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Prism
01-10-14, 11:34 PM
I thought for a long time Faith was too comfortable in her body to just be straight, a few times I saw she might be into women (like Willow's alter ego in the "Doppelganger" episode) but I didn't have any clear cut instances. Do you guys believe she might have been Bisexual knowing just how unfiltered she was when it came to being unapologetic about her promiscuity? Was this an underlying character trait that might have gone missed? Just a curious thought...

TimeTravellingBunny
01-10-14, 11:48 PM
I thought for a long time Faith was too comfortable in her body to just be straight, a few times I saw she might be into women (like Willow's alter ego in the "Doppelganger" episode) but I didn't have any clear cut instances. Do you guys believe she might have been Bisexual knowing just how unfiltered she was when it came to being apologetically promiscuous? Was this an underlying character trait that might have gone missed? Just a curious thought...
What does being comfortable in your body have to do with being bisexual?

What does being promiscuous have to do with being bisexual? (I assume you meant "unapologetically promiscuous", I don't remember Faith ever being apologetic about her sex life.)

Since when is bisexuality a character trait?

When I saw the title, I thought it could be an interesting discussion, if it was based on Faith's relationship with Buffy and the perceived homoeroticism in it... but you haven't made a good argument in your post.

Prism
02-10-14, 12:14 AM
It was based on the Fuffy relationship for the most part. Especially the way she acted around Buffy.

vampmogs
02-10-14, 01:32 PM
I'm sure you didn't mean anything but it but it's a little offensive equating bisexuality with promiscuity. That's a pretty unfortunate stereotype that bisexual people get saddled with a lot and it's not true at all. Like I said, I'm sure you meant no offence, but many bisexuals will tell you that they're faced with that kind of assumption a lot and it's based on nothing more than ignorance. It's probably best to avoid linking the two.

In regards to Faith, well, I've always felt she was deeply in love with Buffy. Whether or not it's something she's aware of or if it's just buried deep in her subconscious I'm not sure, but it often feels like she has an unrequited love for Buffy. She's certainly obsessive, she's flirtatious, she tries to steal Buffy's boyfriend which seems to be far more about BUFFY than Angel or Riley, she definitely appreciates Buffy's body in Who Are You, and I think she has trouble making sense of why Buffy doesn't reciprocate the same kind of intense feelings and obsession that Faith has for her. I lean more towards believing that Faith isn't really aware that she loves Buffy romantically and mistakes her deep feelings as purely platonic/friendship which is why she becomes so bitter and resentful when Buffy isn't as passionate about her. I love Fuffy and I certainly think Faith means a lot to Buffy (in good and bad ways) but it's very much an unrequited love story IMO.

KingofCretins
02-10-14, 02:31 PM
If we are meant to give unquestioned credence to characters' words (i.e. the expected reaction to Willow's frequent variations on "gay now"), then, no, Faith is not bisexual or bicurious, per Season 8.

I'm a sucker for the Buffy-Faith relationship, Lesyay and all, one of my favorite fanvideos of all time is Buffy/Faith, "Tell Me" by Billie Myers (downloadable at http://www.laurasha.com/vids/).

HisMRS
03-10-14, 05:51 AM
I always felt Faith's sexuality was fluid. I don't think she considered herself to be bisexual but she was obviously attracted to Buffy.

Prism
04-10-14, 04:02 AM
I'm sure you didn't mean anything but it but it's a little offensive equating bisexuality with promiscuity. That's a pretty unfortunate stereotype that bisexual people get saddled with a lot and it's not true at all. Like I said, I'm sure you meant no offence, but many bisexuals will tell you that they're faced with that kind of assumption a lot and it's based on nothing more than ignorance. It's probably best to avoid linking the two.

In regards to Faith, well, I've always felt she was deeply in love with Buffy. Whether or not it's something she's aware of or if it's just buried deep in her subconscious I'm not sure, but it often feels like she has an unrequited love for Buffy. She's certainly obsessive, she's flirtatious, she tries to steal Buffy's boyfriend which seems to be far more about BUFFY than Angel or Riley, she definitely appreciates Buffy's body in Who Are You, and I think she has trouble making sense of why Buffy doesn't reciprocate the same kind of intense feelings and obsession that Faith has for her. I lean more towards believing that Faith isn't really aware that she loves Buffy romantically and mistakes her deep feelings as purely platonic/friendship which is why she becomes so bitter and resentful when Buffy isn't as passionate about her. I love Fuffy and I certainly think Faith means a lot to Buffy (in good and bad ways) but it's very much an unrequited love story IMO.

I am bisexual. The reason I linked the two in this discussion was because Faith was clearly attracted to Buffy in certain scenes during Season 3 so I was curious if she was or not. Pretty certain, speaking from experience, real gay, bi, lesbian, homosexual stereotypes are actually more offensive than loving to have sex and being comfortable in your own skin.

I viewed it in my mind as a one-sided love affair. But again, speculating since the show never really made it clear.

Stoney
04-10-14, 07:52 PM
I never saw any sexual interest between Buffy and Faith. I hadn't even considered it until I heard people talking about it online and I have to say I'm unconvinced. I always thought Faith's regard for Buffy was based on insecurities/jealousy of her personal circumstances and relationships with others and never felt there was a sexual side to it. I don't think openly considering the body of someone the same sex means you have any interest necessarily beyond a general curiosity and for a personal comparison either. We are rewatching S3 at the moment though so I will certainly consider it again, and then in S4 too.

MikeB
27-12-14, 08:13 AM
* I consider that Faith Lehane was sexually attracted to Buffy Anne Summers and that she is was – and perhaps still is – in love with Buffy Anne Summers. Other than Buffy, there isn’t a hint that Faith was attracted to other females.



Prism


I thought for a long time Faith was too comfortable in her body to just be straight, What do you mean by “just be straight”? Do you assume that all people who are ‘comfortable in his or her body’ are bisexual or homosexual?


Do you guys believe she might have been Bisexual knowing just how unfiltered she was when it came to being unapologetic about her promiscuity? Um, huh? If Faith never told anyone that she was bisexual, maybe that’s a big hint that she’s not bisexual.



vampmogs

* It’s likely inaccurate to say that Faith Lehane is or ever was promiscuous. Promiscuity means “‘undiscriminating sexual behavior’: behavior characterized by casual and indiscriminate sexual intercourse, often with many people”.

There’s no evidence that Faith would have sex with ‘just anyone’.


* I consider that Faith knows that she’s in love with Buffy. It seems clear that Faith even in BtVS S3 almost at every opportunity ‘felt Buffy out’ regarding whether Buffy would want to ‘be’ with Faith. I also consider that it’s very possible that Buffy and Faith ‘fooled around’ in BtVS S3.

Frankly, Buffy’s telling Spike in “End of Days” (B 7.21) that she gets “weird mixed signals” from Faith makes almost no sense if Buffy/Faith never actually happened in any way.




Stoney


I never saw any sexual interest between Buffy and Faith. Well, at least from Faith’s side, it’s canon.

Faith_
05-06-15, 07:05 PM
* I consider that Faith Lehane was sexually attracted to Buffy Anne Summers and that she is was – and perhaps still is – in love with Buffy Anne Summers. Other than Buffy, there isn’t a hint that Faith was attracted to other females.

My viewpoint, Faith Lehane and Buffy Summers could have been lesbian lovers, or, more to the point bisexual. True, Faith flirted more with Buffy and Buffy was more we have a mission to perform. So, in my judgment, it has been the post series with countless fan art, fan gifs, and fan production with youtube that has given us the complex idea of them being lovers. Since Willow and Tara were open about it, it just feels a little strange to have a second set of lesbians when during that era having just two women being lesbian was a taboo. True, today you can have two lesbian couples but as of yet, I have let to find that series.

Do I have a problem with Faith and Buffy being lesbians, not really. Just feels a little strange the only two living slayers at that time only could fight each other and think to themselves about sex with each other. The point of being a slayer, was to give young girls at that time a feeling of self worth. Hard to sell a television show being about being a strong independent woman and if you find your equal you need to fight her and think about sex with her as well. Never got that message, only from the fan art.

MikeB
08-07-15, 05:54 AM
Faith_

The subtext of Buffy/Faith was relatively clearly in BtVS S3. Faith in “Homecoming” (B 3.05) tells Buffy that they should go to the Homecoming Dance together and only after Buffy’s look at that does Faith ‘clarify’ that they can ‘hook up’ with guys at the dance. “Bad Girls” (B 3.14) has Faith literally drawing a heart on the window (with a stake drawn on it) to entice Buffy to go with her to kill some vampires. Then they dance together at the Bronze before dancing with guys. Etc.

I remember that Douglas Petrie discussed such Buffy/Faith subtext with Joss Whedon and I remember that Joss later said that such subtext is canon.


* Given we’ve only seen Faith and Buffy to attracted to fellow Slayers, there’s around zero evidence that Buffy and Faith are actually bisexual.


Hard to sell a television show being about being a strong independent woman and if you find your equal you need to fight her and think about sex with her as well. Um, that happened with Angel and especially with Spike.

Buffy literally tells Riley – whether a Freudian slip or not – “You get fangs, I’ll get horny.” and gets bored with Riley when Riley no longer has superpowers.

Rupert
12-08-15, 03:43 AM
I thought for a long time Faith was too comfortable in her body to just be straight, a few times I saw she might be into women (like Willow's alter ego in the "Doppelganger" episode) but I didn't have any clear cut instances. Do you guys believe she might have been Bisexual knowing just how unfiltered she was when it came to being unapologetic about her promiscuity? Was this an underlying character trait that might have gone missed? Just a curious thought...

For the chance to have sexual relations with Buffy, I think she'd turn gay (bi-Sexual). Also, for the chance to score with Dawn, she also would have turned (assuming she is 100% straight). The question is whether Cordellia was a lez?

Dinza
30-10-15, 10:42 PM
For the chance to have sexual relations with Buffy, I think she'd turn gay (bi-Sexual). Also, for the chance to score with Dawn, she also would have turned (assuming she is 100% straight). The question is whether Cordellia was a lez?

If she was then she was either in denial or straight-up hiding it as I recall she made a somewhat ignorant remark about Harmony being a "big ol' lesbo" over the phone to Willow, much to latter's annoyance.

Faith_
31-10-15, 06:42 PM
Given we’ve only seen Faith and Buffy to attracted to fellow Slayers, there’s around zero evidence that Buffy and Faith are actually bisexual.

True. There is little evidence they are bisexual as that would be adding to much when we already had Willow and Tara as grinding it out with each other. Still, they were playful with each other and some deep respect for each other even that they both wanted to be the leader in a special group of only two women. The problem with Faith was, she wanted to be the leader of Buffy and nobody other then her. When Buffy had to be the leader to the others when she was just trying to be a co-equal with Faith.

With two women that had the feeling they had to fight each other. There was really little interest on Faith's part to kill Buffy, or, have a fight so long and pointless in the view of Buffy or Faith: just to drag it out till one defeats the other in open combat. Nor, was there a feeling with Buffy to kill Faith, then when she had to fight Faith to save Angle. She just really wanted to bring Faith in to be bitten and that was more that.

Still, during the series and after the series: both women never made a claim that the internet should stop posting fake fan images of their characters as Faith and Buffy as lesbian lovers. Or, say anything negative with fan written lesbian sex acts. True, they could not really stop the fans doing whatever they want. Still, they never made any argument against both internet subjects. Still, I feel they played it up and let it play itself out.

vampmogs
01-11-15, 12:20 AM
There is little evidence they are bisexual as that would be adding to much when we already had Willow and Tara as grinding it out with each other.

Are you only allowed one gay relationship on the show at a time or something? That's like saying because we already had Buffy/Angel then it would be adding too much to have other heterosexual relationships like Willow/Oz or Xander/Cordelia "grinding it out" with each other. If they had wanted to, why would it be "too much" to have Buffy/Faith just because we already had Willow/Tara? I really doubt, or at least hope, that the writers ever felt this way or based decisions on their story based on something like that.

MikeB
23-07-16, 12:40 AM
Rupert

* There is around zero evidence that Faith was sexually attracted to Dawn. Again, we see Faith being attracted to Buffy. We don’t see Faith being attracted to any other female (except herself).


* Cordelia was not a lesbian.



Faith_


The problem with Faith was, she wanted to be the leader of Buffy and nobody other then her. Faith wanted Buffy to be ‘more like Faith’. I’m not sure she wanted to be “the leader of Buffy”. Faith relatively liked the Scoobies.


When Buffy had to be the leader to the others when she was just trying to be a co-equal with Faith. Buffy always was trying to be better than Faith.

Rupert
11-08-16, 03:08 AM
Rupert

* There is around zero evidence that Faith was sexually attracted to Dawn. Again, we see Faith being attracted to Buffy. We don’t see Faith being attracted to any other female (except herself).


* Cordelia was not a lesbian.

Now we are getting somewhere.

So Buffy was almost raped by Spike.

VisionGuy
11-08-16, 05:03 AM
I'm a fan of Buffy/Faith. It's my favorite not-quite-canon ship. I do think Faith had some sexual/romantic feelings toward Buffy. Like someone else said before, Faith may or may not be consciously aware, but I think the feelings are there. Eliza Dushku even thought so, and she certainly played it that way. The First!Mayor Wilkins' "You've always wanted Buffy to love you" line, and the fact that Faith doesn't deny it, kind of hints at romantic feelings as well.

On Buffy's side, I don't think there was any sexual attraction to Faith. I think Buffy did have some strong love/hate feelings toward Faith, but I don't think it was at all romantic. If Buffy had offered to have sex with Faith in S3, I could easily see Faith agreeing. But if Faith had offered, I couldn't see Buffy agreeing at all.


The question is whether Cordellia was a lez?

No.