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View Full Version : Spike and Drusilla: the 100-year honeymoon.



MikeB
09-12-10, 05:48 AM
This relationship tends to get trashed by those that prefer Buffy/Spike, hate Spike, prefer Angel to Spike, and whatever else.

But this relationship is at least still going on in Spike to whatever degree.

Dru still loves Spike and considers him her 'demonmate' or whatever.

The FirstEvil used Drusilla's image with Spike and Spike insulted it by saying it was a poor representation of the real thing. Plus, Spike was reminiscing about his time with Drusilla to FirstEvil 'Heavenly Buffy'.

And Spider who was Spike's somewhat girlfriend in After the Fall would remind him of Drusilla.


Oh, not to mention that after Season 7, Tales of the Vampires : "The Problem with Vampires" was the story of how Dru's ailment came to be and further proved Drusilla and Spike's love for each other (at the least, former love). And later on IDW's 2005 successful Spike vs. Dracula series was done and focused on Spike and Drusilla's relationship.

(Sorry, if this looks like rambling; it kinda is.)

Tranquillity
09-12-10, 09:25 PM
I don't think it gets trashed, I think it gets looked at realisticly, in a way that looks beyond the surface-only romantic rhetoric that often gets heaped on this couple.

I used to think Spike and Dru were 'true love' too but then I saw "Destiny" and re-watched season two of Buffy and quickly came to the conclusion that for Dru, it was always all about Angel.

That's what the show tells us and if the comic is saying something different then, it's either wrong or there is more to the story yet to come.

TimeTravellingBunny
09-12-10, 11:43 PM
I don't think it gets trashed, I think it gets looked at realisticly, in a way that looks beyond the surface-only romantic rhetoric that often gets heaped on this couple.

I used to think Spike and Dru were 'true love' too but then I saw "Destiny" and re-watched season two of Buffy and quickly came to the conclusion that for Dru, it was always all about Angel.

That's what the show tells us and if the comic is saying something different then, it's either wrong or there is more to the story yet to come.
I used to think it was true love for half of the season 2. I grew cold about the time Angelus came back and Dru started flirting with him right in front of Spike. And that was way before I had any idea that there could be any Buffy/Spike on the show. I always noticed they had chemistry, but I didn't think in seasons 2 and 3 that anything would amount out of it (and I wasn't going online so I had no idea about shipping in Buffy fandom).

"Surface-only romantic rhetoric" is a good description of that relationship. It's the same thing I dislike about Bangel, only it took me longer time to see it with Bangel (which I did like for the first 3 seasons). Only I think in Bangel's case, both Buffy and Angel were blinded by their rhetoric and believed in the myth, while in Spike/Dru's case it was probably just Spike. Not that Dru was deceiving Spike, I just I don't think she ever gave it much thought.

Spike and Buffy's dynamic was, to me, always refreshing, as they tended to throw uncomfortable truths into each other's faces. :twak: "You're pathetic. The world is about to be sucked into hell, and you want my help because your girlfriend is big ho?" :thumbup: "Did he play sensitive lad to get you to seduce him? It's a good trick if the girl is thick enough to buy it." :thumbup: Beats "I am a princess" - "Yes you are", "Darling, eat something", and "You are my sweet... Kill her, kill her for me, Spike!" any day, as far as I'm concerned. :)

MikeB
10-12-10, 01:55 AM
Tranquillity


I think it gets looked at realisticly, in a way that looks beyond the surface-only romantic rhetoric that often gets heaped on this couple. You mean that Drusilla immediately fell for William Pratt because of exactly who he is? And that Spike loved/s Drusilla exactly as she is?


I used to think Spike and Dru were 'true love' too but then I saw "Destiny" and re-watched season two of Buffy and quickly came to the conclusion that for Dru, it was always all about Angel. In Season 2, Drusilla knew that Spike was in love with Buffy. And by the time Angelus came along, Spike was handicapped. Besides making sure that Angelus wasn’t re-cursed, she just uses Angelus to her own ends.

And, if it was still “always all about Angel”, why was Drusilla so giddy about having the Judge dust Angel? Why did we never see Drusilla trying to remove Angelus’ curse?

“Destiny” (A 5.08) actually supports Spike/Drusilla. David Fury is a Spike/Dru guy who hates Buffy/Spike. Before in “Fool For Love” (5.07) the flashbacks made possible the idea that Drusilla was still pretty much Angelus’ girl until after Spike killed the Chinese Slayer. And certainly in the flashback scene in the mine, Drusilla is still perhaps more Angelus’ girl than Spike’s given Drusilla’s still dressed closer to Angelus than she is to Spike.

Anyway, what “Destiny” shows us is that after Drusilla brought William home to Angelus and Darla (after William sired his mother and told Dru that it would be the three of them), she was William’s girl for perhaps days or weeks. It’s implied since William assumes that Angelus is going to rape the bride and because William sired his mother that William was perhaps already having sex with others (it’s implied that besides the Immortal that both Darla and Dru were loyal and didn’t cheat).


So, Drusilla goes from not being happy that Angelus isn’t paying attention to her and his ‘head being full of Darla’ (“Darla” (A 2.07)) to going to William and telling him how great he is, siring him immediately, having some fun on the town with him, going to his house where it’s implied that Dru initially thinks they are going to stay in, being upset that William wants to sire his mother and that his siree with be with them both, allowing William to sire his mother, and after William kills his mother at some point Dru brings him back to Angelus and Darla and seems to want approval of William from both of them, to exclusively being with William – who was perhaps already having sex with others – to having sex again with Angelus because Angelus goes to her. Sex that it seems Dru may not have even thought would upset William much. It’s at this time that William tells Angelus that “me and Dru are forever” and Dru seems moved by that. Before this, for all we know, William was f-ing around with women and hanging out with Angelus and only loosely ‘being’ with Drusilla in a relationship sense/

And remember that Angelus is Drusilla’s sire and that Darla was still in 1880 periodically going back to the Master leaving Angelus and Drusilla by themselves. Anyway, it seems from there that Angelus instructs William/Spike and by the time Darla and Dru had sex with the Immortal (1888?) they are paired off as couples though the guys have sex with both women (though never in threesomes). And while in 1898 Angelus is still important to Dru and perhaps she considers him like her father (a father who’s been away for two years), after Spike kills the Chinese Slayer Dru happily goes off with Spike and doesn’t seem to see Angelus again until she showed up in Sunnydale.



TimeTravellingBunny


Angelus came back and Dru started flirting with him right in front of Spike. Which put Spike’s focus back on her. Of course Dru was happy that Angelus was back, but all she did was respond to Angelus’ flirting with her. She never had sex with Angelus in Season 2 according to Marti Noxon (from the DVDs).

Buffy/Angel and Spike/Drusilla are very different.

Angel pretty much preyed on a naïve inexperienced virgin who didn’t have a realistic chance of being with a normal boy. Buffy develops feelings for Angel because he’s a tall, dark, and handsome older guy and he dresses well and he seems to be really into her. And he could be in her world. Angel falls for her because? She’s pretty much a version of Drusilla. She’s this innocent sweet girl who has a supernatural gift and who’s life isn’t fully happy. Or whatever.

Drusilla chooses William because “I could pick the wisest and bravest knight in all the land - and make him mine forever with a kiss.” With Dru’s prescience she sees and knows this darkness within William. “Oh, I see you. A man surrounded by fools who cannot see his strength, his vision, his glory. (beat) That and burning baby fish swimming all around your head.” Drusilla chooses someone who later went on to kill two Slayers.

Why is Spike so into Drusilla? Initially probably because she’s this attractive woman who dresses well who seems really into him and thinks he’s fantastic. Later on it’s probably also because of her power and the qualities she has. She’s pretty much a ‘caricature’ of a woman.

She has hyper-feminine facial features, she’s very slender but with big breasts and hips.
Sight: Woman’s intuition.
She’s hysterical.
She’s insane.


William also seems to want to be with ‘the best of his world’. First that was Cecily, then that was Drusilla, then that was Buffy, then that was Fred, then that was Illyria, and now who knows what.



A few problems with Buffy/Spike:

Buffy never calls Spike her boyfriend and always denies he is whenever someone asks her if he is or tells her he is. She doesn’t get physically with Spike until at the end of “Once More With Feeling” (6.07) with her inner emotions out in the open and then after Spike is able to kill her again. After they have sex she tries to keep their relationship a secret. And the relationship is only found out about because Willow and Dawn see Buffy’s reaction to Spike having sex with Anya. Xander only finds out because after Buffy saves him from Xander murdering him, Spike announces that she was with Buffy. Oh, and when Riley shows up in Season 6 it seems that had he been available to her, Buffy would have gotten with him again. In Season 7 it can’t be ignored that Buffy does go on a date with Robin Wood even though it’s only because Spike’s shown no interest in being with her physically. And she does bask and kiss Angel and brush off her relationship with Spike to Angel and give Angel hope for their being together in the future. And when Spike calls her on kissing Angel, Buffy brushes it off by saying Angel’s gone now mirroring what happens when Buffy comes back to Spike at the end of “As You Were” (6.15). Even in Season 8 Spike perhaps assumes that Buffy’s into Angel and not him so much.

Spike seems to want to be with a literal eternal love. Buffy’s the only mortal he ever has a relationship with in the Buffyverse. Even in After the Fall , his girlfriends are immortals.
Spike never seems to truly love Buffy as she actually is. He doesn’t make the Buffybot to be like her. He at this point wants a bubbly Buffy who’s completely into him including his evil. And of course he wants Buffy to think Angel is “lame”, “bloody stupid” and ‘not attractive’ (the “his hair sticks straight up” part.) In Season 7 Spike seems to want a ‘Heavenly Buffy’ and certainly one that’s completely in love with him and understanding with him. And he doesn’t want Buffy still into Angel.

And what happens in “End of Days” (7.21) and “Chosen” (7.22). Spike sees Buffy basking in the presence of Angel and then kissing him. And whatever else he saw or heard. At the end of “Chosen” (7.22) Spike decides to die instead of leave the Hellmouth to be with her. When he comes back as a ghost he immediately wants to see her, but after actually being able to, he decides against it for some trumped up retarded reason. He then seems to never call or contact her and only shows up years later to save the world.


For whatever Spike/Drusilla faults, they were together over 118 years, and 100 years without Angelus or Darla. And when they arrive in Sunnydale they are not in the happiest time as Drusilla has an ailment that’s perhaps killing her. So, this should be viewed as a lowpoint in their relationship.

And we can’t really know if Spike would have fallen for Buffy had Drusilla not been dying. Or what the dynamic would be if Angelus returned and Spike was still mobile and what it would be if Spike was still mobile and not in love with Buffy. What Angelus tells us is that Dru is feeding and bathing Spike and is having sexual relations with Spike.


In all, my view of Spike/Drusilla includes their relationship before they arrived in Sunnydale. And that Buffy/Spike’s at most few years together isn’t comparable to the century and 2 decades that Drusilla and Spike were together. And that Spike in Hell-LA’s girlfriend Spider pretty much ‘was Drusilla’.

Spike did find the sex with Buffy better than any he’s ever had. But the ‘greatness’ of sex for both of them is probably largely based on who they are to each other. Buffy’s having sex with the immortal enemy that can kill her. Spike’s having sex with the Slayer who most times bests him.


And Buffy and Spike were never really actually girlfriend and boyfriend. They were lovers, friends, confidants, companions maybe, and had some kind of relationship in Season 7. Spike and Drusilla were pretty much husband and wife for at least 98 years.

____________

Having said all of this, I do like the idea of Buffy/Spike, but for now it doesn't seem that there is a long-term reality of it. Spike in After the Fall is shown to still be alive (and immortal it seems) in the time of flying cars. And for now it still doesn't seem that Spike can be with a Buffy who still loves Angel.

And they didn't have Spike go back to Buffy after "Chosen" (7.22) until years later and only because he was there to help save the world.


So, while ultimately it'd be great if William Pratt, Anne Pratt, Joyce Summers, Buffy Summers, and perhaps somehow Drusilla and her family could be in Heaven together, for now I don't see this happening.


And I feel bad for Drusilla and others should as well. This is a woman who should have gone to Heaven when she died. Angel's done nothing to try to help redeem her even when he had the ear of the Powers That Be and later had power from Wolfram and Hart. And perhaps Spike is only lost to her because he was chipped and had to depend on the Scoobies and Buffy to survive and by the time she came back to him, he was changed enough that he couldn't readily kill people to feed on them and couldn't kill Buffy because of his growing feelings for her. So, this woman who wanted to be a nun is left to be pretty much only for eternity? In ways, it'd be nice if she really did go to Heaven and was reunited with her family and she stayed there. As I don't really think it's exactly very likely that they are going to get Spike and her back together on a permanent basis.

MikeB
23-01-11, 01:53 AM
For the mods: Transferred part of a post from the "Lies My Parents Told Me" thread http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/showpost.php?p=539291&postcount=44 to here because it pretty exclusively deals with Spike/Dru stuff (and versus Buffy/Spike stuff) and not the episode.




TimeTravellingBunny


Spike tolerated Dru sleeping with Angelus early on, and cheating on him with the Immortal, he still wanted her after she was messing around with Angelus in S2 (whether they were sleeping together or not, in Spike's words: "I want Dru back. I want it like it was before he came back. The way she acts around him...") and after she left him for some goofy looking demons. Spike wanted Drusilla to himself. He simply loved her enough and wanted to be with her enough that her still being with Angel for 18 years wasn’t a deal-breaker and even her sleeping around with a Chaos Demon wasn’t. He still though wanted her to himself, but in Season 2 Spike had fell in love with Buffy.


Spike was OK with spending the nights cuddling (at least) with Buffy after he saw her kiss Angel. And then decided to die instead of be with Buffy and then never went back to Buffy until years later he went back to her in order to save the world.


I'm sure that they'd both love to have their women all to themselves if they could have it that way, but things don't always work out that way. Spike’s less tolerant. Angel in “Chosen” (7.22) and in Season 8 tries to get with Buffy even though he knows that she’s into Spike. Spike after seeing that Buffy still has feelings for Angel never went back to her. And in fact his next girlfriend after Buffy he knew was fully in love with him. Spike wants that. He had it with Drusilla, Harmony, the Buffybot, and Spider.


Spike clearly stopped loving Drusilla by the time of "Crush", when he was ready to kill her just to have Buffy promise him that he had a chance with her. Drusilla laughed that off and she knows him well and she has prescience. What she thought is that he could have killed both of them though.

Drusilla is an image that the First Evil uses with Spike, and is a central part of his trigger. Spike in “Destiny” (A 5.08) still had a beef with Angel over the fact that Angel had sex with Drusilla after William told him that he considered Dru his “destiny”. And his post-Buffy girlfriend – and the comics are canon and so count – would remind him of Drusilla.


He is certainly not going to be interested in her now, as a souled champion with no interest in the lifestyle he had with Dru. He could make her better, who knows.


And I doubt that Dru would be interested in a do-gooder Spike. She would want him to be evil again, and there's no chance of that happening. We don’t know.


My quote: Spike/Dru was a far more complete and lasting relationship than Buffy/Spike.

Spike admitted in "End of Days" that he had never been that close to anyone as he was with Buffy that night when they were just talking and cuddling in bed. So, he realized by that point that, for those 100 years they were together, he and Dru were never really all that close. And then Buffy went and was basking in Angel’s presence, kissed him, told Angel that Spike wasn’t her boyfriend, tells Angel that she doesn’t see a long-term future with Spike, and gives Angel hope that maybe one day she’ll decide to be with Angel.

What happened after Spike killed the Chinese Slayer? Drusilla and he painted towns red across the world and were pretty much on a 98-year honeymoon.


Spike and Buffy haven't had a complete relationship, but they could if they got a chance to have a second go. Spike and Drusilla were ‘two against the world’. Not sure if Buffy and he could ever have that. Besides, Buffy doesn’t know Spike like Drusilla does.

And here’s perhaps the main thing that makes me support Spike/Drusilla above Buffy/Spike. Drusilla loves him because he’s William Pratt. Buffy loves him because he’s Spike. Buffy got too tried and annoyed of “William” in Season 7 and made him turn into “Spike”. But as they actually show in “Lies My Parents Told Me” (7.17), “Spike” is a costume and a persona, not who he really is.


Spike and Dru had all they could have and it was severely lacking. Spike/Drusilla is the most full and lasting relationship in the Buffyverse. And perhaps only the love between Simon and River Tam was stronger in the Whedonverse.

And if Drusilla never had that mystical ailment, they’d likely still be together in the Buffyverse.

Here’s what happened:

Dru gets an ailment and they go to Sunnydale to try to cure it. Drusilla is dying at this time. Drusilla is a little too needy about her wanting Spike to kill Buffy. She could already suspect that he’s going to fall for her.
Spike sees Buffy, hears she’s with Angel, and sees her sexually and he’s at the least attracted to her.
Spike would have killed Buffy were not for Joyce.
Spike now sees Buffy being a Slayer and the scene reads like he’s watching porn and rewinding to the Money Shot. Dru comes to him seemingly concerned and asks Spike, “Do you love my insides, the parts you can’t see?” She’s already concerned about Spike’s feelings for Buffy.
They would have killed Angel were not for Kendra and the others.
Spike is now crippled.
Angelus is back when Spike is crippled and Drusilla suspects or knows that Spike is in love with Buffy.
Angelus tries to send the world to hell and Spike would rather be on Earth. He teams up with Buffy to save the world.
Spike is chipped. This is the only reason he realizes he wants to be with Buffy. And the chip is the only reason why he was shocked and horrified by the sight of Dru killing.

And yet after all of this it’s shown in Angel that Dru is Spike’s girl. And her exit from the TV Buffyverse comes after Spike chooses Buffy over her.

So, that is a lot of stuff and events that leads to the breakup of Spike/Dru.


Buffy/Spike:

Spike tries to kill her multiple times, betrays her to Adam, etc. Buffy is right to be shocked and surprised when she finds out that Spike’s in love with her. She responds to this news by revoking his ability to be in her house. So while she didn’t bother to do that when he could walk in and kill people, she does to make sure he knows she doesn’t want to be with him. She dies instead of Dawn. In Season 6, Spike becomes so frustrated by her that he demands that she stay away from him until she decides she’s going to sleep with him. Buffy keeps her relationship with Spike a secret. And Buffy never in the Buffyverse tells anyone that Spike is her boyfriend and denies it every time she’s ever asked. Buffy in the scene when Xander finds out that Buffy was having sex with Spike focuses on Xander’s reaction to the news and not Spike’s feelings. Buffy reacts this way after telling Spike she doesn’t feel anything real for him and to move on. In “Seeing Red” (6.19), Buffy still refuses to tell him she loves him and only grudgingly admits that she has feelings for him. Buffy after the attempted rape Buffy makes Spike believe that he has to leave town and get a soul. Season 7 I already mentioned the “End of Days”/“Chosen” stuff.

So, I don’t see how Spike/Drusilla was “severely lacking” compared to the other relationships in the ‘verse.


My quote: And if Spike were never chipped, he’d most likely have killed Buffy.

Yes, so? If William hadn't been so sad and desperate that day when Cecily rejected him and hadn't happened to just run across Dru, Darla and Angelus, he never would've had any relationship with Dru. William seems to already fall a little bit for Drusilla – even if it is because she tells him he’s so special and great – and her being a vampire isn’t a turnoff and he even comes off as seeming to want to be a vampire.

And certainly he’s madly in love with Dru after being a vampire and is for at least 120 years.

With Buffy, were not for all the circumstances I listed earlier, he would have killed her.

Jessica M.C.
22-02-11, 10:46 PM
I liked Spike's and Dru's relationship. Like James Marstars said (sorry can't remember which interview) that there was something alluring about a bad boy who is so good to his girlfriend, which doesn't happen, ever. Spike was always 'William' with Dru. He was romantic and wanted to make her happy. Dru I don't know if she truly cared. She just needed someone to take care of her. But i think she did love him, in a way at least. She needed him to take care of her, like a child. When she grew up (was cured) She didn't need him anymore she got fed up with his sorry @ss, when Buffy kicked his butt, and he was all mopey.

TimeTravellingBunny
22-02-11, 10:57 PM
I liked Spike's and Dru's relationship. Like James Marstars said (sorry can't remember which interview) that there was something alluring about a bad boy who is so good to his girlfriend, which doesn't happen, ever. Spike was always 'William' with Dru. He was romantic and wanted to make her happy. Dru I don't know if she truly cared. She just needed someone to take care of her. But i think she did love him, in a way at least. She needed him to take care of her, like a child. When she grew up (was cured) She didn't need him anymore she got fed up with his sorry @ss, when Buffy kicked his butt, and he was all mopey.
How was he 'mopey'? Spike wasn't mopey in season 2. The first time he was mopey was in "Lover's Walk". After "What's My Line" he was just in wheelchair. Drusilla was still acting like a child around him, and she wasn't fed up with him at all. Things only changed when Angelus came back, and Dru was very happy to have him back, especially since he wasn't in a wheelchair and was all wonderfully evil again. And she seemed to really enjoy having boys 'fight' over her and had a lot of fun flirting with Angelus right in front of Spike, because, well, that's Dru for you. She only seemed to have a problem with Spike when he teamed up with Buffy and ruined her and Angel's world-destroying plan.

MikeB
23-02-11, 12:27 AM
Spike was mopey in the beginning of "Surprise" (2.13); he wanted to leave Sunnydale but Dru was insisting on staying. So, he was at least mopey for a little bit.

_______________

I think calling Dru a "child" in Season 2 is too strong. She's certainly not acting like a child in Angel season 2 and in "Crush" (5.14).

Besides still playing with dolls and pouting, how is she really acting like a child?


Anyway, I'd like to see Spike/Dru in Season 9 though that's probably unlikely.

TimeTravellingBunny
23-02-11, 01:21 AM
I think calling Dru a "child" in Season 2 is too strong. She's certainly not acting like a child in Angel season 2 and in "Crush" (5.14).

Besides still playing with dolls and pouting, how is she really acting like a child?

"Surprise", some 13-14 minutes in, "Can I open it? Can I open it? Oooooo!" She has those little little-girl moments.

Or before in "Lie to Me", when she's crying and whining about her bird, deflecting Spike's attention after he's just asked her about her meeting with Angel, and she makes Spike say "oh sorry baby, I'm a bad rude man, I just don't like you going out, you're weak..." She's like a manipulative child in that scene.

Jessica M.C.
23-02-11, 08:59 PM
I think I was saying he was mopey after they left Sunnydale, so Dru dumped him, for a slimy demon.

TimeTravellingBunny
23-02-11, 11:17 PM
I think I was saying he was mopey after they left Sunnydale, so Dru dumped him, for a slimy demon.
Well, you said:


When she grew up (was cured) She didn't need him anymore she got fed up with his sorry @ss, when Buffy kicked his butt, and he was all mopey.
That seemed to suggest that she got fed up with him after "What's My Line 2", which was the last time Buffy kicked his butt until "The Harsh Light of Day" in season 4 (and was also when Dru got cured).

Jessica M.C.
25-02-11, 07:40 PM
Sorry, I can be miss leading some times :) I think I missed something in there when I was writing the first one:)

MikeB
01-03-11, 01:01 AM
"Surprise", some 13-14 minutes in, "Can I open it? Can I open it? Oooooo!" She has those little little-girl moments.

Or before in "Lie to Me", when she's crying and whining about her bird, deflecting Spike's attention after he's just asked her about her meeting with Angel, and she makes Spike say "oh sorry baby, I'm a bad rude man, I just don't like you going out, you're weak..." She's like a manipulative child in that scene. "Surprise" (2.13) is not much different to a woman being excited by massive spending on jewelry or whatever.

In "Lie to Me" (2.07) she's being a 'woman'.


Besides still playing with dolls -- which some older women do --, Dru doesn't act like a child.

I will say though that she obviously doesn't act like she's about 160 (including her human years). :)

HisMRS
01-03-11, 03:42 AM
I really don't like Drusilla, but I liked Spike the most in Season 2, when he was with Dru and they had this funny, crazy relationship.

Moscow Watcher
11-11-11, 05:11 PM
Spike/Dru in season 2 were fascinating. Pity Juliet couldn't appear in "Lovers Walk". I still hope that Dru will appear in Buffy comics and Joss will write their joint scenes again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jenny Frison cover art Spike/Dru cover sketch (pencils)
http://cadencecomicart.com/art2.php?page=12337

sueworld
11-11-11, 07:06 PM
I love Dru, but (and I know this is rather selfish of me) but I'm sort of pleased she didn't appear in Lovers walk as It gave JM the opportunity to take centre stage and catch the writers eyes, thus getting him added to the cast in season 4.

Moscow Watcher
11-11-11, 08:58 PM
You may be right about JM getting the opportunity, Sue. Then again, maybe Spike's scenes with Dru would have been so powerful and heartbreaking that Joss would invite him into the regular cast in season 4 all the same.

MikeB
26-03-12, 09:25 AM
Well, considering how Dru is so far in Angel and Faith and how it seems she may be in the Dru mini-series, unless Buffy/Spike is endgame and Buffy and Spike are immortal together or end up in Heaven together, I see future Spike/Dru as a possibility.


sueworld


I love Dru, but (and I know this is rather selfish of me) but I'm sort of pleased she didn't appear in Lovers walk as It gave JM the opportunity to take centre stage and catch the writers eyes, thus getting him added to the cast in season 4. This is a ‘production thing’, but I never believed Joss in this.

Spike became the most popular character in the Buffyverse pretty much starting in “School Hard” (2.03). The other actors liked him, the writers liked-to-loved him. SMG made it known to the press that she wanted Spike as Buffy’s new boyfriend. SMG had wanted James in Season 3.

And it’s not as if James suddenly displayed new talent or chemistry with the other actors in “Lovers Walk” (3.08).

______

The only difference that Juliet Landau not being available resulted in is that Spike wasn’t in Season 3 much and that he was with Harmony Kendall in Season 4 instead of being with Dru.

MikeB
31-12-12, 09:44 AM
From the BtVS S9 News Thread:

TimeTravellingBunny


I was never that convinced that Drusilla was in love with Spike, or that she's capable of being in love at all, but in rewatches I've came around to think that she was, in her own way. I'm sure she would have said she loved him, but I don't think she is generally capable of that level of commitment and devotion that would come close to his love for her. This is beyond silly. Spike and Drusilla were pretty much on a honeymoon for 98 years. It’s easily argued that aside from Simon and River Tam’s love, commitment, and devotion to each other, Drusilla’s love, commitment, and devotion to Spike is the strongest in the Whedonverse. And it seems you’ve haven’t read Tales of the Vampires : “The Problem With Vampires”. If Drusilla didn’t love Spike, then no one’s loved anyone in the Buffyverse.

Stoney
31-12-12, 03:56 PM
I would have to agree with TTB. Personally speaking I think Dru cares considerably more about Angel and the way that she behaves when Spike is in the wheelchair and Angelus returns shows that she is incapable of offering him what he gives to her or playing a whole half of what he wants them to mean to each other. I think the analysis that she isn't generally capable of that as TTB says is bang on but she is more able/willing to offer something closer to Angel than Spike.

Vampire in Rug
31-12-12, 05:41 PM
I believe that Spike and Drusilla loved each other very deeply. I do think that perhaps it's possible that Spike loved her MORE than she loved him which is something that happens in many couples, but I have no doubt that Drusilla loved Spike intensely.

That said, I don't agree with Mike's assertion that the love between Spike and Dru was more real and legitimate than the love between other characters in the Buffyverse.

I also think that when Mike talks about "commitment", he forgets that Drusilla has the worst track record of any character when it comes to fidelity.

TimeTravellingBunny
31-12-12, 06:09 PM
From the BtVS S9 News Thread:

TimeTravellingBunny

This is beyond silly. Spike and Drusilla were pretty much on a honeymoon for 98 years. It’s easily argued that aside from Simon and River Tam’s love, commitment, and devotion to each other, Drusilla’s love, commitment, and devotion to Spike is the strongest in the Whedonverse. And it seems you’ve haven’t read Tales of the Vampires : “Paint the Town Red.” If Drusilla didn’t love Spike, then no one’s loved anyone in the Buffyverse.
Funny that. When I think of "love, commitment and devotion", I tend to think of someone who doesn't cheat on their partner (which Drusilla constantly does), who cares about their partner's feelings and wouldn't gleefully flirt with someone else in front of their partner while he's disabled and allow his rival to mock him (which Drusilla definitely did), and who is ready to risk a lot and sacrifice a lot for their partner's well-being (which Drusilla may be ready to do... but there's no evidence for it).

If they were on a 98-year long "honeymoon", well, what does it say that she cheated on him repeatedly during the "honeymoon"... Besides, I tend to think that real devotion is shown when things aren't going smoothly. The moment that Spike was in the wheelchair and couldn't be the Big Bad Boss of the vampire gang the way healthy Angelus could, Drusilla's "devotion" plummeted.

I don't doubt that she loved him, but commitment and devotion really aren't Drusilla's strengths by any stretch of the imagination.

I would have to agree with TTB. Personally speaking I think Dru cares considerably more about Angel and the way that she behaves when Spike is in the wheelchair and Angelus returns shows that she is incapable of offering him what he gives to her or playing a whole half of what he wants them to mean to each other. I think the analysis that she isn't generally capable of that as TTB says is bang on but she is more able/willing to offer something closer to Angel than Spike.
I wouldn't go that far. There's no evidence that she cares for Angel more than for Spike (but there's no evidence for the opposite, either). She really enjoyed "boys fighting over her", and Angel was at a considerable advantage due to Spike being in a wheelchair. I doubt that she'd ever be faithful to Angel, either, or anyone else. It's not really something that she concerns herself with. And she's too self-centered and childish to care that much if her behavior is hurting her partner.

Stoney
31-12-12, 06:47 PM
I believe that Spike and Drusilla loved each other very deeply....

I also think that when Mike talks about "commitment", he forgets that Drusilla has the worst track record of any character when it comes to fidelity.

Well that is the thing for me personally, I don't think someone does love someone deeply if they cuckold them constantly.


Funny that. When I think of "love, commitment and devotion", I tend to think of someone who doesn't cheat on their partner (which Drusilla constantly does), who cares about their partner's feelings and wouldn't gleefully flirt with someone else in front of their partner while he's disabled and allow his rival to mock him (which Drusilla definitely did), and who is ready to risk a lot and sacrifice a lot for their partner's well-being (which Drusilla may be ready to do... but there's no evidence for it).

If they were on a 98-year long "honeymoon", well, what does it say that she cheated on him repeatedly during the "honeymoon"... Besides, I tend to think that real devotion is shown when things aren't going smoothly. The moment that Spike was in the wheelchair and couldn't be the Big Bad Boss of the vampire gang the way healthy Angelus could, Drusilla's "devotion" plummeted.

All of this.


I don't doubt that she loved him, but commitment and devotion really aren't Drusilla's strengths by any stretch of the imagination.

I struggle to see love because of the previous points. I accept that she loved him as much as she was able I suppose.


I wouldn't go that far. There's no evidence that she cares for Angel more than for Spike (but there's no evidence for the opposite, either). She really enjoyed "boys fighting over her", and Angel was at a considerable advantage due to Spike being in a wheelchair. I doubt that she'd ever be faithful to Angel, either, or anyone else. It's not really something that she concerns herself with. And she's too self-centered and childish to care that much if her behavior is hurting her partner.

I suppose that runs true, we don't see her as faithfully devoted to Angel and her appearing to choose him when Spike is unavailable isn't a complete picture it only illustrates, as you say, her selfish/childish side as she doesn't care about how it is making Spike feel. Another thing for me which shows it to not be a committed/caring/passionate love but a shallow self indulgent 'love'. Again, I go with the notion of what she is capable of.

kana
31-12-12, 07:14 PM
As I said on my thread about Dru and Angelus, I believe love is subjective. Or to put it another way, you cannot separate the love from the lover.

I've always felt, whether it be romantic or otherwise, that love means different things to different people. It's completely dependent on the values one hold and what your philosophy on love is.

Because we can never truly know how someone else feels, it's pretty arrogant in my opinion to try and force one's idea of love onto someone else.

In the case of Dru, what she felt for Spike may be her idea of love, but not someone else's. So when we say "That's not love" or "That is love" what we are really talking about is how the behaviour we observe corresponds to our idea of love or the values and actions we would associate with love.


Funny that. When I think of "love, commitment and devotion", I tend to think of someone who doesn't cheat on their partner (which Drusilla constantly does), who cares about their partner's feelings and wouldn't gleefully flirt with someone else in front of their partner while he's disabled and allow his rival to mock him (which Drusilla definitely did), and who is ready to risk a lot and sacrifice a lot for their partner's well-being (which Drusilla may be ready to do... but there's no evidence for it).

If they were on a 98-year long "honeymoon", well, what does it say that she cheated on him repeatedly during the "honeymoon"... Besides, I tend to think that real devotion is shown when things aren't going smoothly. The moment that Spike was in the wheelchair and couldn't be the Big Bad Boss of the vampire gang the way healthy Angelus could, Drusilla's "devotion" plummeted.

I don't doubt that she loved him, but commitment and devotion really aren't Drusilla's strengths by any stretch of the imagination

This is the reason many people do doubt how much she loved him, because most people don't associate cheating, the disregard of one's partner's feelings or breaking up when she doesn't totally get her way. It's certainly not how I'd display love but hey, people are different. Who am I to force my personal values on anyone else?

Gemini9857
31-12-12, 10:02 PM
This is the reason many people do doubt how much she loved him, because most people don't associate cheating, the disregard of one's partner's feelings or breaking up when she doesn't totally get her way. It's certainly not how I'd display love but hey, people are different. Who am I to force my personal values on anyone else?
Drusilla isn't a person. She's a vampire and I think it's like her values are a bit different now than they were when she was human. I'm not sure that she's going to view cheating in the same way as everyone else. It's been implied that both Spike and Angel committed numerous rapes and I think it's likely that neither Drusilla or Darla cared. Drusilla may have not had a problem cheating on Spike because she wasn't bothered if he slept with someone else.

In general I think vampires are capable of love, but that they don't love people in the same way that normal people do. Spike wasn't able to love Buffy in a healthy way until he got his soul back and I don't think he was ever able to have love Drusilla in a healthy way either or have what most people who view as a good relationship with her because they were both soulless demons.

It was established the Drusilla could see the future sometimes and I think it's therefore pretty likely that the real reason she broke it off with Spike is that she knew he was going to fall in love with Buffy. I don't think Spike was already in love with Buffy at the end of Season 2, I think Drusilla just saw it in a vision. In "Crush" she's not all that surprised that he's fallen in love with her and even says "I knew before you did. I knew you loved the Slayer." I think it's possible that Spike would have gone back for the Gem of Amara and ended up being captured by The Initiative, even if he had still been with Drusilla and he would have ended up in exactly the same situation and fallen in love with Buffy.

MikeB
28-01-13, 05:27 AM
All caught up


* Even in the comics, we still don’t get much information on her family or family life. If anything, Drusilla misses her family and she would have preferred that they had not been killed. The Fang Gang is a substitute for her human family. Anyway, she got along fine when she was with Spike for 100 years without Angel and Darla being around.

__________________

* Spike is ‘taken’ with Dru after she tells him how fantastic he is and that others simply didn’t see it.

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* Drusilla was fully faithful to Spike for 98 years. That’s literally an otherworldly level of commitment.




Stoney


Personally speaking I think Dru cares considerably more about Angel […] She had no problem with the idea of killing Angel. If the IDW Spike miniseries stuff is canon, Drusilla was eager to marry even a souled Spike. No matter what is actually canon, it’s canon that Drusilla loves Spike more than she loves Angel.


[…] and the way that she behaves when Spike is in the wheelchair and Angelus returns shows that she is incapable of offering him what he gives to her or playing a whole half of what he wants them to mean to each other. Huh? I don’t even know what you’re discussing.


she is more able/willing to offer something closer to Angel than Spike. Huh? Again, I don’t know you’re discussing.

________________________________________________


shows it to not be a committed/caring/passionate love but a shallow self indulgent 'love' After he’s wheelchair-bound, she was bathing, dressing, feeding, and continuing to have sexual relations with him. How is this not caring and how is this “shallow self-indulgence”?



TimeTravellingBunny


who is ready to risk a lot and sacrifice a lot for their partner's well-being (which Drusilla may be ready to do... but there's no evidence for it). Well, Spike and Dru : “Paint the Town Red” is still perhaps canon.


If they were on a 98-year long "honeymoon", well, what does it say that she cheated on him repeatedly during the "honeymoon"... This didn’t happen from 1898-1998.


I don't doubt that she loved him, but commitment and devotion really aren't Drusilla's strengths by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you only think this because you consider that Dru cheated on Spike from 1898-1998 even though there’s no mention of it? If not, it’s easy to compare Spike/Dru favorably with most of the major relationships in the Buffyverse.


And she's too self-centered and childish to care that much if her behavior is hurting her partner. I guess it depends on what you mean by “that much”. The stuff in 1998 and after was because Spike was in love with Buffy.

Stoney
28-01-13, 10:10 AM
[…] and the way that she behaves when Spike is in the wheelchair and Angelus returns shows that she is incapable of offering him what he gives to her or playing a whole half of what he wants them to mean to each other.
Huh? I don’t even know what you’re discussing.

I'm discussing how Dru treats Spike. Spike offers Dru a level of love and devotion that I don't think she offer him or perhaps is even capable of. Spike wants them to mean everything to each other and Dru cuckolds him throughout their relationship making it clear to him (as we see in flashbacks) that she will never just be his. He thinks she is his destiny and Angelus shows him that isn't how it works with a very willing Dru. I think she is probably the most unfaithful, that we see, of all Buffyverse characters.

When he was wheelchair bound she flirted with Angelus in front of him constantly and didn't defend him from Angelus' cruel jibes or deny the taunts that basically said that Angelus was going to take care of her 'needs' whilst Spike was incapacitated and couldn't. But you are right, in Passions I forgot that Angelus does refer to her carrying him around and bathing him, just after she offers him a dog to eat, hmmm. The overall balance still feels somewhat callous to me but ymmv.

TimeTravellingBunny
28-01-13, 01:50 PM
When he was wheelchair bound she flirted with Angelus in front of him constantly and didn't defend him from Angelus' cruel jibes or deny the taunts that basically said that Angelus was going to take care of her 'needs' whilst Spike was incapacitated and couldn't. But you are right, in Passions I forgot that Angelus does refer to her carrying him around and bathing him, just after she offers him a dog to eat, hmmm. The overall balance still feels somewhat callous to me but ymmv.
Buffyverse vampires, at least the soulless ones, consider drinking animal's blood to be demeaning, in addition to the fact that they like drinking human blood much more. So Dru offering Spike a dog to eat isn't exactly an example of her being considerate to him - more like the opposite, another reminder he can't go out and hunt. When she was ill and weak he brought her humans to eat (Sheila in School Hard). So that's another contrast between the way she treats him when he's in a helpless position and the way he treated her in a similar situation. She also chuckled and told him she called the puppy "Sunshine". That's like, in human terms, giving your ill boyfriend a rat to eat and calling it "Poison".

MikeB
20-02-13, 05:08 AM
* There is no indication that Dru cheated on Spike from 1898 – 1999 (the summer after BtVS S2).

And this thread is specifically titled “Spike and Drusilla: the 100 year honeymoon.”

I assume she was with both Spike and Angel from 1880 to 1896 at least. She had sex with the Immortal. But the post-BtVS S2 stuff is because Spike was in love with Buffy and always thinking about her, he “taste[d] like ashes” and she “ha[d] to get her pleasure” elsewhere because obviously she wasn’t getting it from Spike. I hardly call that cheating. If one’s spouse or boyfriend is constantly thinking about someone else, is in love with that someone else, and one is not getting pleasure from that spouse or boyfriend, there’s very little wrong with having sex with others. As-is, we know of the Chaos Demon. There was a fungus demon later on after “Lovers Walk” (3.08).


* I take as a given that Drusilla at-latest in “Halloween” (2.06) knew that Spike was ‘into’ Buffy. And I take as a given that that’s the main reason she allowed Angel’s flirting – to get Spike’s focus on her instead of on Buffy.


* Although we don’t know if it’s still canon – it used to be – in Spike and Dru : “Paint the Town Red”, Drusilla does something extraordinary for Spike.


* Also, we have no flashbacks from post Mine Shaft scene in 1880 to 1896, we have one flashback in 1898, one in 1900, one from the 1950s of them in Italy, one in 1970 or whenever that time when he first met Pearl and Nash , and one in 1997 when in Prague when Drusilla was given that magical illness.

1997 had them in a relatively bad place given Drusilla was dying; yet aside from James and Elizabeth (the vampire couple from “Heartthrob” (A 3.01), even in 1997 Spike and Dru is the most lovey dovey couple in the Whedonverse.


* Calling Drusilla more unfaithful than Angel and Spike is simply inaccurate unless one doesn’t count rapes as cheating and/or unless one doesn’t consider that Angel was ever in a relationship with Darla. For timeline, Angel was with Drusilla from 1860 to 1880 and probably from 1880 to 1896. So, by timeline, Angel is more unfaithful than Drusilla.


* There’s also no indication that Dru didn’t feed Spike humans.

* After Spike refuses to eat Sunshine, Drusilla has the dog as pretty much her new Miss Edith. And, if anything, probably Spike is the one who simply left the dog in the mansion after leaving in “Becoming Part II” (2.22).

So, I consider it simply inaccurate to consider that offering Spike that dog was somehow equivalent to offering Spike a rat to eat or whatever.

MikeB
16-09-13, 06:13 AM
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,290098,00.html

I'm not sure where else to put this, but I just read this again and it's interesting how much of this 'off hand' stuff from James Marsters and Juliet Landau actually became canon.

This interview was done on October 31, 1997 and therefore likely less than half of BtVS S2 had been shot at this point.


EW: Who were you in previous lives?
DRU: I was a lady. I had ribbons and servants and all sorts of wonderful friends. Later on I ate them all. In flashbacks, Drusilla's family is presented as well off, although we never see or hear of the family having servants.


SPIKE: I don't like to talk about it. I was human. That's embarrassing enough. "Fool For Love" (5.07), etc. shows that Spike much prefers being a vampire to being human.


EW: How old are you?
SPIKE: Dru's secretive about her age — I gotta be 150 by now. We never learn at what age Dru was sired. In the show at this time, Spike is presented as being sired just under 200 years before. His real age -- including human years -- is 142 at this time.


EW: How did you meet?
DRU: I made my little Spike ... didn't I, love?
SPIKE: She did. Pulled me right off the street. The moment I saw my Dru, I knew I'd love her 'til I died — which I did about three minutes later. At the time, Spike calls Angel his "sire", so it's perhaps assumed Angel sired Spike. Turns out Dru sire Spike in an alleyway around 3 minutes after she formally 'meets' Spike.


EW: Spike, you've made some disparaging remarks about Anne Rice — did you read Interview With the Vampire?
SPIKE: Didn't read it, but we liked the flick. What was all the rumpus about Tommy Cruise as a vampire? He was a lot better than Gary I-have-crossed-oceans-of-time-to-be-with-you Oldman. Now, that flick was a wash. There's none of us vampires that poncey. Perhaps a stretch, but Buffy in "Buffy vs. Dracula" (5.01) says she's met more than one pimply vampire who's claimed he's Lestat. Spike isn't impressed by Dracula and actually has a bit of a rivalry with him. And Dracula isn't presented as he is in Copolla's movie.


EW: Do you collect anything, Spike?
SPIKE: It'll sound corny, but I'd have to say I collect memories. A long, interesting life with happy memories is better than any possession. I remember one of my favorite times, me and Dru were slaughtering this orphanage ... We find out in AtS s5 that Spike had slaughtered an orphanage, albeit Dru wasn't mentioned as participating in that.

_____________________________

I'm disappointed that we still don't know what from IDW is canon. I'd like to consider Juliet Landau's Drusilla Issues and the Spike/Dru stuff in the IDW Spike miniseries are canon. I'd like to think Spider is canon (largely because she's reminds me of Dru). But we still don't know.

I also like to consider the James Marsters penned Spike and Dru : "Paint the Town Red" is still canon. As personal canon, I like Spike and Dru : "The Queen of Hearts" and the Spike vs. Dracula miniseries and nothing from those contradicts anything in canon.

And I hope Juliet Landau will eventually finish writing the Dark Horse Drusilla miniseries.

If Drusilla becomes less evil, I consider Spike/Drusilla is still possible especially since he essentially hasn't pursued Buffy since pretty much having her stay in the basement and sleep with him on his roll away bed thingy.

MikeB
03-04-15, 12:59 AM
I found a Joss Whedon wrote implying that he considered Spike and Dru : “Paint the Town Red” to be canon. It’s a quote in an advertising page (advertising Spike and Dru: “Queen of Hearts”) of Issue 16 of the original BtVS run for Dark Horse Comics.

Joss Whedon: “I love the Spike and Dru issue. It’s a really cool expansion of the universe of the series, and also stands alone as a good comic book.”

I’m not aware of Joss Whedon’s ever saying that any of the following were no longer canon: Spike and Dru: : “Paint the Town Red”, Ring of Fire , and Long Night’s Journey .

________________________________

In the comics, Spike continues to speak fondly of Drusilla. While we don’t know what is canon from IDW, it still seems possible that the Spike/Dru stuff from IDW’s Spike miniseries is canon.

MikeB
22-08-17, 08:23 PM
Spike probably didn't interact with 'sane Drusilla' of AtS s9 because it probably was always planned that Buffy/Spike was happening in Season 10 and the Spike/'sane' Dru interactions would make Buffy/Spike in Season 10 less realistic.

Stoney
22-08-17, 11:43 PM
I doubt that very much, Spike rejected being with Dru for Buffy way back in Crush. Since becoming souled he's even closer to Buffy and has stayed in love with her. The development of Spike and Buffy's relationship from the show to the current season is very coherent. Dru was sane but still unsouled in S9, and we're yet to see Spike/Dru meet in canon since he gained his soul. I'd expect he'd still care about Dru, but he moved on a very long time ago. But we already know that we see these two relationships very differently.

GoSpuffy
08-01-18, 04:36 AM
My view is that Spike and Dru loved each other more than your average vampire for most of their relationship but angelus was out of the picture. Dru had serious daddy issues. As much as she loved Spike angelus touched a part of her no one else could. For me it's important to keep in mind vampires are soulless and have different values than humans. Dru sleeping around on Spike is not the same as Buffy sleeping around on Riley. They don't have souls or a moral compass to say it is wrong. Spike's just a different kettle of fish. He's not a complete anomaly, James and Lizabeth also managed to love deeper than your average vampire. So Spike loved Dru deeply, Dru loved him back A lot but not enough to forget about angelus and when Dru broke up with him Spike transferred all of his love to Buffy. I'm sure he still cares for Dru but he would never leave Buffy for her.

MikeB
07-02-18, 02:37 PM
Stoney

* If the IDW Spike miniseries is canon, we have seen Spike/Dru "in canon since he gained his soul". Even beyond that, we saw "Selfless" (B 7.05), "Lies My Parents Told Me" (B 7.17), and "Destiny" (A 5.08). And that post-BtVS 8.39 comic Jane Espenson did. Spike at least still loves Dru.


* Spike in "Crush" (B 5.14) almost certainly had sex with Dru. Spike is horrified by Drusilla's killing and feeding.


* Spike's was away from Buffy for years after "Chosen" (B 7.22). He leaves Buffy in BtVS 9.10 because of what he feels are the limits of their relationship.



GoSpuffy

* It is canon that Drusilla loves Spike more than she loves Angel. It is canon that she'd let Angel die before she'd let Spike die.


* Post-leaving the Boxer Rebellion (1900 C.E.), there isn't much indication that Dru thought much-or at all-of Angel until she sees Angel again in "Lie to Me" (B 2.07) (1998 C.E.)


when Dru broke up with him Spike transferred all of his love to Buffy. That is directly opposed to canon. Spike goes back to Drusilla after "Lovers Walk" (B 3.08)-after breaking Buffy and Angel up-and Spike doesn't own to being in love with Buffy until the end of "Out of My Mind" (B 5.04) after Spike failed to kill Buffy. In "Crush" (B 5.14), Spike almost certainly has sex with Dru, and he goes to dancing with Dru.

flow
07-02-18, 05:06 PM
Spike in "Crush" (B 5.14) almost certainly had sex with Dru.


What ? How ? What ?

flow

GoSpuffy
07-02-18, 10:14 PM
What ? How ? What ?

flow

Hahaha I see what you did there

MikeB
14-05-18, 02:34 PM
Responding 'early' because given some avatars, there seems to be more Spike/Dru fans on the Board now.


Unless you wants to argue Drusilla in "Crush" (B 5.14) was still too injured to have sex, I don't see how you can reasonably argue that Spike/Drusilla didn't have sex in "Crush" (B 5.14).

Somehow Spike literally tosses Harmony aside, goes to Drusilla and makes out with her, later changes back into his "Spike clothes", and in the ensuing time didn't have sex with Dru?