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TimeTravellingBunny
10-07-16, 12:15 AM
This is me kind of being a bit silly. ;) But also, kind of being dead serious. :blink: :o

You'll see what I mean.

The pictures themselves aren't really spoilery in the obvious way, but you need to be familiar with some other shows created by Joss and run by him and/or his family members to get the references.

So... we know what Angel and Darla's child was like. I bet a lot of people have wondered what Buffy and Angel's, Buffy and Spike's or Angel and Cordy's (to name a few) hypothetical, if unlikely to exist, child would be like. Unfortunately, I have no ideas on that front. But I do have a few others...

Have you ever wondered what it would be like if Faith and Angel (Angel/Angelus - same guy, I just always call him "Angel" whatever the soul status) had a baby?

http://i67.tinypic.com/2evrb4i.jpghttp://i68.tinypic.com/4fz4mo.jpg

Well, wonder no more! I'm here to reveal to you Faith and Angel's unlikely (human) child! Behold:

http://i68.tinypic.com/2a0f5zo.jpg

What if Fred and Willow had a child?

http://i64.tinypic.com/2d75wzb.jpg

(...and it got raised in England. OK, that can happen!)

http://i64.tinypic.com/1extg7.jpg

And what if Andrew and Warren were to have a child?

http://i64.tinypic.com/29bzrio.jpg

(I couldn't find a picture without Jonathan, but I don't think he'd be involved)

(It's a surprisingly cute child, but the genes just mixed really well, I guess!)

http://i68.tinypic.com/52dv5t.jpg

This is all I've got so far. If anyone has any other similar ideas, please share!

kimothyschma
10-07-16, 11:45 PM
I don't watch Agents of Shield, but I like that last one! Sounds about right and NPH even looks like Andrew. :lol:

TimeTravellingBunny
11-07-16, 05:16 PM
I don't watch Agents of Shield, but I like that last one! Sounds about right and NPH even looks like Andrew. :lol:
You should watch Agents of SHIELD. The show is really, really good. It's not perfect, but it's really underrated and gets a lot of undeserved flak from people who mostly haven't seen more than a few episodes in early season 1. That's like someone watching Teacher's Pet and I Robot, You Jane and telling everyone that Buffy sucks. A lot of it came from Marvel fanboys whining that the show didn't have characters from the comic books or people with superpowers (which is actually not true, they've either introduced or revealed superpowered and comic book characters, but it wasn't obvious early on) or that there aren't enough characters from the MCU movies appearing in the show (there are some important appearances from the movie characters, but not the Avengers themselves. What the heck were people expecting, Robert Downey Jr and Scarlett Johansson popping up? ).

Another issue is that the early episodes, the first part of season 1, sort of give the wrong idea of what kind of show it would be. It looked like a light-hearted procedural about a team of non-superpowered SHIELD agents (although, some of them have skills on the Black Widow level) flying around the world and solving different cases, with some banter, friendship and potential romance thrown in. So a lot of people were disappointed, since it was the first MCU TV show and others because it was a Whedon-created show, and it got criticized for being "bland", not comic booky enough, not risky etc., not enough MCU tie-ins, all new characters (mostly played by young actors with little and no experience), and reviewers liked to call them boring and stereotypical because they seemed to belong to certain stock character types (but seemed is the crucial word here). All of these complaints look kind of silly in hindsight. It's kind of difficult to explain this without spoilers, but the thing is, the entire first reason was built around a storyline that's heavily tied into Captain America: The Winter Soldier (great movie, BTW, the best MCU movie to date IMO). The other movie tie-ins aren't that important (usually it's just a few throw away lines and you don't even have to watch the movies they refer to), but this was one was really integral to the story. They knew what was going to happen in The Winter Soldier from the start, and that the movie would come out late during season 1 (it was released between episodes 16 and 17 of the show's first season), and they had to work around that, stall, and not reveal what's really going on in order not to spoil the movie. Besides, they had to first establish the status quo and get you to know the characters, before things get serious. I don't think the show was ever that bad as some people make it out to have been - a couple of the early episodes were lame, but it was always entertaining, characters were always likable and had nice chemistry IMO; there are a few big mysteries set up early on, and the show gets more and more into the serialized storyline, especially from episode 10 onward. Then there are some big twists that turn everything around, and episodes from 16 to the finale are insanely good. (And once you know where the story is going, suddenly everything in the early episodes will look different. I've started to rewatch season 1 from the start, and there are so many "Holy shit, how different this looks now" moments, especially when it's things that they referenced later on.)

And then seasons 2 and 3 continue in the same vein - and it's a whole different show than what it looked it would be: heavily serialized (you really can't miss episodes), darker, more SciFi, the characters develop in really interesting and unexpected ways (to me personally,Coulson is probably the least interesting character on the show, but fortunately the show is more of an ensemble show and you can even argue whether he's really the lead), the arcs are insane (I mean that in a positive way), and there's no stalling or filler anymore. Usually when a show has 22 episodes a season, that means a lot of filler, but no, from the back half of season 1 to the end of season 3 it's a crazy ride with an incredible amount of stuff happening all the time. I binge watched it over a few weeks, and never wanted to take a break.

The show can really throw huge twists (including one that I think is the best twist I've seen on TV), so one should really, really steer clear of spoilers (which means, away from any fandom discussions, Youtube videos etc.). I would recommend: avoid spoilers, start the show from the beginning (if you've seen The Avengers, that's all you need), stick to it and don't skip anything even if there are some not-so-stellar episodes, then after episode 16, watch Captain America: Winter Soldier (even if you've already seen it), then keep watching the show from episode 17 onwards.

kimothyschma
11-07-16, 11:16 PM
Thanks, that's some interesting stuff. I haven't seen any of the MCU except for Iron Man, so I kind of assumed I'd have to watch those first. My favorite podcasters (http://storywonk.com/we-can-do-this-without-a-hulk/) are about to start a series on it, so I'm considering watching along with them. Just please tell me it gets better after Iron Man? I didn't enjoy that one too much.

TimeTravellingBunny
12-07-16, 12:05 AM
Thanks, that's some interesting stuff. I haven't seen any of the MCU except for Iron Man, so I kind of assumed I'd have to watch those first. My favorite podcasters (http://storywonk.com/we-can-do-this-without-a-hulk/) are about to start a series on it, so I'm considering watching along with them. Just please tell me it gets better after Iron Man? I didn't enjoy that one too much.
You haven't seen The Avengers? I kind of assumed everyone here had seen that one, because of Joss.

My only problem with a lot of MCU movies is that most of them looking a bit samey after a while, but there are exceptions. But the TV shows are all different from the movies, and very different from each other.

The MCU movies go like this - first there's Phase 1, leading up the 'The Avengers':

Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk - you can skip this one, it's really bad and the other movies have most been ignoring it (it's not even the same actor as in The Avengers)
Iron Man 2 (the first Iron Man was a decent origin story movie. If you didn't like it, you certainly won't like Iron Man 2, which sucks. many people think it's the worst MCU movie).
Thor (I find this one fun, and it has interesting actors like Anthony Hopkins as Odin and Tom Hiddleston as Loki)
Captain America: The First Avenger (this one is a bit different because it's a period drama set during the Second World War. It's pretty good)

Then there's The Avengers (2012), which is the big movie that featured 6 superheroes (Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow and Hawkeye) and that the other movies were building towards. (You really need just to have seen Iron Man, Thor and Captain America: TFA for it.) Written and directed by Joss. It was really well done, funny and entertaining. Pretty much the crucial movie for all of the MCU.

The next ones are:

Iron Man 3 - pretty polarizing movie, some people hate it and some love it. It didn't affect much rest in the MCU
Thor: the Dark World - one of the worst MCU movies, but still kind of entertaining
Captain America: The Winter Soldier - the best MCU movie so far, it's more a political thriller than a typical superhero blockbuster, definitely worth seeing
Guardians of the Galaxy - entertaining space adventure movie, not very connected to anything else that's going on
Avengers: Age of Ultron - Joss' second movie, unfortunately not nearly as good one as the previous one
Ant Man - another origin story movie, rather average
Captain America: Civil War - it's really more of an Avengers movie, but it also follows directly from CA: The Winter Soldier. Another great movie (my 2nd favorite so far)

There have been 4 TV shows so far (but more are upcoming, mostly on Netflix):

Agents of SHIELD - follows directly from the events of The Avengers. You need to have seen Captain America: The First Avenger and The Avengers before the show, and then to see Captain America: The Winter Soldier between episodes 16 and 17 of season 1.
Agent Carter - a prequel series, set in the 1940s, right after the war, follows the events of Captain America: The First Avenger. The main character, Peggy Carter, first appeared in that movie. It's a really fun series with a great 1940s retro visual style/music/fashion, the main character is amazing, and it deals mostly with sexism of that era. Sadly, it's been cancelled after 2 seasons (the first one had 8, the second 10 episodes). I really loved season 1, but not so much season 2.

The two latest shows are on Netflix, and they are both darker, more adult in content, and very 'R-rated' (graphic violence, sex), and most people seem to think they're the best things MCU has done so far. And neither of them is really that connected to the movies or other shows - you can pretty much just watch them on their own.

Daredevil has had 2 seasons so far, each with 13 episodes. I've only started watching it, but there are many people who think it's the best thing in MCU.
Jessica Jones (so far season 1 has been released, with 13 episodes - season 2 is supposed to come later this year) is fantastic. It's intense, has really heavy subject matter, but they deal with it really well an in a sensitive manner. It has a very flawed heroine, a great female friendship, and David Tennant as the creepiest villain I've seen in years.

BTW, both AoS and Daredevil have Whedon connections. AoS was created by Joss, who also cast the characters, co-wrote the pilot and helped shape the main season 1 storyline, but aside from that, he hasn't been involved - the show is run by his brother Jed and Maurissa Tanchareon, who were also showrunners of Dollhouse, and Jeffrey Bell from AtS, and Daredevil has been run by Steven S. De Knight and Drew Goddard.

kimothyschma
12-07-16, 01:58 PM
Thanks for the info! It's good to know which ones I can skip. And oh yeah, I started Thor once... but fell asleep. Oops! Yeah, I haven't seen The Avengers, even though it's Joss, because I'm just not into the comic book superhero trappings -- the costumes, the crazy hair, the extravagant powers, etc.

I did watch Jessica Jones and I LOVED it. I didn't find it hard to follow without seeing any of the movies. I think Jessica is my favorite female lead since Buffy. Krysten Ritter, David Tennant, and Rachael Taylor were all incredible in that. I'm really looking forward to season 2. My husband has just started watching Daredevil, too. He has been trying to get me to watch it with him, all week actually. Maybe I will just jump into that.

Guy
12-07-16, 04:32 PM
Captain America: The Winter Soldier - the best MCU movie so far, it's more a political thriller than a typical superhero blockbuster, definitely worth seeing


Am I the only one who thought this movie had a pretty disappointing second half? I think the main problem with the Captain America movies is that The Winter Soldier never becomes a real character with a personality, and yet much of the last 2 movies was centered around him. 'Civil War' was better IMO (I think it's my favorite MCU film... Either that or 'The Avengers'), partially because the Winter Soldier started getting a personality in it, and partially because much of the movie centered on Tony Stark.

Also, it's amazing how much Dardevil and Jessica Jones feel like Angel and Faith. And the Jessica Jones comics were released after Faith's introduction to 'Buffy', so maybe Brian Michael Bendis got the idea from her...?

TimeTravellingBunny
12-07-16, 05:20 PM
Am I the only one who thought this movie had a pretty disappointing second half? I think the main problem with the Captain America movies is that The Winter Soldier never becomes a real character with a personality, and yet much of the last 2 movies was centered around him. 'Civil War' was better IMO (I think it's my favorite MCU film... Either that or 'The Avengers'), partially because the Winter Soldier started getting a personality in it, and partially because much of the movie centered on Tony Stark.

I don't think he got a lot more development in CW than he did in TWS. I don't think he gets much of a personality in any of the movies - basically, he's just Steve's best buddy, who was once a cool dude, and then got victimized and brainwashed Manchurian candidate style by Hydra... and that's about it, he didn't get all that fleshed out even in CA: The First Avenger - but that didn't bother me, because I thought CA:TWS, in spite of the title, was mostly about things other than the Winter Soldier himself. And I thought several other characters were far more prominent as characters than he was. Aside from Steve - Natasha, Sam, Fury and Pierce. And when Bucky did appear and we saw him programmed by Pierce, they did genuinely make me sorry for him. But his scenes with Steve didn't really require Bucky to have much personality, it was about the drama of Steve having to fight his brainwashed best friend.

I prefer TWS because Civil War didn't focus enough on the political issues it was supposed to be about, before making it all about personal drama - though I did love the personal drama in that movie, that's why it's my second favorite.

The Avengers has now fallen into 3rd place. I really loved it when I first saw it, as a total newbie to MCU, who didn't even know a lot about the comic book characters (I just had basic ideas who Hulk, Iron Man, Thor and Captain America were). That movie was a really good introduction to Marvel.



Also, it's amazing how much Dardevil and Jessica Jones feel like Angel and Faith. And the Jessica Jones comics were released after Faith's introduction to 'Buffy', so maybe Brian Michael Bendis got the idea from her...?
Well, it's not surprising that Daredevil looks like Angel - aside from the similarity of the theme, both its showrunners worked on Angel! (And on later seasons of Buffy.)

I was at first shocked to find out that the showrunner of Jessica Jones, Melissa Rosenberg, used to be the screenwriter for several of the Twilight movies. That's a huge change in quality of work for her. But then, I guess with Twilight, she was stuck with the source material being what it was. And it sort of makes sense - after spending years adapting Twilight, you're going to be in the right state of mind to write a show about abuse and creepy stalkers! :xd

Guy
12-07-16, 05:51 PM
I don't think he got a lot more development in CW than he did in TWS. I don't think he gets much of a personality in any of the movies - basically, he's just Steve's best buddy, who was once a cool dude, and then got victimized and brainwashed Manchurian candidate style by Hydra... and that's about it, he didn't get all that fleshed out even in CA: The First Avenger - but that didn't bother me, because I thought CA:TWS, in spite of the title, was mostly about things other than the Winter Soldier himself. And I thought several other characters were far more prominent as characters than he was. Aside from Steve - Natasha, Sam, Fury and Pierce. And when Bucky did appear and we saw him programmed by Pierce, they did genuinely make me sorry for him. But his scenes with Steve didn't really require Bucky to have much personality, it was about the drama of Steve having to fight his brainwashed best friend.

He didn't get a LOT more development in 'Civil War', but he got some stuff (like his "Am I really worth all this?" line, and character traits like his tendancy to be a lot less careful about collateral damage than Steve), whereas in TWS he was just a total cypher to me. But my main problem with TWS was the climax - there was too much meaningless action (I really didn't care about the fight between Falcon and that guy who would become crossbones), and the main emotional climax turned out to be one of my least favorite tropes - the "I will defeat your mind-programming with the power of love" trope, which never really works for me.


I prefer TWS because Civil War didn't focus enough on the political issues it was supposed to be about, before making it all about personal drama - though I did love the personal drama in that movie, that's why it's my second favorite.

I agree to certain extent, but 'Civil War' had a couple of things that pushed it over the edge to greatness for me:

1. It finally solved the "weak villains" problem of Marvel. Granted, Alexander Pierce was one of the better villains of the MCU, but in 'Civil War' the villain was either Cap or Tony, depending on who you supported, and that's just amazing. The movie had the most interesting conflict of any superhero movie since 'The Dark knight', or possibly ever.
2. It's the first Marvel movie that ever ended WITHOUT a happy ending, which made it a lot less predictable and more emotional for me. Thanks to this, It had what is BY FAR the most emotionally powerful climax of all the MCU films, IMO.

Also, Tony's arc in the movie just blew me away. Completely fantastic.


The Avengers has now fallen into 3rd place. I really loved it when I first saw it, as a total newbie to MCU, who didn't even know a lot about the comic book characters (I just had basic ideas who Hulk, Iron Man, Thor and Captain America were). That movie was a really good introduction to Marvel.

The main reason I love 'The Avengers' so much over most of the others, is because it is one of only 2 films in the MCU in which the climax of the story was NOT disappointing to me. The other is 'Civil War', of course. And I actually found that I love 'The Avengers' MORE now, after I spent so much time with all of these characters. The MCU really feels like a long-running TV show...


Well, it's not surprising that Daredevil looks like Angel - aside from the similarity of the theme, both its showrunners worked on Angel! (And on later seasons of Buffy.)

Oh, yes. And Jane Espenson wrote dialogue for 'Jessica Jones'!

TimeTravellingBunny
12-07-16, 06:25 PM
I agree to certain extent, but 'Civil War' had a couple of things that pushed it over the edge to greatness for me:

1. It finally solved the "weak villains" problem of Marvel. Granted, Alexander Pierce was one of the better villains of the MCU, but in 'Civil War' the villain was either Cap or Tony, depending on who you supported, and that's just amazing. The movie had the most interesting conflict of any superhero movie since 'The Dark knight', or possibly ever.
2. It's the first Marvel movie that ever ended WITHOUT a happy ending, which made it a lot less predictable and more emotional for me. Thanks to this, It had what is BY FAR the most emotionally powerful climax of all the MCU films, IMO.

Also, Tony's arc in the movie just blew me away. Completely fantastic.

I agree with those reasons, though I don't think either of them was the villain - either could be seen as the antagonist (or not really, if you aren't taking sides), but the villain was Zemo.

And I loved Tony's arc, too - it was better than in any of his own movies, and RDJ was fantastic.


Oh, yes. And Jane Espenson wrote dialogue for 'Jessica Jones'!
She did? I had no idea. Thanks for the info. I've just googled it and found the article where she talks about it.

I wonder how many times something like this happens where well known writers do uncredited work. I know that Joss and Marti were often not credited for their rewrites on BtVS and AtS, but that was because they were executive producers. Writing credits often can be misleading, BtVS is a great example (Conversations with Dead People, for instance). I find myself often wondering about that, who wrote what on TV shows with multiple writers and producers. It's usually not really the case of one writer being completely responsible for an episode they're credited for - scenes get moved around, showrunners do rewrites, or certain writers get tasked with writing dialogue for specific characters. (George R.R. Martin was, for instance, very eager to make sure people knew he had absolutely nothing to do with the Theon scenes in the GoT season 3 episode that he was credited with - the torture porn/Theon's castration scene.There's, for instance, one episode of AoS season 3 (3.09) that I overall really disliked, I hated lazy storytelling devices they used, but there's one piece of dialogue in it that's some of the best writing on that show, I want to frame it and put it on the wall - like it's come out of some much better episode. Makes you wonder if it's a case similar to BtVS Beneath You, where most of the episode is average and then one scene is amazing (the ending), and then you find out it's because that scene was written/rewritten by someone else (Joss, in that case).

But this was particularly surprising to me since I had no idea Espenson was even involved in Jessica Jones in any capacity.

Guy
12-07-16, 06:53 PM
I agree with those reasons, though I don't think either of them was the villain - either could be seen as the antagonist (or not really, if you aren't taking sides), but the villain was Zemo.

Yeah, I guess I meant they were the antagonists.


I wonder how many times something like this happens where well known writers do uncredited work. I know that Joss and Marti were often not credited for their rewrites on BtVS and AtS, but that was because they were executive producers. Writing credits often can be misleading, BtVS is a great example (Conversations with Dead People, for instance). I find myself often wondering about that, who wrote what on TV shows with multiple writers and producers. It's usually not really the case of one writer being completely responsible for an episode they're credited for - scenes get moved around, showrunners do rewrites, or certain writers get tasked with writing dialogue for specific characters. (George R.R. Martin was, for instance, very eager to make sure people knew he had absolutely nothing to do with the Theon scenes in the GoT season 3 episode that he was credited with - the torture porn/Theon's castration scene.There's, for instance, one episode of AoS season 3 (3.09) that I overall really disliked, I hated lazy storytelling devices they used, but there's one piece of dialogue in it that's some of the best writing on that show, I want to frame it and put it on the wall - like it's come out of some much better episode. Makes you wonder if it's a case similar to BtVS Beneath You, where most of the episode is average and then one scene is amazing (the ending), and then you find out it's because that scene was written/rewritten by someone else (Joss, in that case).

But this was particularly surprising to me since I had no idea Espenson was even involved in Jessica Jones in any capacity.

Yeah, it's interesting. There's lots of cool things you notice, once you learn a little about the behind-the-scenes and start to recognize the writing style of each writer - for example, the Spike-Faith basement scene in 'Dirty Girls' was written by Marti Noxon (according to the commentary track - "sometimes you just need to let Marti be Marti"), and like Marti always does, she made sure to include lots of references to chains and sex, heh.

Jane Espenson probably added that "one Big Bad at a time" line to 'Jessica Jones'. :)

kimothyschma
14-07-16, 12:37 AM
Jane Espenson probably added that "one Big Bad at a time" line to 'Jessica Jones'. :)

Geez, no wonder I loved it. I didn't know she worked on it!

TimeTravellingBunny
15-07-16, 12:57 AM
Also, it's amazing how much Dardevil and Jessica Jones feel like Angel and Faith. And the Jessica Jones comics were released after Faith's introduction to 'Buffy', so maybe Brian Michael Bendis got the idea from her...?
I don't know, but another reason why Jessica Jones may make one think of Faith is that Krysten Ritter kind of looks like Eliza Dushku, even though the comic version of Jessica looks nothing like that.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2s0igxi.jpg

DanSlayer
15-07-16, 01:01 AM
That's Jessica back in her 'Jewel' days though. He normal version does slightly look like Eliza.

Not sure how to post pictures here but The Mayor + Lilah=Johanna from Mr Robot. Never before have I thought a new mother pushing her child in the stroller on a sunny day and talking to our main character could be so unsettling...

Also 5-7 years later and the Trio would have been hacking the Scoobies and I imagine it would play out a bit like this, (Mr Robot is so twisted Elliot's actually the protagonist here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLo-XXvFn2k

TimeTravellingBunny
15-07-16, 02:51 AM
That's Jessica back in her 'Jewel' days though. He normal version does slightly look like Eliza.

Not sure how to post pictures here but The Mayor + Lilah=Johanna from Mr Robot. Never before have I thought a new mother pushing her child in the stroller on a sunny day and talking to our main character could be so unsettling...

Also 5-7 years later and the Trio would have been hacking the Scoobies and I imagine it would play out a bit like this, (Mr Robot is so twisted Elliot's actually the protagonist here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLo-XXvFn2k

I really need to start watching that show. It's been on my list of new-ish shows to check out once I find the time. I don't know who Johanna is, and I don't want to get spoiled, but I just googled her images and, wow, I can already see what you mean. She has a very unsettling smile.

You can insert images from your computer with Insert Image option, or insert pictures from links: <IMG>image address</IMG> - replace <> with []. Although I usually use Tinypic.com to upload pictures and then post them here, to avoid possible hotlinking issues.

KingofCretins
15-07-16, 02:52 PM
"Captain America: The Winter Soldier" and "Captain America: Civil War" probably are the two best. I also wish CW had gotten more into the political argument, although... Team Cap, fervently, and I'd have hated for the movie to end up tacitly endorsing Tony's position, because Tony's wrong. But for all that, I kinda liked it turning to the very personal matter, it was unexpected (even if it required one of the most aggregious "cinema sins" in recent memory to get it there).

"Daredevil" and "Jessica Jones" are both pretty freakin' awesome, way better than 75% of the movies.

"Thor: The Dark World" is best when it's hilarious, like random monsters running about or Kat Dennings being like "meow meow!"

If we can embrace the whole MCU for this game and not just AOS, I'd venture the case that Patsy could be Buffy and Riley's kid, both in appearance and in general persona.

TimeTravellingBunny
15-07-16, 03:36 PM
"Captain America: The Winter Soldier" and "Captain America: Civil War" probably are the two best. I also wish CW had gotten more into the political argument, although... Team Cap, fervently, and I'd have hated for the movie to end up tacitly endorsing Tony's position, because Tony's wrong. But for all that, I kinda liked it turning to the very personal matter, it was unexpected (even if it required one of the most aggregious "cinema sins" in recent memory to get it there).

"Daredevil" and "Jessica Jones" are both pretty freakin' awesome, way better than 75% of the movies.

"Thor: The Dark World" is best when it's hilarious, like random monsters running about or Kat Dennings being like "meow meow!"

If we can embrace the whole MCU for this game and not just AOS, I'd venture the case that Patsy could be Buffy and Riley's kid, both in appearance and in general persona.
Oh, we can embrace anything for this game, no limitations.

What was the cinema sin? Tell me in spoiler tags.

I don't think either side seemed quite in the right. I think Tony was more right on general principle, but the details swing it a bit more to Cap's side. They should be monitored and accountable, but you can't have a rule that they can't do anything until 117 governments agree, that's absurd - in urgent situations you need to act immediately, and if they use excessive and unnecessary force that cost innocent lives, they can be called to accountability later. They should have worked on achieving middle ground and negotiating with the UN on amendments to the Accords before they become acceptable, but instead everyone took extreme positions. Tony: "I accept everything they come up with." Cap: "I accept nothing."
Though, they did suggest negotiating a middle ground for a moment, but then Cap found out about Wanda's house arrest.
And someone should have asked what the hell was General Ross doing there in position of authority, with his history.
The best part of Thor: the Dark World was Chris Evans as Loki cosplaying as Cap.

KingofCretins
15-07-16, 04:05 PM
Oh, we can embrace anything for this game, no limitations.

Okay, so - Buffy + Riley --> Patsy


What was the cinema sin? Tell me in spoiler tags.

Captain America: Civil War Spoilers --

my "oh @#$% you, movie" moment was "no, there was not a camera on the exact point of isolated highway where Tony's parents were murdered -- and even if there was, if a super turbo assassin knew it was there to shoot it out, he'd have killed them 100 yards farther down the road". I'm givin' out wings!

In all seriousness, I get that it was an easy way to reveal to Tony but they could have just (as a friend pointed out) MC'd Bucky into giving Tony the report or something.


I don't think either side seemed quite in the right. I think Tony was more right on general principle, but the details swing it a bit more to Cap's side. They should be monitored and accountable, but you can't have a rule that they can't do anything until 117 governments agree, that's absurd - in urgent situations you need to act immediately, and if they use excessive and unnecessary force that cost innocent lives, they can be called to accountability later. They should have worked on achieving middle ground and negotiating with the UN on amendments to the Accords before they become acceptable, but instead everyone took extreme positions. Tony: "I accept everything they come up with." Cap: "I accept nothing."
Though, they did suggest negotiating a middle ground for a moment, but then Cap found out about Wanda's house arrest.
And someone should have asked what the hell was General Ross doing there in position of authority, with his history.

Well, some of my other problems with the film are that the political issues arose out of some pretty ridiculous failures of moral clarity -- two major ones in the first, what, 20 minutes?

-- Tony Stark and the Avengers bear no moral culpability for that boy's death in Sokovia, that fails on Ultron for undertaking the plot they were trying to stop. If Tony had any guilt in it, it was for INVENTING Ultron in the first damn place, and the film chooses to completely avoid contemplating that directly, even though I'd have loved for Clint to do so ("The Futurist is here!" indeed).
-- When Steve and Wanda are having their bed-side pity party about the explosion, and which one was at fault, they both failed. RUMLO is the one with the bomb, RUMLO the one who intentionally detonated it, RUMLO who intended to kill. Anyone that died as a result, falls on him only and exclusively. Wanda tried to save lives from Rumlo, and she failed, so Rumlo killed different people than those he otherwise would have, but it's still all 100% on Rumlo. I honestly wanted to slap them both.

Guy
15-07-16, 05:46 PM
#TeamTony here. I mean, obviously, Tony made lots and lots of mistakes throughout the movie, but he's right on basic principle, IMO. But regardless of team, I absolutely loved this movie. It really got me thinking. I think the interesting thing is which analogy to choose for these teams:

We could, for example, say that one team is like Obama, and the other is like Bush, but even then we can interpret it in at least 2 different ways - we can say that Cap is like Bush because he's an interventionist (in foreign policy), whereas Tony is like Obama because he's more anti-intervention. OR, we can say that Tony is like Bush, because he's willing to hurt personal freedoms for security (domestically), whereas Cap is like Obama because he's less supportive of that. And you can say that Cap is a capitalist whereas Tony is a socialist, or you can say that Cap is a fundamentalist whereas Tony is a pragmatist, etc... etc...

There's tons of different ways to view it, through tons of different analogies, and each one makes a different team seem more right. It was a really clever and confusing story, and I loved that.

Also - Skye is the love child of Echo and Victor.

TimeTravellingBunny
15-07-16, 10:27 PM
Okay, so - Buffy + Riley --> Patsy
And here's a visual illustration:

http://i66.tinypic.com/347fv5y.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/24ycwmd.jpg

I call her Trish, because that's what they usually call her in the show.


Captain America: Civil War Spoilers --

my "oh @#$% you, movie" moment was "no, there was not a camera on the exact point of isolated highway where Tony's parents were murdered -- and even if there was, if a super turbo assassin knew it was there to shoot it out, he'd have killed them 100 yards farther down the road". I'm givin' out wings!

In all seriousness, I get that it was an easy way to reveal to Tony but they could have just (as a friend pointed out) MC'd Bucky into giving Tony the report or something.

I thought the video footage was the report. That's why Zemo was interrogating Bucky's ex-handler and needed the old Hydra records. Only Hydra could have recorded and kept that video footage, and while I'm not sure exactly where the camera was placed and how it all worked, I assumed that they had filmed Winter Soldier's assignments to be absolutely sure that everything had gone right and that the assignment was carried out as planned. Maybe even to evaluate his performance and use it in further programming/brainwashing of him and other Winter Soldiers they were to make. In any case, they were keeping that one, so I presumed they also filmed and kept the other "reports" as well.



Also - Skye is the love child of Echo and Victor.
You mean just by looks? I'm not sure I see a similarity in personalities or roles - and it's a bit difficult to talk about the personalities of dolls in general.

Otherwise, she often gets compared to Buffy, and early season 1 Skye has a similar personality to early Buffy (before... various stuff happens to both of them, and they both change). Although Buffy was normal middle-class teenage girl who just wanted to be a cheerleader and have a normal life but then accepted the destiny fighting vampires and saving the world which she had initially tried to escape from, while Skye was an orphan and a rebellious 20 something hacker/activist fascinated by superheroes but distrustful of government, who got recruited into working for a secret-ish governmental spy organization, in spite of her early misgivings. I can think of other parallels and differences, but that's spoilery stuff.

Guy
15-07-16, 10:54 PM
And here's a visual illustration:

http://i66.tinypic.com/347fv5y.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/24ycwmd.jpg

I call her Trish, because that's what they usually call her in the show.

That's really spot on.


I thought the video footage was the report. That's why Zemo was interrogating Bucky's ex-handler and needed the old Hydra records. Only Hydra could have recorded and kept that video footage, and while I'm not sure exactly where the camera was placed and how it all worked, I assumed that they had filmed Winter Soldier's assignments to be absolutely sure that everything had gone right and that the assignment was carried out as planned. Maybe even to evaluate his performance and use it in further programming/brainwashing of him and other Winter Soldiers they were to make. In any case, they were keeping that one, so I presumed they also filmed and kept the other "reports" as well.

Head-canon-ed.


You mean just by looks? I'm not sure I see a similarity in personalities or roles - and it's a bit difficult to talk about the personalities of dolls in general.

Otherwise, she often gets compared to Buffy, and early season 1 Skye has a similar personality to early Buffy (before... various stuff happens to both of them, and they both change). Although Buffy was normal middle-class teenage girl who just wanted to be a cheerleader and have a normal life but then accepted the destiny fighting vampires and saving the world which she had initially tried to escape from, while Skye was an orphan and a rebellious 20 something hacker/activist fascinated by superheroes but distrustful of government, who got recruited into working for a secret-ish governmental spy organization, in spite of her early misgivings. I can think of other parallels and differences, but that's spoilery stuff.

I was thinking about just looks... But now that I think about it, there's some similiarity between Skye's personality and Caroline's pre-doll personality - both of them were these reckless anti-establishment idealists.

TimeTravellingBunny
16-07-16, 11:19 AM
I was thinking about just looks... But now that I think about it, there's some similiarity between Skye's personality and Caroline's pre-doll personality - both of them were these reckless anti-establishment idealists.
Yes, Skye is like Buffy + Caroline in terms of personality.

- - - Updated - - -

And here's the visual for DanSlayer's Mr Robot pick. I can see it already, though I haven't watched the show.

Not sure how to post pictures here but The Mayor + Lilah=Johanna from Mr Robot. Never before have I thought a new mother pushing her child in the stroller on a sunny day and talking to our main character could be so unsettling...
http://i67.tinypic.com/2e3v8fl.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/33w2rh0.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/11mf7yb.png

Regarding Skye's looks, what gives me pause is that Chloe Bennet is half-Chinese. She can pass as white (she describes herself as 'deceptively Asian' on her social media, and has revealed that she had to change her name from Chloe Wang in order to get any chances in Hollywood), and most of the times I don't see it in her features, but there are certain times when I do:

http://i63.tinypic.com/14w3si9.png

It's kind of with Hayley Atwell (Peggy Carter), before I learned she was part Native American, it never occurred to me (she always plays white women or presumably white women, and everyone always seems to think she's white even though she's talked in interviews about her Native American origin and it's on her Wikipedia page), but once I did learn, I definitely see it:

http://i67.tinypic.com/35l6j9j.png

TimeTravellingBunny
18-07-16, 09:48 AM
Thinking about some more...

Do you think Wesley and Lilah could have produced Adelle DeWitt?
She has it all - Dark Wesley's acid attitude and self-loathing alcoholism (Britishness is just a nice bonus), combined with Lilah's whole... morally challenged nature and the whole working for an evil corrupt organization thing.

http://i63.tinypic.com/23iv7gx.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/28ldhqv.jpg

And I guess you could try to make a case for Xander + Spike => Lance Hunter from AoS.
I have to say I hated it when fans/media compared him to Spike, which seemed simply to be based on season 4 Spike and the 'smartass non-posh Brit guy reluctantly joining the group', my reaction was "blah, he's no Spike, not even closely as complex or interesting". But one can't deny that he's pretty devoted to his lady love, as well as ready to fight and go through some really risky, dangerous and difficult ordeals, and he also has Xander's tendency to act impulsively and go off and do stupid things out of anger. Plus Xander is a demon magnet, and Hunter once said his marriage was an inter-species relationship because she was a demonic hell-beast... even if that was not literally quite true...

http://i68.tinypic.com/2qtftau.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/sdhfrd.jpg

TimeTravellingBunny
28-07-16, 03:14 AM
Now, this doesn't technically fit the "having child together" definition, but when it comes to similarity in characters/aspects of characters, or in this case, weird SciFi/supernatural concepts/non-human beings...

massive, massive spoilers for the second half of season 3 of Agents of SHIELD:

Hive has some similarities with both Jasmine and Illyria. Like Illyria, he's an ancient being who takes over both bodies and memories of dead humans, and his goals and plans are so much like Jasmine's - achieving "world peace" at the cost of people's freedom, by mind-controlling everyone and making everyone drink Kool Aid and worship him. Plus, he also occasionally may devour a few humans for sustanance/repairing his body, just like Jasmine. (And neither of them are, uh, nearly as physically beautiful [severe understatement] in their true form as they usually look...)

At the same time, his backstory/origin story makes me think of the First Slayer - a regular person from an ancient primitive (for lack of better word) society, who got subjected to some pretty horrific physical violations in order to be made into a super-human super-warrior, only in his case it was aliens who did it rather than his own society.

He's also a composite personality, made of thousands of different memories/personalities/skills of various people, and normally in control of all of them, sort of like Echo. When they used the memory machine against him, he started losing it and switching between different personalities/memories, almost like Alpha, but he got a grip on it again relatively quickly.

TimeTravellingBunny
14-09-16, 02:37 AM
A better visual presentation I've just made for Tumblr: http://travllingbunny.tumblr.com/post/150379792658/if-these-buffyverse-characters-had-a-child

http://i67.tinypic.com/jffbbk.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2n4yux.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/vhdsv9.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2urmh46.jpg

Not too happy about the Weslah/Adelle one, because I couldn't find good pics whose colors and texture matched, but oh well.

TimeTravellingBunny
16-02-17, 06:56 PM
It seems that I'm not the only one who's thought about Buffyverse characters' babies. Here's what I've accidentally found on a blog while google searching pics of Faith:

http://i63.tinypic.com/ku4cg.jpg

I can see it.

It's kind of funny to think Buffy+Faith=Jessica Jones and, as King suggested, Buffy+Riley=Trish.