episode. Can you give a shout, when the episode is up?

flow

Of course I'll let you know. You'll probably hear it before me as I'm so far behind in my podcast listening :)

Cheese Slices
04-07-18, 08:27 AM
Ugh, how do they do that ? How ??
I also hope they will provide interesting questions and discussions, I've started listening to them but so far I'm a little disappointed by the lack of in-depth discussion.
I'm still super excited though. :bounce:

Priceless
04-07-18, 04:12 PM
This made me laugh . . . c'mon, which one of you is it?? :lol:

Ian Carlos Crawford
@ianxcarlos
21h21 hours ago
There is a person from the UK who leaves negative comments on every @slayerfestx98 thing they comment on and like, should I tell them it’s okay to stop listening?

Sosa lola
04-07-18, 04:38 PM
I am not from the UK. :D

Silver1
04-07-18, 06:19 PM
What comments? :xd

Priceless
04-07-18, 10:26 PM
What comments? :xd

I don't know. I'm guessing that if you listen on i-tunes, you can leave comments for each episode :noidea: I guess this person listens and then criticises. I actually think there are things to criticise, but Ian Carlos Crawford seems not to want to hear the criticisms :D

- - - Updated - - -

When Angel of Top started, a few people gave what I considered constructive criticism and one of the podcasters had a bit of a rant on twitter about how hard life is for podcasters. It was pitiful :D

- - - Updated - - -

I feel the need to add that none of this was me. I have not tweeted Slayerfest98 or Angel on Top (I'm a straight woman and I don't think they'd appreciate my input)

Silver1
04-07-18, 11:01 PM
Well the person leaving the comments (only 3 over god knows how long a period of time) was me. ;)

I read them back and I don't think I was being negative at all. Just trying to correct their observations that they they appear so bloody proud of. But apparently I should have kept that to myself. I think the most 'negative' thing I've said to them was I didn't like the Xander bashing. So. WTF??

https://s33.postimg.cc/vtwitju7z/screenshot_02seww.jpg

https://s33.postimg.cc/fwxqwajnz/screenshot_01err.jpg

Now aren't they a charming little bunch? The comment calling me a' special snowflake' made me laugh particularly hard. They can talk they can't even take the slightest of criticisms. :roll:

Priceless
04-07-18, 11:17 PM
Now aren't they a charming little bunch? The comment calling me a' special snowflake' made me laugh particularly hard. They can talk they can't even take the slightest of criticisms.

Podcasters can be very sensitive creatures who do not like to be disagreed with :D Their fans appear to by sychophantic lemmings who've probably never had an original thought in their lives. They should be careful, because the moment they don't toe the party line, Ian Carlos Crawford will be turning his disdain against them :o

Sosa lola
05-07-18, 09:34 AM
The comment calling me a' special snowflake' made me laugh particularly hard.

LMFAO!!! :lol:

I guess when someone puts their work out there, they should expect getting criticism, even fanfic writers. As long as the comment doesn't insult those who did the work and was strictly a criticism on the work itself, I think it's fine. They should take it into consideration.

Priceless
11-07-18, 10:57 AM
Be warned Spike fans, there is some Spike dislike in the new Slayerfest 98.

At one point one of the reviewers says that it gives a terrible message to young girls about obsession and love being the same. I'd love to tell them thanks for mansplaining that, because young girls can be so silly about such things, can't they. Unlike young boys who know exactly the difference between love and obsession *eye roll

Cheese Slices
11-07-18, 01:54 PM
Be warned Spike fans, there is some Spike dislike in the new Slayerfest 98.

At one point one of the reviewers says that it gives a terrible message to young girls about obsession and love being the same. I'd love to tell them thanks for mansplaining that, because young girls can be so silly about such things, can't they. Unlike young boys who know exactly the difference between love and obsession *eye roll

I don't mind the Spike criticism, especially in early S5 cause he's genuinely f*cked up there, but I can't count the number of podcasts/reviews I had to forego because they spent more time pearl-clutching than actually analyzing and discussing the show. It's especially annoying when you have men lecturing us silly fangirls about what we should enjoy and how and why. This "won't anyone think of the children ?" mentality is starting to wear me down.

Priceless
11-07-18, 03:07 PM
I don't mind the Spike criticism, especially in early S5 cause he's genuinely f*cked up there, but I can't count the number of podcasts/reviews I had to forego because they spent more time pearl-clutching than actually analyzing and discussing the show. It's especially annoying when you have men lecturing us silly fangirls about what we should enjoy and how and why. This "won't anyone think of the children ?" mentality is starting to wear me down.

I wonder if I'm too sensitive sometimes, and I would encourage everyone to listen and make their own minds up. One of the guys tries to rationalise Spike within the verse, while the other totally dismisses him and says that from the dream sequence at the end of Out Of My Mind 'that's the end of Spike for me' and he can't bear him from that moment on.

Silver1
11-07-18, 03:16 PM
Be warned Spike fans, there is some Spike dislike in the new Slayerfest 98.

At one point one of the reviewers says that it gives a terrible message to young girls about obsession and love being the same. I'd love to tell them thanks for mansplaining that, because young girls can be so silly about such things, can't they. Unlike young boys who know exactly the difference between love and obsession *eye roll

My usual retort to this is "so, how many vampires did you go out with?" because last time I looked this was a bloody fantasy show you idiot! When Vampires are real, then you can sound off again with authority. :roll:

- - - Updated - - -


I wonder if I'm too sensitive sometimes, and I would encourage everyone to listen and make their own minds up. One of the guys tries to rationalise Spike within the verse, while the other totally dismisses him and says that from the dream sequence at the end of Out Of My Mind 'that's the end of Spike for me' and he can't bear him from that moment on.

And they had the audacity to call me "a special snowflake". :roll:

Priceless
11-07-18, 03:30 PM
It seems to be my day for bad-mouthing podcasts . . . but I'v stopped listening to Angel On Top. One of the themes of Angel S 5 is that you can't beat the system by being the system, and these women behave like men from the 1970's and I've come to hate their 'who I'd like to f**k' bit they do at the end of each episode. No. Just don't. It's horrible.

Silver1
17-07-18, 06:19 PM
Slayerfest98 now witters on about the episode 'Family'. Usual bollocks only made interesting by Amber Bensons input.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-67-amber-bensons-insect-reflection

Priceless
17-07-18, 10:59 PM
Slayerfest98 now witters on about the episode 'Family'. Usual bollocks only made interesting by Amber Bensons input.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302210242/ep-67-amber-bensons-insect-reflection

I want to listen because Amber Benson is on . . . but I just cannot listen to them anymore.

Sosa lola
18-07-18, 08:33 AM
I listened to it and it was enjoyable.

Silver1
18-07-18, 10:16 AM
It was one of their better, but only because of Ambers input. Next week JM is their guest for Fool for love, so I wonder If they're going to come across as indifferent to his character as they normally do? I suspect not. :lol: