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Wolfie Gilmore
10-01-14, 12:19 PM
Let the arguing begin! What did they get right? What wrong

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/buffyverse-characters-ranked-worst-to-best

Stoney
10-01-14, 04:46 PM
Here is the list stripped down...
117. Kennedy
116. The Anointed One
115. Ben
114. Graham
113. Lee Mercer
112. Shannon
111. Principal Flutie
110. Hank Summers
109. Adam
108. Dr. Sparrow
107. Knox
106. Detective Kate Lockley
105. Percy West
104. Caridad
103. Molly
102. Linwood Murrow
101. The Beast
100. The Knights of Byzantium
99. Parker Abrams
98. Rona
97. Marcus Hamilton
96. Scott Hope
95. Rack
94. Glory’s Minions
93. Eve
92. Jasmine
91. Gavin Park
90. Riley Finn
89. Silas
88. Merl
87. Veruca
86. Chao-ahn
85. Forrest
84. Sahjhan
83. Caleb
82. Willy
81. David Nabbit
80. Connor
79. The Groosalugg
78. Principal Robin Wood
77. Nina Ash
76. Marcie Ross
75. Professor Maggie Walsh
74. The First Slayer
73. Virginia Bryce
72. Deputy Mayor Allan Finch
71. Penn
70. Quentin Travers
69. Violet (aka Vi)
68. Rondell
67. Kathy Newman
66. Daniel Holtz
65. Dracula
64. Katrina Silber
63. Skip
62. The First
61. Billy Blim
60. Amanda
59. Mr. Trick
58. D’Hoffryn
57. Holden Webster
56. The Deathwok Clan
55. Kendra
54. Dana
53. Whistler
52. Allen Francis Doyle
51. Gwendolyn Post
50. Dawn Summers
49. Gwen Raiden
48. Circle of the Black Thorn
47. Sweet
46. Billy “Ford” Fordham
45. Larry Blaisdell
44. Holland Manners
43. Dennis Pearson
42. Sunday
41. Justine Cooper
40. The Buffybot
39. Clem
38. Ethan Rayne
37. Charles Gunn
36. Roger and Trish Burkle
35. Lorne
34. Principal Snyder
33. Cassie Newton
32. Glory
31. Doc
30. Lilah Morgan
29. Halfrek/Cecily
28. Lindsey McDonald
27. Anne Steele (aka Lily Houston, aka Chantarelle)
26. The Master
25. Harmony Kendall
24. Joyce Summers
23. Warren Mears
22. Amy Madison
21. Jenny Calendar
20. Darla
19. Angel
18. Daniel “Oz” Osbourne
17. Illyria
16. Angelus
15. Jonathan Levinson
14. Andrew Wells
13. Tara Maclay
12. Drusilla
11. Xander Harris
10. Anya
9. Mayor Richard Wilkins
8. Wesley Wyndam-Pryce
7. Cordelia Chase
6. Winifred “Fred” Burkle
5. Buffy Summers
4. Faith
3. Rupert Giles
2. Spike
1. Willow Rosenberg
It is a strange list imo. Needless to say I don't agree with the top slot and I'm surprised Giles and Faith have hit places above Buffy herself. Angel and Angelus are split which makes zero sense (I think it was TTB who commented recently on finding it bemusing when people do this) but for Anya, Andrew, Jonathan, Richard Wilkins to get higher positions than Angel is weird to me. We then have Cordelia in seventh which is absolutely utterly ridiculous. I think as she is a second tier character played by a mediocre actress who was the worst thing in AtS because she couldn't sustain the level of role so should be waaaaay further down the pecking order. I mean Wes is 'lower' than Cordelia and that makes me :lol:. I didn't get much further looking over it after this point because it had already discredited itself too much for me. :D

TimeTravellingBunny
10-01-14, 05:39 PM
Yeah. I just posted this comment on the site:

There is so much here I don't agree with, particularly anything and everything relating to Angel the Series (I mean, who in the world who's watched that show at all can rank Gwen higher than Holtz and Connor - and so much higher, to make it worse? And Cordelia a better and more interesting character than Wesley, Darla and Angel himself? I don't think so. It really looks like a list made by someone who never enjoyed any of the storylines of that show.) Also, I love Giles, but he wasn't nearly as well written and developed as Buffy (only #5 for the Slayer herself?), Angel or Wesley, who are placed lower.

But while this may be a matter of personal taste, here is what is not: splitting "Angel" and "Angelus" into two characters makes ZERO SENSE. This is THE SAME CHARACTER. A very complex character, who deserves to be much, much higher on the list, whether you like him or not. (I would put him in top 5 for sure.) I don't see you listing Spike and... Spikelus separately ;) or Darla 1.0, Darla 2.0, 3.0. If you're listing "Angel" and "Angelus" as two characters, then you should also list Soulless!Spike and Souled!Spike separately, and Human!Darla and Vampire!Darla separately (at least). Heck, maybe even Willow and Dark Willow. Because it would make as much sense... i.e. none at all.

KingofCretins
10-01-14, 07:54 PM
My annoyance at the Angel/Angelus double ranking was tempered by my amusement that both lost out to Andrew :)

Look, from the time Iyari Limon's face appeared at the top of the list as you scrolled, we all had to know this wasn't going to be a particularly scholarly, literary analysis of the characters. I do think that putting Willow at the top was entirely defensible, though, as well as Wilkins as top 10 (I can even comprehend the angle from which he would be a better character to someone than Xander -- had more to do and more to play in his allotted screentime, to be sure).

Stoney
10-01-14, 08:26 PM
My annoyance at the Angel/Angelus double ranking was tempered by my amusement that both lost out to Andrew :) :xd

It's true not all of it is entirely bizarre but it is so far out of whack to my eye for such a large portion that it feels like chance that some hit close to fair on their placements. I mean it is incomprehensible to me to place a character like Wilkins in the top ten for his high impact etc in a shorter screentime and then have Connor at 80.

Sosa lola
10-01-14, 08:40 PM
Those lists will always be subjective. I also think the person who made the list was obviously talking about themselves ( using "I" when talking about a character ) so the list doesn't bother me. I don't like separating Angel and Angelus as two different characters, even though the show did make it seem like they are two different persons in BtVS S2. So, I can see why a lot of fans would see it that way.

HisMRS
10-01-14, 11:22 PM
I take lists like this with a grain of salt, mostly because they're subjective, as sosa lola said, and they are fan-written which means it's not gospel. I don't let the rankings bother me if I don't agree because it's someone else's opinion.
Now if Joss Whedon had written this list, I might get a little pissy at some of these rankings. LOL For instance, Willow as the best character? Um, no.

TimeTravellingBunny
11-01-14, 04:31 AM
Those lists will always be subjective. I also think the person who made the list was obviously talking about themselves ( using "I" when talking about a character ) so the list doesn't bother me. I don't like separating Angel and Angelus as two different characters, even though the show did make it seem like they are two different persons in BtVS S2. So, I can see why a lot of fans would see it that way.
BtVS season 2 didn't make them seem as two different persons. In fact, they didn't even use "Angelus" for soulless Angel - he was almost always referred to as "Angel" (even by Dru and himself), and he kept talking about the things he did in the other "soul state" in 1st person singular and owning up to it, even though he'd have all the reasons in the world to say "it wasn't me, it was some other guy who did all those awful things/behaved like Slayer's lapdog". They just played up a big contrast between his persona pre- and post- soul loss. It was "OMG, Buffy's boyfriend turned really evil since she slept with him and he lost his soul" rather than "Buffy's boyfriend died and some other dude possessed his body".

Gemini9857
11-01-14, 11:50 PM
I don't understand why Angel was included twice either. I've never understood that distinction because the people who make it are the same ones who count Spike once (with and without a soul).

From the title of the post I was excepting a mix of all his shows (Firefly, Dollhouse, maybe SHIELD characters) so I was about to be annoyed that Kennedy was included but when I realized it was just for the Buffyverse I realized there probably weren't any other noteworthy characters.

Sosa lola
12-01-14, 10:35 AM
BtVS season 2 didn't make them seem as two different persons. In fact, they didn't even use "Angelus" for soulless Angel - he was almost always referred to as "Angel" (even by Dru and himself), and he kept talking about the things he did in the other "soul state" in 1st person singular and owning up to it, even though he'd have all the reasons in the world to say "it wasn't me, it was some other guy who did all those awful things/behaved like Slayer's lapdog". They just played up a big contrast between his persona pre- and post- soul loss. It was "OMG, Buffy's boyfriend turned really evil since she slept with him and he lost his soul" rather than "Buffy's boyfriend died and some other dude possessed his body".

You're right. I guess it was Angel ( or Buffy ) who started the whole "It wasn't Angel" who killed all those people in S3. I remember something like that. While it's understandable for the characters to feel that way, it was probably an excuse some fans who like Angel and Bangel were very comfortable with.

I have to admit I haven't watched the show in a long time - only some scenes here and there for fanfic purposes. So, I could be wrong. But I do remember Buffy or Angel stating that Angelus isn't Angel.

Nina
13-01-14, 09:37 AM
There is Ats season 4 where the writers try to tell us that Angelus and Angel do not share the same memories. But let's face it that is not why this writer seperates the two. I have the feeling that he doesn't really like Angel (as in he considers Andrew a better character.) but enjoyed Angel without a soul and this way he could rank Angel lower and 'Angelus' higher. It's something you see a lot on non-BtVS blogs and fora; people who say that they thought that Angel was boring but that they enjoyed Angelus. And they say it in a way that it sounds like they are not one and the same person but two characters played by the same actor. Angel rarely gets the 'credit' for being also the amusing Angelus. (Not the way I look at it btw)

And while I do not agree with Angel and Connor -and plenty of others- being ranked so low (also I think it's rather laughable to consider them not very good characters but I'm also aware that especially Connor is not a fan-favorite and often ends up on "worst character ever" lists.) I was absolutely suprised by the placement of Gunn. He is 37. while Fred's parents are 36. Fred's parents are in three episodes and have no personality at all. How are they better than Gunn? How can anyone think that Gunn should be ranked lower than the Burkles?

Stoney
13-01-14, 09:53 AM
I think it is going by subjective character reaction/like/dislike rather than any objective analysis. I don't like Gunn. I think he is an aggressive arrogant pratt (as opposed to the aggressive arrogant Pratt that is my favourite character!!!). But Gunn is an interesting character with depths and some complex motivations and real extreme intense emotional responses so I find him interesting to watch. The Burkles were homely and nice, caring and supportive of Fred. Actually disliking them subjectively would be somewhat harsh. So if you remove character analysis, plot specifics and any insight depth and look at whether you would like to sit down for a coffee with them, then I can see why the Burkles could be preferred over Gunn.

I am surprised Connor (one of my personal verse favourites, definitely at least top 10) would often hit worst character lists. His story is very complex and very dark, so I suppose emotional angst ripping someone apart like that might be something people don't 'enjoy' watching and exploring depth within perhaps? He was so brilliantly portrayed by VK.

Nina
13-01-14, 10:35 AM
I understand that it's a very subjective list with their favorite characters (hence me being "whatever" about the ranking of Angel and Connor) and it's not really Gunn's place (although personally I would rank him top 15) that suprises me but the fact that the Burkles made enough of an impression to be ranked higher than Gunn. Yes they are nice people but they are complete non-personalities. I can think of more nice characters who showed up in three or four episodes and who aren't ranked as high. And I don't have the feeling that the writer dislikes Gunn. I mean Kate, Connor and Riley are the major characters that are seriously disliked by this writer looking at their ranking.

Rosely
13-01-14, 10:51 PM
Wow.. let's give the writer kudos for listing all characters... and leave it at that ;)

This list makes no sense whatsoever. Sure it's subjective, but like the others said Angel/Angelus apart doesn't make sense. To me placing Buffy fifth doesn't make sense either. Also Angel should've been in the top 5.
I have never understood everyones love for Tara... And placing her and Jonathan above Angelus and Oz is weird... But a list where Amy and Warren beat Joyce Summers, can just not be taken seriously ever.

MikeB
06-02-18, 03:06 PM
* I don't fully agree with the list, but it's not a bad list and certainly not invalid.



Stoney


for Anya, Andrew, Jonathan, Richard Wilkins to get higher positions than Angel is weird to me. The author's commentary makes sense and he didn't mention what I always do: that Angel gets forced importance after BtVS S3. Wolfram & Hart is made up out of nowhere to make Angel seem more important. The Shanshu Prophecy is made up by Wolfram & Hart to make Angel and the Fang Gang consider Angel more important than he otherwise would be. And no one remarks that any vampire can be ensouled.

Moreover, Spike in BtVS S7 already filled all of the qualifications of the Shanshu Prophecy.

Anya, Andrew Wells, Jonathan Levinson, and Mayor Richard Wilkins are interesting in their own rights. And never eclipsed. Grossalugg, Spike, and Dracula are all superior versions of Angel.


We then have Cordelia in seventh which is absolutely utterly ridiculous. I think as she is a second tier character played by a mediocre actress who was the worst thing in AtS because she couldn't sustain the level of role so should be waaaaay further down the pecking order. I mean Wes is 'lower' than Cordelia and that makes me [laugh]. I didn't get much further looking over it after this point because it had already discredited itself too much for me. The author writes of Cordelia the character, not Charisma Carpenter the actor. Moreover, I'm one of the very few-the only prominent one-on Boards who ever said that much of the non-BtVS characters stuff on AtS s1-s4 is because of Jasmine. Many-to-most consider-or simply want to consider-that Cordelia's actions and regard in AtS is because of Cordelia, not Jasmine.

Cordelia goes from a spoiled rich Mean Girl to a higher being.



TimeTravellingBunny


who in the world who's watched [AtS] at all can rank Gwen higher than Holtz and Connor - and so much higher, to make it worse? Gwen Raiden had an interesting backstory. Daniel Holtz's very existence made Angelus pathetic. Connor's existence is a gross insult to Buffy/Angel. I mostly agree with the author's take on the characters.

Gwen Raiden would have been a useful addition to the Fang Gang. She's a lesser version of Beck.


And Cordelia a better and more interesting character than Wesley, Darla and Angel himself? Wesley's story on AtS revolves around Wes somehow needing money. That's the reason Wes works for Angel. That's the reason Wes creates his own 'firm'. Even Wes/Lilah only happens because Angel fired Wes. It makes almost zero sense that Wes didn't have a trust fund. We never even hear of his father having any other children.

Darla isn't interesting. She's a former whore whom somehow the Master falls for. She later somehow falls for Liam. She's mostly used as a plot device in AtS.


Also, I love Giles, but he wasn't nearly as well written and developed as Buffy (only #5 for the Slayer herself?), Angel or Wesley, who are placed lower. The author decides to place the blame of Giles's departure in BtVS S6 on the actor, not the character. The author doesn't punish Giles for his "Lies My Parents Told Me" (B 7.17) actions. If anything, the author, in my opinion, didn't seem to like Buffy/Spike and that's why Buffy is placed so relatively low and Giles so relatively high.

I disagree with Giles's relatively high placement, but that doesn't discount the list generally.


* Most people, including the non-Spike Scoobies perhaps even post-BtVS S8 consider "Angel" and "Angelus" two characters. I remember I was one of the very few on Boards since 2005 C.E. who stated and maintained that "'Angel' is merely 'Angelus' plus the curse and all the experiences since being cursed".

Angel top 5 character? It can be argued that Angel should have been dusted in "Eternity" (A 1.17), "Sanctuary" (A 1.19), AtS s2, etc. Angel's below: William Pratt aka William the Bloody aka Spike, Buffy Anne Summers, Willow Rosenberg, Faith Lehane, Drusilla Keeble, and Illyria. And maybe Daniel Osbourne aka Oz. And maybe Tara Maclay. Including the comics pre-Season 10, even Dracula is a better character than Angel.

With AtS introducing the Groosalugg, Angel's hero-status didn't even make sense. Gwen Raiden is rich. Angel wasn't needed and the world would be better off if he were dusted.

Spike himself is the reason post-souled Spike isn't listed separately from pre-soul Spike. Spike tells Buffy that pre-vampire, post-vampire, and post-ensouled Spike are all the same person.



KingofCretins


Look, from the time Iyari Limon's face appeared at the top of the list as you scrolled, we all had to know this wasn't going to be a particularly scholarly, literary analysis of the characters. "Storyteller" (B 7.16) acknowledges that looking at the results of Xander's construction skills is more interesting and compelling than watching Willow/Kennedy.

The author didn't even mention the irksomeness of Kennedy's regard that she should lead Slayer and Co., that Kennedy somehow considered she was a better and more capable fighter than Spike, that Kennedy was a major reason Buffy gets kicked out of Buffy and Co. in "Empty Places" (B 7.19), etc.



HisMRS


I take lists like this with a grain of salt, mostly because they're subjective, as sosa lola said, and they are fan-written which means it's not gospel. I don't let the rankings bother me if I don't agree because it's someone else's opinion. The list was published by BuzzFeed, which is a huge website and a major one for pop culture. Such lists by major outlets are more relatively important than the random list by a random poster on Live Journal, or a Board.



Nina


I was absolutely suprised by the placement of Gunn. He is 37. while Fred's parents are 36. Fred's parents are in three episodes and have no personality at all. How are they better than Gunn? How can anyone think that Gunn should be ranked lower than the Burkles? The Burkles are delightful. I agree with the author's take on Gunn. And he doesn't even mention that Gunn essentially chose money over 'his people'. Gunn didn't even try to get his vampire-killing gang hired in AtS s2 or AtS s3 when it was obvious there was probably enough money and space for them.



Rosely


I have never understood everyones love for Tara... And placing her and Jonathan above Angelus and Oz is weird Tara has an interesting backstory; is a major reason Willow becomes so powerful; is essentially the 'new Willow' after Willow becomes so relatively powerful, cool, and popular; and Willow/Tara is one of the most celebrated relationships in pop culture.

Daniel Osbourne is mostly used to show how awesome Willow is. He's not much of his own character. The only reason Angelus is interesting is because of Buffy's hesitation to dust the face of Angel. If Uncursed Angel was in vamp face, he'd likely be dusted in "Innocence" (B 2.14).


... But a list where Amy and Warren beat Joyce Summers, can just not be taken seriously ever. Amy Madison and Warren Meers were interesting characters and key to certain things in the Buffyverse. Joyce Summers is mostly there to be supportive of Buffy both emotionally and financially.

Priceless
06-02-18, 05:49 PM
I am stunned by this list. Stunned! :D How is Kennedy the worst Buffyverse character? Worse than Parker or Jasmine for Eve? Nope. Characters I can't even remember are better than Connor? i don't think so. Dawn is 50th! Dawn is a wonderful character who grows so much over three seasons. Amy rates higher than Harmony! I could go on, but suffice it to say that this list is absolute nonsense and I suspect the author hasn't even watched the show.