PDA

View Full Version : The Vampire Diaries 3.09 "Homecoming" Discussion Thread



KingofCretins
11-11-11, 03:01 AM
Wow, what an episode! Could also be called "in which everything sucks for everybody, always".

The plan that the Fellowship of the Falls concocted was even better than it was when they went after Katherine. They really did cover all their bases. I think it was a bit too obvious that it was Katherine there with Michael, but I didn't realize it was Katherine talking to Klaus earlier.

I wanted very much to be pissed off at Stefan and at the others for not being chained up. But I love that Katherine let him out and I love the reason why she did and why he stopped Damon. It was kinda awesome, and kinda cool. In many ways, those three are the three who are the three.

But look at everything that sucked for everyone!

Rebecca thinks she's made a friend and has opened up emotionally... and gets a literal knife in the back.

Bonnie appears to have definitely dumped Jeremy and basically freezes out Elena on the subject.

Carolina more or less dumps Tyler who really did about the only thing he could to protect her, chauvinistic or not.

Elena and Damon both are done with Stefan (and holy crap it sure looked like Katherine's call prevented the kiss).

Even Klaus is all alone now.

I'm a bit surprised that Michael was killed off so fast, and it was a biiiit cheesy that he takes the stake with him.

Many more thoughts, but it was a very good episode.

MikeB
11-11-11, 11:36 AM
I will respond to KingofCretins post later on. I'm merely posting my bullet points and analysis thing at this time. :)



3.09 “Homecoming” bullet points and analysis


Why wouldn’t Stefan want Damon to know that Stefan prevented Damon from killing Klaus in order to save Damon’s life? Does he not care if Damon hates him? Does he not care if Elena considers that Stefan loves Klaus more than Stefan loves Elena and Damon?

_____

I consider that with the deal Stefan made with Klaus that Stefan already preferred that Mikael die instead of Klaus. Stefan wins either way. Klaus dies and Stefan is free of Klaus’ compulsion. He probably can try to make amends with Elena and be with Elena again. Or Mikael dies and Stefan is not only free of Klaus’s compulsion, he still has Klaus as his BFF.

______

Rebekah should have killed Damon and Caroline last episode and at least put bind Elena. But at the end of 3.09, besides being daggered, the father she hates is dead and Klaus is still alive. So, relatively things aren’t that bad for her.

_______

Did Elena know that Katherine was part of the plan? Did Damon know that Katherine was alive? Or was it Mikael who wanted to use Katherine? Or did Katherine volunteer her services? If so, when did she become part of the plan? And why did they trust Katherine? Mikael seemed to not consider that Katherine could have been the one at the Homecoming Dance, so was Mikael not in on the Katherine plan? Stefan didn’t seem to be.

_______

Damon not telling Elena that Stefan is now free of Klaus’s compulsion is fairly unforgivable. Damon is so desperate to be with Elena that he wants her to believe that there’s no hope for ‘Elena Stefan’ returning to her. Does Damon actually believe that Stefan will leave with Klaus or just leave in general? Anyway, Damon absolutely should have informed Elena that Stefan is now free of Klaus’ compulsion instead of telling her that Stefan is gone from them forever.

________

Damon was upset that Katherine was leaving town. Damon still seems to have feelings for Katherine. Katherine told Stefan that she had loved Damon. This seems would only be a complication for Elena/Damon as Elena would have believed since 2.01 – Elena didn’t know that Damon wanted to have sex with Katherine – that Damon was no longer into Katherine. It may also seem a complication for Katherine/Stefan as Stefan wasn’t happy about the news from Katherine that she had loved Damon as well. Although of course Katherine shows a very clear and very strong preference for Stefan.

________

At the end of the episode, Stefan it doesn’t seem will be returning to Mystic Falls for maybe some time. Or at least he’s going to keep away from Klaus so that Klaus can’t compel him to tell him where the Originals are. That would leave Damon believing that Stefan really did want to leave Mystic Falls and has now has left. And it’d leave Elena believing that Stefan cares more about Klaus than Stefan does about Elena and Damon. And that Stefan apparently left town.

________

Why doesn’t Stefan want to bring his humanity back? Maybe a huge reason is that he doesn’t want to have to deal with his relationship with Elena. And maybe also he believes that he’ll want to do severe harm or even kill Damon over Damon’s trying to be with Elena. There’s also the fact that Elena told him she didn’t want to be a vampire and so a real long-term future with her is still impossible.

_________

Who does Ripper Stefan love?

He was showing a great deal of emotion for Klaus when Klaus informs that he will free Stefan from his compulsion. He shows by far the most emotion for Klaus. This makes sense since Stefan loved Klaus in 1922.

Second to Klaus, he shows emotion for Katherine. This makes sense as Stefan in 1864 and after was still in love with Katherine.

Third is probably Elena (this is in 3.06 and after). That Beer Toasting Scene in 3.06 had him seeming to kinda flirt with her. There’s the Catching You Scene – although I didn’t see love for Elena in that scene.

Fourth is Damon. Ripper Stefan if it can be avoided may not want Damon to die. But other than that there isn’t much emotion if any there.

And for Elena and Damon there’s barely any emotion there for them.

__________

Does Katherine like the ‘Old Stefan’ better than Ripper Stefan? Well, Stefan showed more feelings for Katherine in Season 2 and in 3.03 than he seems to in 3.09. Plus, now Stefan will probably continue to drink human blood and such even when he regains some of his humanity.

__________

It makes perfect sense that Katherine would be the one to help Stefan regain some of his humanity rather than Elena or Damon or anyone else.

Stefan can be open and honest with Katherine. He doesn’t have to hide things from Katherine. Stefan respects Katherine. And Ripper Stefan still has feelings for Katherine.

I wonder if Stefan told her that Lexi is dead or if Katherine knows that Lexi is dead.

___________

Maybe Stefan merely wants to get back a little at Klaus for Klaus making Stefan kill and for Klaus compelling him. Stefan did similar with Damon and Katherine when each messed with Stefan’s life too negatively for his liking.




* Why Stefan has the ability to betray Klaus. Did Klaus ever compel Stefan to love him above all others and always put his interests above all else? Also, if he was compelled by Klaus to protect Elena that means that he wouldn’t be telling Klaus that Elena plans to betray him.

* Wow, in the Opening Flashbacks Scene, Elena seems very comfortable around Ripper Stefan. Damon’s there as well, but still. This is a lot different from 3.07 and 3.08.

* Stefan doesn’t tell Elena and Damon that’d he’ll actually help them kill Klaus. He merely tells them that his job is to lure Klaus to Mystic Falls. That’s it. Stefan also informs them that he cares about being free from Klaus’ compulsion. He never says anything about wanting Klaus dead.

* Why didn’t Klaus ask Stefan for a smart-phone picture of Mikael’s dead body? Why didn’t Klaus ask Stefan if anyone was trying to kill him by luring him back to Mystic Falls?

* With Rebekah’s cracking voice, Klaus seemed to know that she was lying about Mikael actually being out of the picture. But at the end of the episode he seems to consider that Rebekah will be his loving sister again now that Mikael is dead.

* Why didn’t they show the Morning After Scene between Elena and Damon? Elena is just suddenly in the Salvatore Mansion. Also, we’re not shown if Stefan killed people after Damon left him outside the bar. The second is probably a given: Stefan likely killed more people. But this is the first time that Elena and Damon have slept together (didn’t have sex, but it’s still a big thing), and so how Elena felt about that would seem to be a very important thing for this episode and after.

* Like Elena’s little closest in her bedroom could actually house all of her wardrobe.

* Stefan/Elena/Damon : So, the plan is to kill Klaus that night or whatever. It seems at least Damon – and maybe Elena – believe that if that happens, Stefan becomes ‘Elena Stefan’ again. And yet Elena decides to prepare the weapons in Damon’s bedroom on Damon’s bed. Damon wasn’t home at the Salvatore Mansion the night before and now this. And obviously Stefan could hear them in Damon’s bedroom and even see it. Does Elena actually want to get back with Stefan or did she simply forget Season 1 and Season 2 and how Stefan felt about anything happening between Elena and Damon. Or is Elena not even thinking about how ‘Elena Stefan’ would feel about such things and interpret them. And sure enough Stefan does walk in on them with the lame excuse that he “needs to borrow a tie” from Damon. As if anyways Stefan couldn’t just take one of Damon’s ties.

* Elena’s so far giving Stefan snarky looks and comments. She’s showing no signs of being disgusted by him (pro-Elena/Stefan) or frustrated by him (maybe anti-Elena/Stefan; maybe pro-Elena/Stefan if she’s going to be with Stefan again after Klaus is killed).

* With the Damon’s Bathroom Scene, can’t tell if Stefan cares whether or not Elena dies.

* Stefan to Elena: “But if I look back at our history of epic plan failures,” (Damon looks towards Stefan; Elena looks away) “it’s usually because one of us let our humanity get in the way.” (This affects Elena emotionally. She seems sad. Look at Stefan, seems to have love in her eyes.) “So if I’m taking odds on how this thing goes down, it’s certainly not” (Stefan looks at Damon) “going to be me” (Damon looks back at Stefan) “who screws it up.” (Stefan looks back at Elena; then gives a little smile-smirk and points at her). (Stefan loses the smile-smirk and gets serious.) “I’ll see you at Homecoming.” (Looks between Elena and Damon; is looking almost menacingly at Damon.) “I can’t wait.” (Quick look back at Elena as he exits.)

I guess it’s possible that one reason Stefan is insistent on going to Homecoming is to see what transpires between Elena and Damon.

* Elena’s reaction after Stefan exists is interesting. At first, she seems to be missing ‘Elena Stefan’ then she has a resolved look which has her seeming to be thinking about Stefan (maybe about what he’ll be like after Klaus dies and/or if they can trust Stefan to actually help in the killing of Klaus), then she seems to be complementing something and doesn’t seem to know what to think. During this whole time Damon’s not looking at Elena and is instead focused on making the wolfsbane grenades. Elena doesn’t look at Damon.

* Neither Elena nor Damon seems to consider that if it could be avoided that Stefan wouldn’t want Klaus dead.

* Rebekah is getting prepared for the Homecoming Dance in Stefan’s room. She looks at herself in the same mirror that Elena looked at herself in 3.01.

* Why would Rebekah actually consider that Elena is her friend? Where did her ‘flawless instincts” that seem “supernatural” go that she suddenly out of nowhere seems to trust Elena and consider Elena her friend?

* Also, so maybe Mikael is needed for the plan. But Damon and Elena certainly aren’t. Why doesn’t Rebekah kill Damon or at least lock him away somewhere and why doesn’t she put Elena in a coma or something or at least lock her away?

* Rebekah warns Elena, “Just be careful. Mikael is not a good person and he definitely cannot be trusted.” But then in the next sentence she somehow becomes incredibly stupid. “No one in my family can.” And then she gives more reasons why she can’t be counted on to go with the Kill Klaus plan. Not helping is that Rebekah didn’t even want to include herself in the Kill Klaus plan.

* Was Elena always intending to dagger Rebekah or did she decide to when Rebekah suddenly was giving Elena reasons not to trust that Rebekah would actually go along with the Kill Klaus plan?

* When did Elena get The Necklace? Did she just get it from Alaric? At the end of the episode, we can’t tell if Rebekah is still wearing The Necklace or not.

* Rebekah seems to consider that there’s 0% chance that Elena would literally stab her in the back. And she actually knows that there’s an unused dagger around and she considers that Mikael would have no problem killing Rebekah.

* Of course, Rebekah isn’t actually fully dead.

* Hint that Katherine is switched for Elena. Elena after killing Rebekah turns around and is scared. Damon wouldn’t scare her.

* I guess Elena would call Damon instead of Stefan because she knows that Stefan used to be with Rebekah. And of course the others reasons of them not wanting Klaus to know that Rebekah is daggered and at this time Elena is closer to Damon than she is to Ripper Stefan.

* Elena/Stefan : Elena is sitting on Stefan’s bed. In 3.08, she didn’t even seem to want to enter Stefan’s room. Damon is in the bedroom with her.

* Damon says to Elena that stabbing Rebekah in the back is “very Katherine of you.”
Elena to Damon: “Not the way to make me feel better about myself Damon.”
D to E: “It was a compliment. Sort of.”
E to herself (and Damon?): “Stefan’s right. Someone’s going to let their humanity get in the way and screw this whole thing up. And it’s probably going to be me.” (She wasn’t looking at Damon the entire time.) (But it seemed she was scared and therefore saw Katherine already.)

* Elena/Damon : Damon to Elena: “Do you trust me.”
Elena to Damon (immediately and seemingly confidently): “Yes.”

* I assume Damon wanting Stefan incapacitated is the thing that Damon assumes Elena wouldn’t like and therefore he doesn’t tell her about that part of the plan. But this doesn’t really make sense as Elena is the one who goes for the starving Stefan until he’s good again routine. Why would she disapprove of Stefan being knocked out for a few hours or whatever?

* Damon is continuing to look at Elena in flirty ways. And yet she trusts that he actually wants to turn Ripper Stefan into ‘Elena Stefan’. Is there a part of Elena that doesn’t want Ripper Stefan becoming Elena Stefan?

* Matt knows that Rebekah is Klaus’ sister. And Matt seemed relatively fine with going to the Homecoming Dance with Katherine.

* Interesting way they avoided Stefan bringing a date to the Homecoming Dance. Stefan was part of the plan to take down Klaus.

* It’s obviously Katherine at the Homecoming given the way she reacts to seeing Stefan and Klaus together.

* Stefan negotiates with Klaus (about bringing Mikael’s dead body to Klaus): “All right. Perhaps there’s something in it for me. My freedom from your compulsion.”

Klaus to Stefan: “You want your freedom. Well, once [Mikael]’s dead and his weapon destroyed you’ll have your freedom. It’ll be my pleasure to give it back to you.”

Now, Stefan didn’t say anything about any future compulsion; he just mentions current compulsion. This is ultimately probably smart as it doesn’t give Klaus suspicion that Stefan would betray him in the future and therefore need to be compelled again.

And, of course, this little deal with Klaus virtually guaranteed that Stefan was going to side with killing Mikael and keeping Klaus alive. Which for Stefan makes sense as Klaus is probably less likely to want to kill Stefan than Damon would be. But Mikael besides not killing Stefan in 1922 hasn’t shown that he’s not at all dangerous to Stefan.

It’s also interesting and perhaps telling that Klaus doesn’t say “Once you prove Mikael’s daggered”. Klaus if anything would be at the most asking for Stefan’s help in killing Mikael.

Klaus informing ‘Elena’ – it’s very possible that he knew or suspected it was Katherine – about Damon being killed just made it more likely that Stefan would help to kill Mikael and keep Klaus alive. Klaus’s reaction to Mikael stabbing ‘Elena’ could be part not knowing if it was really Elena and part shock that Mikael would kill an innocent person.

* Third indication it’s Katherine at the Homecoming Dance. Mikael didn’t actually kill Stefan when he drank from Stefan. It’s also an indication that for whatever reason Mikael doesn’t want to kill Stefan. Stefan is obviously still a loose end in the Kill Klaus plan. And neither Mikael nor Damon even bothered to chain Stefan up.

* Klaus says he brought “a few dozen friends of his own” to the Homecoming Dance. So, there’s a bunch of hybrids around. Klaus pretty much brought a ‘Secret Service’ with him.

* Tyler dropped Caroline into unconsciousness with one shot of vervain. Stefan wasn’t dropped by Katherine doing the same thing in Season 2.

* Is Caroline not drinking vervain?

* Fourth indication that it’s Katherine at the Homecoming Dance: She’s scared shi)less of Klaus. Klaus should know that it’s Katherine as Elena knows Klaus needs Elena’s blood to create hybrids.

* Why didn’t Klaus smell ‘Elena’ to make sure she’s Elena and not Katherine?

* Damon was going to kill Tyler. The plan was to kill Klaus that night so does Damon think that Elena would just forgive Damon for killing Tyler?

* How did Klaus and Mikael not know it was Katherine? I assume Klaus could have suspected, but Mikael it seems is completely clueless.

* Katherine is still AWESOME! “Kaboom.” She’s still by far the most awesome character on this show.

* Mikael calls Katherine “Katherine” instead of “Katerina” like Klaus and Elijah call her.

This is maybe a clue that Mikael only knows of Katherine through research or whatever of Stefan. Which is maybe why Mikael didn’t kill Katherine and is maybe why he didn’t kill Stefan back in 1922.

* The way Stefan takes Damon to the floor has Damon dropping The Stake right next to Klaus’ hand. I assume this was purposefully done by Stefan.

* There seemed no reason other than he didn’t want Klaus dead that Stefan got Damon off of Klaus. Damon was going for the kill blow and Klaus seemed somewhat weakened. Plus, Katherine was there to finish the job if Klaus threw Damon off of him. But not only this, Katherine had vervain-bombed the hybrids there so Damon was actually in no near danger. At the worst, after Klaus was killed Mikael, Stefan, and Damon could fight and kill the rest of the hybrids or they could superspeed to the safety of Elena’s home or whatever where the hybrids aren’t invited in. Also, maybe Katherine was still around and could have helped fight and kill the rest of the hybrids.

So, it seems highly unlikely that the primary goal of Stefan stopping Damon from killing Klaus was to actually save Damon’s life. It’s highly likely that he did it simply because he didn’t want Klaus dead and he knew that Klaus would free him from Klaus’s compulsion.

* Stefan easily holds Damon down on the ground. So, maybe Damon beating on Stefan in 3.08 was because Stefan wasn’t even trying.

* Did Mikael really think that Stefan would be unconscious until after Klaus was killed?

* Wow, Stefan and Klaus seem to love each other. Stefan is VERY emotional when Klaus says that, “[Stefan’s] earned his freedom.” His eyes are watery and he looks pretty choked up. Klaus is clearly looking at Stefan with a huge amount of love.

* Klaus to Stefan: “Thank you, my friend. You no longer have to do as I say. You’re free.”

I want Klaus to remain alive. He’s pretty awesome, now Mikael is dead, he said with Mikael dead he doesn’t need to make more hybrids. He can have his family back. And his relationship with Stefan brings a lot to both characters. Klaus could be like Katherine and be recurring. Both love Stefan and so in future episodes and Seasons those relationships can be further explored. Joseph Morgan seems to love playing the character so will probably come back as a recurring guest star after Season 3 if he’s not still a regular in Season 4.

And in ways, this relationship is the most interesting in The Vampire Diaries .

Sidenote: I saw more emotion and love between Stefan and Klaus in this scene than I did between Elena and Damon in their Ending Scene and Katherine and Stefan in their Ending Scene.

* We don’t know how much Damon heard of Klaus’ speech to Stefan. But he did at least hear Klaus telling them that Stefan’s earned his freedom.

* After Stefan is free, he looks at where Damon was we hear a ‘whoosh’ which greatly implies or states that Damon heard Klaus’ entire speech and Damon knows that Stefan is no longer compelled to do what Klaus says and is now ‘free’.

Klaus smiles after freeing Stefan and when Stefan looks in Damon’s direction and when Stefan turns around to look back at Klaus.

* Stefan after he’s free doesn’t seem to hate Klaus in this scene. Klaus very clearly seems to still want to be BFFs with Stefan.

* Does Stefan regret taking the family – if he already did that – after learning that Klaus will actually free him?

* Elena to Damon: “I don’t understand. Stefan wanted Klaus dead, more than anything. That’s what we were counting on.”

Well, obviously Damon wasn’t as he wanted Mikael to make Stefan incapacitated. And why would Elena think that. Even in 3.03 she saw that apparently Stefan was buddies with Klaus. In 3.05, Stefan didn’t want Klaus making him shut off his humanity but since it was shut off Stefan seems to have been enjoying himself and still seemed to be okay with Klaus. And Stefan was only focused on being freed from Klaus’ compulsion.

Elena seems to say this in a way that implies that she thought or hoped that part of the reason Stefan would want Klaus dead is so that Stefan could be with Elena again.

* Elena asks Damon, “Where’s Katherine?” This question was asked directly after the “Stefan wanted Klaus dead stuff” so perhaps Elena is thinking that maybe Stefan took off with Katherine or is with Katherine.

* Damon to Elena: “We’re never getting Stefan back.”

Damon knows that Stefan is no longer compelled to do what Klaus says. He still seems under the assumption that killing Klaus would de-Ripper Stefan. But Damon says this when Elena is trying to comfort him and is holding his face in her hands.

Elena’s look at Damon is ambiguous. Elena at least knows that it’s possible – though it’d take a long time – to get ‘Elena Stefan’ back.

* Damon to Elena: “You know that,” (Elena looks down, it seems too far down for her to be looking at his lips) don’t you?” (She blinks; her look changes.) (She shakes her head once and then looks back at Damon’s eyes. She pierces her lips together.) (She kinda looks sad for Damon.)

* Elena/Damon : “Then we’ll let him go.” (Damon looks hopeful at Elena seemingly thinking maybe she’ll actually be with Damon now.”

Elena to Damon (resolved?): “Okay?” (Elena is now kinda shaking, seems about to tear up) “We’ll have to let him go.” (Elena nods once.) (Damon nods at Elena.)

Damon of course doesn’t mention to Elena that Stefan is no longer compelled to follow Klaus’ orders.

This is the main reason I cannot support Elena/Damon. . Here we have Damon thinking that Stefan may be Ripper Stefan and Klaus’ buddy forever (or whatever Damon is thinking.) Elena would also likely consider that Stefan didn’t actually want Klaus to die and therefore is choosing to be with Klaus over being with Elena (and Damon if she’s thinking of that). Elena could also consider that Stefan will be Klaus’s buddy forever. And Elena knows that even if Stefan doesn’t want to be with Klaus and he does want to be with Elena that it’d likely take years and a bunch of torturing Stefan for Stefan to merely not have the Ripper bloodlust anymore. We have both seeming to believe that Stefan choose Klaus over them. And Elena is not happy that Stefan is gone to her.

In this episode it seems if Damon did kill Klaus that Elena would be with Stefan or at least would try to work things out with Stefan. It doesn’t seem that if Klaus was killed and Stefan wanted to try to work things out with Elena that she’d still be closer to Damon than she would be to Stefan.

* I don’t think Elena would have kissed Damon. And if she did it’d only be because Stefan is lost to her and she’d be emotionally needy because of that.

* The way Damon says, “Take care of yourself Katherine.” it seems Damon still has feelings for Katherine.

Elena looks at Damon and seems to recognize that apparently Damon still has feelings for Katherine. When Damon looks back at Elena, Elena is not happy that apparently Damon still has feelings for Katherine. Damon turns away and Elena looks sad, but only like for a second.

* Katherine to Stefan: “Klaus will be killed, and we’ll have our freedom. But then Damon will be dead.” etc. Stefan managed to save Damon’s life – albeit at this point he still doesn’t seem to much care if at all care if Elena gets with Damon – and get his freedom from Klaus. And if he wants he can have a very powerful ally in Klaus. Plus, Elena is still alive which means more blood for hybrids.

But given the circumstances, Stefan didn’t need to prevent Klaus’ death to save Damon’s life. And at the end of the episode, Stefan obviously is greatly risking Damon’s life.

* Even Ripper Stefan seems to show more feelings for Katherine than he does for Elena.

* Ending Car Scene: Stefan to Katherine: “You wanted Klaus dead for 500 years. Why would you risk all of that just to save Damon’s life?”

Katherine to Stefan (Kat seems offended): “I wasn’t just trying to save Damon’s life, Stefan. I was trying to save yours.” (Stefan looks Katherine up and down.) “Your humanity.” (No reaction from Stefan.) “Let’s just say I like the old you better.” (That was said at least kinda flirty.)

S to K (brushes that last part off.) (But this whole thing is said in kinda a flirty way; or at least the way Stefan is looking at Katherine): “Nah. Come on, Katherine. You don’t care about anybody but yourself; you never have.”

K to S (said kinda flirty): “You and I both know that that is not true. I loved you.” (Katherine was nodding) (Stefan looks her up and down again.) “I loved Damon too.” (This was said differently and there’re different emotions behind it. Like maybe Katherine is sad about how Stefan would react to that.)

* Katherine/Stefan : When Katherine tells Stefan that “I loved Damon too.”, he closes his eyes, looks away, his tongue pokes out to touch his pierced lips, and seems almost pissed.

Katherine got obvious jealousy out of Ripper Stefan over her past(?) love for Damon. With Elena, Ripper Stefan so far has either found the idea Elena/Damon amusing or has not cared at all if they actually got together.

* Katherine’s looking forward (to herself(?)) and to Stefan: “Humanity is a vampire’s greatest weakness.” (Stefan agrees?) “No matter how easy it is to turn it off, it just keeps trying to fight its way back in.” (Looks at Stefan; seems to look at him with love) (looks Stefan up and down) “Sometimes I let it.”

Rose said that after so many years, vampires cannot turn off their humanity. Katherine tells Stefan differently.

(Katherine seems to get a little sad that apparently Stefan won’t be letting much or any of his humanity back in.)

* Stefan to Katherine (looks at her; spoken quietly): “I can’t let it all back in.” (shakes his head) “I don’t want to.” (turns away and leans back and looks forward) “Not after everything I’ve done.”

K to S (looking at him): “Of course you don’t want to. But if you don’t let yourself feel” (Stefan looks back at Kat) “you won’t be able to do what I need you to do next.”

S to K: “What’s that.”

K to S (said in a seductive way and actually leans towards Stefan): “Get mad.” (Stefan seems intrigued; looks her up and down again.)

* Klaus calls Stefan in the morning so it was possibly Stefan who took the Original Family and not something that Katherine had already done.

* I only see 4 coffins.

* Klaus to Stefan: “I will kill you and everyone you’ve ever met.”
Stefan to Klaus: “You do that and you will never see your family again. I wonder Klaus as someone who’s been one step ahead for a thousand years, were you prepared for this?”

Now, Stefan’s plan here is brilliant and sadistic. Stefan knows that if it can be avoided that Klaus doesn’t want Stefan to die. Stefan knows that Klaus will likely go after those like Damon, Caroline, and Bonnie.

And if Stefan now actually has any feelings about Elena and Damon becoming closer, Klaus is a very good way to punish Elena, Damon, and all who didn’t stop Elena and Damon getting closer.

Stefan can actually afford for Elena and Co. to all die. He’ll still likely have his old buddy Klaus. Rebekah is still able to be alive. And Stefan still has Katherine. If Katherine knew anything about Stefan’s plan – if it wasn’t her own – she’s putting herself at a safe distance but doesn’t seem to mind too much if Damon and the rest of Elena and Co. dies.

For Katherine, though, the best case scenario is for Klaus and Elijah to die. But she’ll probably settle for Elijah dying given that there now seems no way to kill Klaus.

BloodyHell
11-11-11, 07:40 PM
Why wouldn’t Stefan want Damon to know that Stefan prevented Damon from killing Klaus in order to save Damon’s life?

I was a little confused about this one too...I imagine he didn't tell him before he stopped Damon because he didn't have time. And my guess for why he didn't tell him after was a) maybe he feels it is safer to exact his revenge on Klaus alone b) He doesn't want to face Damon or Elena, knowing that he may begin to feel again.


Did Damon know that Katherine was alive?

I think Damon was the only one who knew that Katherine was in town. I think he probably didn't know that Michael had done anything to her until she came back to MF and told him what happened. I'm not sure who concocted the plan to use Katherine in Elena's place. That was good of Katherine to do! It could have been very dangerous.


Damon not telling Elena that Stefan is now free of Klaus’s compulsion is fairly unforgivable.

I watched the scene a couple of times, and I really think that Damon is not aware that Stefan is no longer compelled. I think the "whoosh" sound when Stefan turns and sees that Damon is gone was a music effect, and not meant to be the sound of him leaving. I think that Damon left the instant Klaus showed up and Stefan got off him. Why wouldn't he? Klaus has every reason to kill Damon. I also do not believe that Damon is so selfish as to keep that information from Elena, if he knew.

Even if Damon did hear the part about Stefan getting his freedom, his impression may be that Stefan is as lost to them as he would be if he was still compelled. He had told Damon he wanted to be free so he could leave, and he had apparently betrayed all of them just to do that. Looks pretty bleak from Damon's perspective. But I honestly don't think he heard any of that exchange.


Who does Ripper Stefan love?
He was showing a great deal of emotion for Klaus when Klaus informs that he will free Stefan from his compulsion. He shows by far the most emotion for Klaus.

Actually, he has that emotional expression on his face as soon as he tackles Damon. I don't think he is showing emotion for Klaus. I think he is torn up about the fact that Damon thinks that his brother just betrayed him to save Klaus(even though that couldn't be further from the truth). I imagine the shock and disappointment in Damon's face would be nearly unbearable for Stefan to look at.

Personally, I think Stefan by far shows the most emotion for Damon. Then Elena. Lastly, for Katherine. (I don't even put Klaus in the running, because I think Stefan hates him now) I'm not denying Stefan may still have feelings for Katherine. But I don't think he would die for her like he'd die for Elena or Damon.

I think the fact that he stopped Klaus even though he wants him dead (killing Klaus would have also gotten rid of his compulsion, so killing him would have made more sense. Michael has little interest in Stefan, so Stefan would have been more permanently "free" if he had helped kill Klaus) shows that the only thought that was enough to "make him care" was Damon dying. Not saving Elena, but saving Damon.


Maybe Stefan merely wants to get back a little at Klaus for Klaus making Stefan kill and for Klaus compelling him.

I think what Stefan said was true - Klaus took everything from Stefan: his relationship with Elena, his brother, and most importantly, his purity of heart and actions.



Why didn’t Klaus ask Stefan for a smart-phone picture of Mikael’s dead body?

I think he knew that his compulsion is so complete that if Stefan says he is dead, he is. No picture needed. I'm guessing he didn't ask any suspicious questions because he is arrogant of his control of the situation. Klaus was also prepared for the possibility that Michael was still alive and didn't seem very suprised about that, so that may be another reason why he didn't ask Stefan more questions.


But this is the first time that Elena and Damon have slept together (didn’t have sex, but it’s still a big thing), and so how Elena felt about that would seem to be a very important thing for this episode and after.

Maybe the "sleeping together" scene was more about expressing the trust that is between them now, and the deep friendship, rather than expressing something romantic(although obviously I think there is plenty of romance there also). Unless it was for romantic impact, I don't think it was necessary to show the morning after.


Why would Rebekah actually consider that Elena is her friend?

I also thought this was lame and unlikely. The only defence I can find is that Rebekah may have judged Elena as completely unable to suprise her.(arrogance and overconfidence)


Klaus’s reaction to Mikael stabbing ‘Elena’ could be part not knowing if it was really Elena and part shock that Mikael would kill an innocent person.

Nah. I don't think Klaus suspected it was Katherine. I think he was genuinely shocked and upset that his method of making more hybrids was gone, or so he thought.


It’s highly likely that he did it simply because he didn’t want Klaus dead and he knew that Klaus would free him from Klaus’s compulsion.

Totally disagree. Again, if Klaus had died he would have been freed from compulsion anyway. The only real reason for stopping Damon must be saving Damon's life...I also think it is unlikely that he cares whether Klaus is dead or not, since at the end of the episode, he proves that he is really pissed off at Klaus.


He still seems under the assumption that killing Klaus would de-Ripper Stefan.

I disagree. Damon has stated a number of times that even if Klaus hadn't compelled Stefan, he would still be nearly impossible to "bring back," because Stefan is a ripper and he is off the rails. Being compelled is the giant cherry on top.

------------

My own observations:

- So Katherine has openly admitted to loving Damon now. I wonder why she told him she had never loved him? To get him to stop being such a puppy dog? Just to be hurtful?

- I've read in a number of places online of fans thinking that Damon is "happy" that he possibly has Elena all to himself. I don't see any evidence of that. If anything, I think Damon felt guilt over his failure to bring Stefan back for Elena, and was maybe even more torn up than Elena that Stefan may be lost to them(for his own sake, not Elena's). If there was ANY relief on his face when she said "we'll let him go," I think it was because that was like her giving him permission to not beat himself up. I also don't think that they are unfairly or prematurely giving up on him. They know that Klaus cannot be killed at this point, because the white oak stake has been burnt up. They believe that Stefan saved Klaus' life. He is a ripper, possibly still compelled, and even if he wasn't, he has no desire to stay in MF. He doesn't want to be with them. I'm not sure what their next move to "save" Stefan would or could be at this point. Elena said he needed to start caring, or he would lose her, because she wouldn't love a ghost her whole life. And to her knowledge, he didn't start caring. :s I dunno. I do feel really bad for Stefan, because he is trying to do the right thing. But I can see why Elena and Damon would feel that it is hopeless.

- So, um, did Damon basically MISS KLAUS' HEART?! So the initial problem wasn't that Stefan got Damon off Klaus (although I agree that if Stefan hadn't interfered, Damon would have been able to stake Klaus properly) but that Damon didn't stake him through the heart with the first strike? Do some target practice, Damon!!:err:

About the almost-kiss: I think they did very nearly kiss...Elena looked kind of embarrassed and nervous at what she had been about to do. I find it interesting that after Damon gets off the phone, he just walks away. Yet another reason I think it is unfair and untrue to say that Damon is just happy to have Elena to himself, and not upset about his brother. And another clue that I think when they do kiss, it'll be Elena's move, not Damon's. Damon may flirt(heck, he does it with almost everyone!) but I think he has somewhat resigned himself to sit on the sidelines until he is really wanted this time. (instead of doing most of the pursuing, like with Katherine)

buffyholic
12-11-11, 11:06 AM
I don´t know about you, but I was a bit underwhelmed. And I can´t stress this enough: I don´t want Elena and Damon as a couple, I don´t. I like them being cute and flirting with each other or even Damon pining for her but I don´t want them as a couple. Hopefully, Caroline will talk some sense into them by saying that Stefan did it out of love for Damon because have they forgotten that a dagger to kill an Original can´t be used by a vampire or else the vampire dies too?
Speaking of Caroline, she was awesome once again with the "evil blood slut" comment and her break-up with Tyler was sweet and sad.
Talking about sad, I was so sad about Rebekkak. She opened up to Elena and got daggered by her. I love how Rebekkak has more depth and her scene along with Klaus hearing from Mikael how he was was one of the highlights of the episode.
Katherine was amazing too and I hope she doesn´t disappear again.

Now, for the sad news: the next episode is in January only!:(

BloodyHell
12-11-11, 12:45 PM
Stefan did it out of love for Damon because have they forgotten that a dagger to kill an Original can´t be used by a vampire or else the vampire dies too?

That is just for the silver dagger dipped in white oak ash. That's why Michael got Elena to dagger him. But anyone can use the white oak stake.


I forgot to add in my last post that I loved, LOVED the scene between Michael and Klaus. It was like Klaus went right back to being that young man under his 'fathers' heel. His impulsive, spiteful, hurt reaction was perfect. I was kind of disappointed at how easily Michael was killed(and man does he stink as a vampire hunter, or what?!) but I'm so happy that JM will be sticking around. :xd

Sienna
13-11-11, 10:23 AM
Awesome episode. It hit all the right notes for me. From their almost-perfect plan to the surprising amount of humanity we see from Katherine, to bad-ass Stefan at the end to Damon's very real emotional reaction to failing to retrieve Stefan. I think there will be fans who will never like Damon who will say that he doesn't care but this episode puts a canon-sized ball through that theory.

Damon cares very much and is no doubt deeply conflicted about his feelings for Elena. And Elena looks more than a little conflicted back. But they have both done all they can. For all intents and purposes Klaus is not killable.

SO excited to see where it goes from here and can't believe we have to wait until January.

buffyholic
13-11-11, 12:03 PM
Another thing I loved was how Stefan was talking about their (Damon and Elena) humanity being bad for the plan but in the end, it was Stefan´s humanity that ruined everything.

And yes, Joseph Morgan was very good in the scene between him and Mikael.

Until new episodes, I will rewatch season 1 and hope that my brother gets me season 2 for Christmas.:2party:

BlackCat
14-11-11, 07:47 PM
Maybe the "sleeping together" scene was more about expressing the trust that is between them now, and the deep friendship, rather than expressing something romantic(although obviously I think there is plenty of romance there also). Unless it was for romantic impact, I don't think it was necessary to show the morning after.

I somewhat agree. I think Elena falling asleep with Damon in her bed was more about the trust she now feels towards him and the comfort level that's now exists between them (a big change from where they started). So, there are romantic connotations involved in that, but it's more subtle. And, actually, am I the only one that just assumed that Damon didn't stay the night? I feel like Elena felt safe falling asleep next to Damon partly because she trusted that he would leave eventually. Or, at least, she would be very surprised if he, actually, did stay. So, I, honestly, don't think there was a "morning after". If there was, I do think we would have seen it.

MikeB
16-11-11, 05:38 AM
KingofCretins


The plan that the Fellowship of the Falls concocted was even better than it was when they went after Katherine. They really did cover all their bases. They certainly didn’t cover the Stefan base. The guy that was Klaus’ BFF even before being compelled to turn off his humanity.



BloodyHell


I'm not sure who concocted the plan to use Katherine in Elena's place. That was good of Katherine to do! It could have been very dangerous. I wonder if Stefan even thanked Katherine for that. I assume he heard or saw Mikael kill ‘Elena’. If Mikael had decided to rip out ‘Elena’s’ heart, Katherine would be dead.

My quote: Damon not telling Elena that Stefan is now free of Klaus’s compulsion is fairly unforgivable. Damon at the very least knew that Klaus said that Stefan’s “earned his freedom”. And I don’t consider that they’d be that sloopy with a whoosh sound.


I also do not believe that Damon is so selfish as to keep that information from Elena, if he knew. Damon wants to be with Elena and he’s at least pissed that Stefan saved Klaus’ life.


Even if Damon did hear the part about Stefan getting his freedom, his impression may be that Stefan is as lost to them as he would be if he was still compelled. But Damon doesn’t get to make that determination when it comes to Elena’s feelings and regard for Stefan. Damon tries to get Elena to believe that Stefan is now gone forever.


He had told Damon he wanted to be free so he could leave, and he had apparently betrayed all of them just to do that. Damon at this time wouldn’t know that Stefan was gone. And anyways, Stefan would have been free if Klaus actually died.


Actually, he has that emotional expression on his face as soon as he tackles Damon. It’s nowhere near the emotion he shows for Klaus.


I don't think he is showing emotion for Klaus. The emotions come after Klaus informs Stefan that he is going to free Stefan from Klaus’ compulsion.


I think he is torn up about the fact that Damon thinks that his brother just betrayed him to save Klaus(even though that couldn't be further from the truth). I imagine the shock and disappointment in Damon's face would be nearly unbearable for Stefan to look at. Stefan didn’t even want to tell Damon that he saved Klaus’ life to save Damon’s life.


Personally, I think Stefan by far shows the most emotion for Damon. Stefan in 3.08 told Damon that after Klaus freed Stefan that he was going to leave town. Since 3.01 Stefan hasn’t been showing much emotion towards Damon.


I don't even put Klaus in the running, because I think Stefan hates him now I’m referring to Ripper Stefan. Stefan at the end of 3.09 implied to Katherine that he’s let some humanity in. And of course what Stefan did is just going to put Elena and Co. – ESPECIALLY Damon – in immense danger. Klaus wanted to kill Damon in 3.01, 3.03, and after.


I'm not denying Stefan may still have feelings for Katherine. But I don't think he would die for her like he'd die for Elena or Damon. Ripper Stefan wouldn’t die for Damon or Elena either. Ripper Stefan would have killed Elena. And Ripper Stefan wanted Klaus as his brother. He didn’t seem to much care about Damon at all besides not wanting Damon to die.


I think the fact that he stopped Klaus even though he wants him dead He doesn’t want Klaus dead, especially after 3.03. Stefan merely didn’t want to be compelled to follow Klaus’s orders. And Mikael was much more dangerous to Stefan than Klaus because Stefan knows that Klaus loves Stefan and wants Stefan as his BFF.


the only thought that was enough to "make him care" was Damon dying. Not saving Elena, but saving Damon. Ripper Stefan is not into humans. But again when Stefan stopped Damon, Damon wasn’t actually in any near danger of being killed.


I think what Stefan said was true - Klaus took everything from Stefan: his relationship with Elena, his brother, and most importantly, his purity of heart and actions. Stefan didn’t specify what he meant by “everything”. Klaus saved Damon’s life. It was Damon’s fault for trying to take Stefan from Klaus. Stefan deciding to be Klaus’ wingman is what took away Stefan being able to continue being with Elena. Klaus’s deal was a 10-year bender. Klaus thought that Elena was dead and that Stefan was agreeing to the deal to save Damon. Plus, Klaus was able to bring back memories of their being BFFs and Stefan being in love with Rebekah.


I don't think Klaus suspected it was Katherine. I think he was genuinely shocked and upset that his method of making more hybrids was gone, or so he thought. Well, Klaus couldn’t be 100% sure that it was Katherine and not Elena.


My quote: It’s highly likely that he did it simply because he didn’t want Klaus dead and he knew that Klaus would free him from Klaus’s compulsion.

Totally disagree. Again, if Klaus had died he would have been freed from compulsion anyway. The only real reason for stopping Damon must be saving Damon's life Klaus is dangerous to Damon and can easily kill Damon. I also find it way too convenient for it not to have been on purpose that The Stake landed right near Klaus’ hand.


...I also think it is unlikely that he cares whether Klaus is dead or not, since at the end of the episode, he proves that he is really pissed off at Klaus. Klaus will be going after Elena and Co. and Stefan knows this. Stefan has neither an actual way to kill the Originals nor a way to protect Elena and Co. from Klaus. His threat is that he’ll merely keep the Originals from Klaus.


Damon has stated a number of times that even if Klaus hadn't compelled Stefan, he would still be nearly impossible to "bring back," He tells that to Elena who he’s trying to get with. To Katherine he says that killing Klaus will de-Ripper Stefan. And he seems to believe that in 3.09 as well.


- So Katherine has openly admitted to loving Damon now. I wonder why she told him she had never loved him? To get him to stop being such a puppy dog? Just to be hurtful? I consider it could be her merely trying to get an emotional reaction from Stefan. She wants him to feel. Unless she ‘discovered’ that she loved Damon sometime after 2.01, it makes no sense that she in 2.01 told Damon that she never loved him.


- So, um, did Damon basically MISS KLAUS' HEART?! Klaus turned so that his heart would not be staked.



Sienna


Damon cares very much and is no doubt deeply conflicted about his feelings for Elena. No, he’s not. Damon wants to be with Elena.



buffyholic


Another thing I loved was how Stefan was talking about their (Damon and Elena) humanity being bad for the plan but in the end, it was Stefan´s humanity that ruined everything. Not for Stefan. His buddy Klaus is alive, Mikael is dead, and Stefan is free from having to follow Klaus’ orders.