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View Full Version : "What if Faith died".. Deaths in Season 8



Nostalgia
02-12-07, 06:38 AM
I know this will only last for 3-4 days.. however this idea was inspired from a dream of mine. I had dreamed that Faith had been killed in the final issue of "No Future For You.." and that she was eaten alive but killed the monster by blowing it up. Now considering that part is Out of Context, I also dreamed that fans were furious and completely backed out of season 8.

I am curious..

If Faith indeed died (in a more canon way.. let's say Ronan killed her).. Would your opinions on season 8 change? Would you be hardened and hurt by it so much that you'd end up rejecting the season because you want to leave on a high note that Faith didn't die? I believe if this indeed did happen, Buffy fans would be so unhappy that they'd begin to cry canon issues.. and be so fed up with the situation that they'd boycott the entire season. I personally wouldn't.. and I'd treat it just as an episode would be. Would the death have as big of an effect on you as say something out of the show? Let's take it a step further and say one of the key 4 was killed down the road (let's say season finale).. Would that be just as powerful as say.. I don't know.. "The Body?"

Thomas
02-12-07, 06:56 AM
Well, for me, no. I still read it. I tend to get annoyed when fans say, they're done with something because a certain character is killed. Yeah, I'm looking at you hardcore Marissa Cooper fans. :lol:

Though, I would be rather annoyed if Faith was killed, especially if she didn't fully get her redemption or if it was for nothing but shock factor. Faith has so much more left to be explored, especially with all these new girls that need her help. I'm hoping she goes to Scotland to aid the others. Maybe fully mending her relationship with Buffy. Heck, maybe throw in a BuFander love triangle? But, that's besides the point. :roll:

Phoenix
02-12-07, 07:31 AM
I definately wouldnt stop reading season 8, but i would be extremely upset. I know i would cry, and then be angry at Joss and the writers! And not only because i just love Faith so much, it would be a pretty stupid thing to do, to kill her. Her character is amazing, she has so much she can do, her whole redemption thing.. I too hope she goes to scotland with Buffy and help out the other slayers. She could really teach them all alot. And the whole Faith and Buffy relationship needs to be healed already. I just really hope she doesnt die, it would be heartbreaking :(!

vampmogs
02-12-07, 08:03 AM
Not at all.

Btvs season 8 is canon. Joss can kill *his* characters off whenever he feels like it. If people want to try and scream it isn't canon that is their problem. There'd be no point in doing a canonical continuation of Btvs if Joss couldn't kill off any of his characters because it is in a new medium, and I think he is fully prepared to. He did say in an interview the fun is that he can, and he should if it serves the story well.

I'd be upset if Faith died just because I love her character, but I was upset when Anya died, when Cordy died, when Tara died.. but I was never angry about it. These are Joss' characters, he can kill them off and personally I think it is lame if no one ever dies. Bring it on I say. :)

KingofCretins
02-12-07, 12:49 PM
It's canon -- it counts. I mostly just hope that Joss can restrain himself from such a thing. It's about the only plot development that could make me wish he'd just left it alone.

vampmogs
02-12-07, 12:53 PM
It's canon -- it counts. I mostly just hope that Joss can restrain himself from such a thing. It's about the only plot development that could make me wish he'd just left it alone.

Out of curiosity why is that? Because you think there is more potential for her character?

KingofCretins
02-12-07, 01:00 PM
Killing someone off in general -- I don't want him to do it at all. *Especially* not one of the core four. It would feel really unfair to all the people who've embraced this pay-as-you-go format to reward them by killing off their favorite character or characters. But, yeah, there are more stories for Faith out there as well. I'd love to see her become a series regular and move into the BHC :)

vampmogs
02-12-07, 01:06 PM
Killing someone off in general -- I don't want him to do it at all. *Especially* not one of the core four. It would feel really unfair to all the people who've embraced this pay-as-you-go format to reward them by killing off their favorite character or characters. But, yeah, there are more stories for Faith out there as well. I'd love to see her become a series regular and move into the BHC :)

Really? I actually kind of think the opposite, at least about the pay- as- you- go. I'd pay to see one of the characters die (though yeah, wouldn't like the core four dying) because it'd such a huge moment in the series, I'd have no problem with it. I've always kind of felt that Joss is rewarding us with more canonical Btvs period, anything else that happens is just a bonus.

But yeah it'd be a shame to see Faith die just because there is so much more potential there.

In relation to Faith moving into the BHC, given the recent interview with Jeanty I don't see it happening anytime soon unfortunately. Or at least that is the impression I got. But at least it wasn't explicitly stated as being such, so there is still hope :(

KingofCretins
02-12-07, 01:14 PM
I had emotionally braced myself for the idea that they were going to kill of Giles in Season 7, but if Joss were to take one of the core characters there in the BHC... Buffy, Xander, Dawn, or Willow... I would think him cruel.

I wouldn't give up on Season 8, though, any more than I've given up on beloved books or movies. But, it would feel like the most painful such loss in any fiction I've ever encountered, because Joss could have and did walk away from this story. If he does it, it would feel like what he came back to do. I would gladly pay triple the cover price for a guarantee he won't do it :)

vampmogs
02-12-07, 01:22 PM
I had emotionally braced myself for the idea that they were going to kill of Giles in Season 7, but if Joss were to take one of the core characters there in the BHC... Buffy, Xander, Dawn, or Willow... I would think him cruel.

Well Joss did say that because it is canon it means he can kill off his characters, so I think we should at least be prepared. I'm not sure I could ever think of him as cruel for doing this. To me it is the story that matters and perhaps it is naive of me but I've always felt Joss never intends to blatantly upset or please anyone in any strong way. He does what he feels is needed for the story and I guess hopes people will like it when they see it but not the other way around.


I wouldn't give up on Season 8, though, any more than I've given up on beloved books or movies. But, it would feel like the most painful such loss in any fiction I've ever encountered, because Joss could have and did walk away from this story. If he does it, it would feel like what he came back to do. I would gladly pay triple the cover price for a guarantee he won't do it :)

I dunno. I think it adds to the excitement and 'reality' that this is canon more if I know no character has a guarantee of surviving, just like the series. If we had some guarantee no one would die I don't think I could get as fully invested in the story because it'd at least wipe away one potential threat to our characters. I was fully prepared that Joss may have killed Faith off during this arc, I just had a weird feeling about it but that added to the suspense for me. A lot of interesting things can happen to the characters without them needing to die of course, but I think it should always be a possibility to happen.

bishopcruz
02-12-07, 03:41 PM
Well, the two who would probably piss me off the most would be if either Faith or Xander bit it. Xander perpetually worries me because they have come so damned close to offing him many times (well a couple times, there were strong rumors in S4, and an early draft of Chosen had him dying.) I do hope in either case that they kinda refrain from the wholesale slaughter of main characters that was Angel S5 I mean that season was friggen BRUTAL.

But if the death is a good one, and doesn't seem to be entirely for shock value, or for obvious behind the scenes reasons (Cordy) I'll probably continue.

The main thing is, I follow Buffy in many regards because of the characters, and if enough of my favorites bite it, then there is less incentive for me to want to continue watching. They are Joss' characters and he CAN do what he wants with them. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

I think that at the end of the day, the best writers, especially for cult shows like Buffy are those who care and know their fanbases well enough to know just how far they can push it. Buffy S7 came dangerously close to losing me as a fan at times, and had Xander died then, I might not be reading the comics now. He was one of the main reasons I stuck with the show when I was really getting annoyed by it. (S7 was the first season in years in which I actually missed episodes when it originally aired. Angel S5 had the same problem.)

But I will continue reading, and we'll see where it goes from here.

Nostalgia
02-12-07, 03:57 PM
I tend to agree that a death in the season (specifically Faith) might be good for the series. Sometimes a ballsy' move is needed to show that this season is really true.. and as vampmogs said its' effects would be huge enough to make a significant impact. I have to say that I wouldn't want Faith as a main character.. just because she's never been one.. I don't think she'd fit into the BHC really.. and it would draw far away the core 4 that I've been loving. Faith will always be the greatest reappearing character.. I'd appreciate it to stay that way. After all it is Buffy The Vampire Slayer, not Buffy and Faith The Vampire Slayers.

bishopcruz
02-12-07, 04:11 PM
Interesting point. I think the problem with Faith is the fact that she is a bit too strong a character for her recurring roles. I think it would be best if she had a spin-off, or barring that moved to where she would fit in better, say on the Angel side of the world. I do think it is a mistake to kill a character just for the shock of it. They already killed a fan-favorite recurring character in Ethan just three issues back. Killing an even MORE fan favorite character would probably just be a little gauche at this point.

Edit: Not to mention Joss has done a LOT of the 'shocker' deaths in recent memory (Fred, Tara, and Wash ) come to mind. Too many and it becomes a crutch.

Spoilers for 'Serenity' since I know that we are on a different board.

Koos
02-12-07, 04:15 PM
Well, the two who would probably piss me off the most would be if either Faith or Xander bit it. Xander perpetually worries me because they have come so damned close to offing him many times (well a couple times, there were strong rumors in S4, and an early draft of Chosen had him dying.)

He was actually suppose to die in the Vineyard scene. They were already filming it when Joss found out about it. He changed it into putting out his eye and forced in an arcline for him for the rest of the season. (Taking this into account, Empty Spaces made a great deal more sense to me.)

I wouldn't really mind if he would die, but it feels to me that it would go against his arcline. To me he's always been the guy who is just normal and whose arcline is to survive and grow one step strong each time while staying normal. This is why I'm also very happy he grew a leadership role after had survived the hellhole that is Sunnydale and the hellhole that is his family.

I wouldn't like Faith's death either, because I still feel she's needs to make amends with the scoobies and be a part of the team.

Giles' death might add fantastically to the drama of show, but he's a core scooby. It's feels kind of wrong to have him die. On the other hand it is good to know that even a core scooby is not safe in this realm. If someone should die to give the show more balls than I would be in favor for his.

I really wouldn't like to see Dawn die. That's it.

Andrew? No problems with.

Willow? Willow doesn't die. She will morph into a Goddess.

Nostalgia
02-12-07, 04:27 PM
I think the balance is to find a character that their death would have a significant impact on the series, but wouldn't be too controversial enough to hurt fans' emotions. I think Willow, Xander, or Dawn's death would all be to hard on us.. just because two of them are day 1 characters.. and Dawn is so young.

I personally think Faith would be perfect.. considering this whole arc is about her destiny for sadness.. and how her life just seems to be hard for whatever reasons. She is a good character to kill off because she's reoccuring (so we aren't hurt by it because of the episode-episode basis), and still is a huge fan favorite character.

I am definetly shipping for another death though..

bishopcruz
02-12-07, 04:34 PM
Willow? Willow doesn't die. She will morph into a Goddess.

Willow could be a really cool death IMO, and if he WAS to go with a shocker I think she is the only one who DOES make sense. I mean, let's be honest out of all the characters who are still kicking in the Buffy-verse, including Buffy, the only one who seems absolutely immune to getting whacked is Willow. Now for it to happen it would have to be done well, but it's probably the only SHOCKING DEATH that I think would serve its purpose well.

And, she'd be pretty easy to bring back.


He was actually suppose to die in the Vineyard scene. They were already filming it when Joss found out about it. He changed it into putting out his eye and forced in an arcline for him for the rest of the season. (Taking this into account, Empty Spaces made a great deal more sense to me.)

I wouldn't really mind if he would die, but it feels to me that it would go against his arcline. To me he's always been the guy who is just normal and whose arcline is to survive and grow one step strong each time while staying normal. This is why I'm also very happy he grew a leadership role after had survived the hellhole that is Sunnydale and the hellhole that is his family.

Which is why I perpetually worry for him. I mean, the fact that they have come so close, behind the scenes, so many times (He was dead instead of Anya in an early Chosen draft.) makes me wonder if one day, Joss is going to forget WHY it is a bad idea to kill him off. Xander is more integral to Buffy than many people realize.

In my heart of hearts though, I think that Joss has killed enough characters recently (in series terms) that he can leave them be for a few years and be alright.

Except for Andrew, that little weasel dies in S8, and I promise that I will buy each cover of that issue twice, and frame the page of his demise. Bastard killed Johnathan. :/

Enisy
02-12-07, 07:05 PM
Nicholas Brendon claimed the opposite in his most recent convention: that Joss was the one who wanted to kill off Xander in the vineyard scene, and the other writers talked him out of it.

Koos
02-12-07, 07:27 PM
Nicholas Brendon claimed the opposite in his most recent convention: that Joss was the one who wanted to kill off Xander in the vineyard scene, and the other writers talked him out of it.

Really? That's new to me. It kind of surprises me, but Joss is capable of it.

KingofCretins
02-12-07, 10:57 PM
I think killing off Willow or Xander would be the biggest mistake of Joss' creative career, personally. They are the identity characters for H U G E segments of his audience, in ways that even *Buffy* can't be, *because* she's the hero. Throw one of those central characters out, in an ongoing story that would just march right on past them, and it would feel like he's telling that segment of the audience that there's no room for them.

BlasterBoy
02-12-07, 11:00 PM
Killing Faith would be a horrible mistake, imo. I wouldn't quit the comics, but I'd be severely pissed.

If Xander, Willow, or Giles died, I would give up on it. You can't kill the core four, because they're just that. Bring in people around them, kill people around them. Just don't kill the core four.

Nostalgia
02-12-07, 11:01 PM
I think killing off Willow or Xander would be the biggest mistake of Joss' creative career, personally. They are the identity characters for H U G E segments of his audience, in ways that even *Buffy* can't be, *because* she's the hero. Throw one of those central characters out, in an ongoing story that would just march right on past them, and it would feel like he's telling that segment of the audience that there's no room for them.


I definetly 100% agree there.. why so upset by Faith's death? I mean I know she's a great character (every Buffy lovers adore her).. and I'd be greatly upset.. but don't you think if a character death happened, she'd be perfect?

Wolfie Gilmore
02-12-07, 11:06 PM
Answering this in a knee-jerk way, I'd say I'd be more up for one of the core four dying than Faith. Because I feel Faith is more interesting if you don't just tag her as the Other. If you bring her into the middle of things and give her her own voice rather than seeing her as the dispensable villain/bad girl. While someone who's seen as "central" dying, that destabilizes the 'verse for me in interesting ways....or it could, if written right.

However, I don't think that's something they need to do in season 8. There's enough newness in the story without adding death to that, and enough going on without having to have all the characters in grief mode on top of it all.

Hmm, though...somehow I can imagine Giles's death working better than the other characters, because I find it a little improbable that he's not dead yet, having been hit on the heads enough times to give anyone a brain haemmorage, even if it wasn't someone who's probably taken enough mystical drugs in his youth to fell the drug dealer in Withnail and I (the "if I medecined you, you'd think a brain tumour was a birthday present" dude).

KingofCretins
02-12-07, 11:14 PM
If there was some sense that fans weren't investing in the danger, I could see it, but A) we are, and B) it still wouldn't justify taking Willow or Xander, or Dawn. We've already had a very sudden and surprisingly affecting death in Ethan -- it would get gratuitous pretty fast.

Weredog
03-12-07, 12:12 AM
Willow could be a really cool death IMO, and if he WAS to go with a shocker I think she is the only one who DOES make sense. I mean, let's be honest out of all the characters who are still kicking in the Buffy-verse, including Buffy, the only one who seems absolutely immune to getting whacked is Willow. Now for it to happen it would have to be done well, but it's probably the only SHOCKING DEATH that I think would serve its purpose well.

And, she'd be pretty easy to bring back./

That thought had come up to my mind as well. Willow had always been the "damsel in distress" from the first season right up to the fifth. When she became Dark Willow, that was when I (and I think most viewers) realised that no demon in a dark alley would hurt -- let alone kill -- Willow.
Now if Willow was to die in some upcoming issue, I'd want it to be epic.

Maggie
03-12-07, 02:05 PM
Answering this in a knee-jerk way, I'd say I'd be more up for one of the core four dying than Faith. Because I feel Faith is more interesting if you don't just tag her as the Other. If you bring her into the middle of things and give her her own voice rather than seeing her as the dispensable villain/bad girl. While someone who's seen as "central" dying, that destabilizes the 'verse for me in interesting ways....or it could, if written right.

And a Faith death now would be particularly tragic, precisely because they finally are giving her her own voice; and they started her arc by recalling the iconic fight between her and Buffy in such a way as to remind us that even though it ended up being good slayer vs. bad slayer, the truth of it was always more complicated than that. But all of this makes me feel rather sure that we aren't going to have a dead Faith next issue. Every move they've made suggests that they know full well that Faith's story has always been more interesting than one which casts her as a disposable villain. In particular, Faith represents stuff that Buffy still needs to learn about (understanding her role in their dynamic, etc. etc.)

I rather doubt they'll kill any of the main characters any time soon. The only thing that makes me not sure of this is, ironically, the fact that they wasted Ethan so easily. Unless we get more story there, that was a really gratuitous death. And one way to make it not gratuitous is if it's there to set the stage for a massively non-gratuitous death, i.e. a death of a major character. And since Ethan would have been very useful if we were going to get more story on Giles, it's possible that Giles is the big gun on the chopping block (along with your points on this). Gack. I don't like that idea! The other major character that could go, I think, would be Willow. If we really are meant to think she's all white witch, all voice of wisdom, all powerful.... we'll that's nice for her. But Joss totally kills characters that don't have any obvious growing to do. Either that or he has higher powers hijack their bodies and make them vehicles for evil. And I'd much rather Willow be killed than have any sort of retelling of season 4 Cordy. So that's my prediction. I don't think we'll have a major death. But if we do, Willow's toast.