Buffy and Angel Questions [Archive] - Page 3

kassyopeia

08-08-08, 11:09 PM

Searching for "my soul"/"your soul" yields the following relevant hits, in addition to Nile's example:

"Angel"

ANGEL
The Romani --
(off her look)
-- Gypsies. It was just before
the turn of the century. The
elders conjured the perfect
punishment for me. They restored
my soul.

"Passion"

ANGEL
I never cease to be amazed by how much the
world has changed in just two and a half
centuries. It's a miracle to me. You put the
secret to restoring my soul in here…

"The Harvest"

THE MASTER
My blood is your blood.
My soul is your soul.

(But we should probably ignore that one.)

The main proof that souls are unique surely comes from the Angelus-arc in "Angel", though, no? To get Angel back, they clearly needed one specific soul, namely the one that had been extracted. The entire second half of the arc would be quite meaningless otherwise.

Matt

10-08-08, 11:54 AM

Just a quick question about merchandise, I was just wondering if there was a third Angel: The Casefiles book that covers the 5th season? I have the first two, but I wasn't sure if this had or was ever getting released.

kassyopeia

10-08-08, 01:43 PM

I was just wondering if there was a third Angel: The Casefiles book that covers the 5th season?
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffyverse_guidebooks#.22Casefiles.22) only lists two volumes, and a google for "angel the casefiles volume 3" comes up empty, whereas 1 and 2 give a few hundred results each. I suspect it doesn't exist (yet).

kassyopeia

13-08-08, 12:20 AM

Does anybody recall if we ever learn the name of the Sunnydale motel Faith is staying at? Or, alternatively, if it's the same one that either Ethan is staying at in "A New Man" or Eve in "Showtime"?

Andrew

13-08-08, 09:17 AM

Ethan is supposedly staying at the Sunnydale Motor Inn, but the shot outside his motel is of a place called the Downtowner Apartments. Moreover, this is the exact same shot they used in "Faith, Hope, and Trick" (right down to the car parked in front) — it's the motel that Faith was staying at. It's understandable that they might wish to use the same shot, but they should have had the waitress say that Ethan was staying at the Downtowner Apartments, and they could have at least not shown the car in the last second of the shot.

http://www.buffyguide.com/episodes/newman.shtml

So... yeah.

hiskitty2007

14-08-08, 01:49 AM

1. You sometimes see the mark on Buffy's neck. Infact there is mention of it on her first date with Parker in season 4 (I think epi 2 or 3 of that season) he asks what happened and she says "errant puppy".
2. Angel fed off of Buffy but she did not feed off of him so she did not get turned or even connected to him from the bite. (In the Dracula episode the whole reason Dracula wanted Buffy to feed from him even though he was not yet turning her was to give them the mental connection he needed/wanted with her) There connection was through the soul which was way more powerful that is why she could "feel" whenever he was near after season 3 ended. They were soul mates.
3. Wolfram & Hart brought Darla back to torment Angel so that he would again become Angelus and become and Ally instead of an enemy. Darla became pregnant after seducing him with hopes that he would again become Angelus and she would have her "sweet boy" back.
Hope this answers your Question

Coconut05

15-08-08, 08:22 AM

Does anyone know the song from buffy season 2 episode 9 "what's my line part 1" where buffy is skating on the ice. The piano song is amazing.

carousel_girl8

29-08-08, 10:25 AM

Does anyone know the song from buffy season 2 episode 9 "what's my line part 1" where buffy is skating on the ice. The piano song is amazing.

I can't find what the song is, but I would guess that it was composed by Sean Murray or Shawn K.Clement as they wrote the original music for this episode.

holypotatoes

01-09-08, 06:35 PM

Okay so I know this question isn't actually answered in the show (at least I don't think) but I thought I might as well ask here instead of just starting a whole new thread. :p Do you guys think the guy in Fool For Love that said, "I'd rather have a railroad spike through my head than listen to that awful stuff" actually get a railroad spike driven through his head by Spike? Is that why William took that name? :headscratch:

tangent

01-09-08, 11:00 PM

That's how I took it.

I think it was a nicely ironic bit of backfilling and to me he had to be on the list of William the Bloody's first victims.

vampmogs

02-09-08, 11:09 AM

Agreed. I think that's what was implied in that scene for sure.

missperoxide

02-09-08, 08:14 PM

Yeah, I agree with tangent and vampmogs. The second I heard that "I'd rather have a railroad spike through my head than listen to that awful stuff!" I thought well well, what do you know, poor sod, you'll have your wish granted soon.

Matt

02-09-08, 10:03 PM

Isn't it actually explained in one of the Spike comic books that Cecily was actually Halfek undercover and that William makes a wish, which the guy repeats to Cecily/Halfrek and then they die that way?

I don't know how canonical that is though.

Bloodsucker

29-09-08, 05:21 PM

Please educate someone who did not grow up speaking English (hang on, I did, more or less, since we had English neighbours during 5 years, but I'm still not a native speaker): What exactly is a railroad spike? Is it one of those bolt-like things that keep the railroad tracks together?

assydingo

29-09-08, 06:13 PM

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i138/laidbymeaning/SPIKE.jpg

Yep!

Bloodsucker

29-09-08, 08:01 PM

Thanks for the educational picture. :)
Ok, then I had the correct image in mind.

Nina

06-10-08, 03:47 PM

I've a question;

Did Judy die at the end of 'Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been'?

Bloodsucker

06-10-08, 03:50 PM

I wondered about that too. I thought she did, or else she would have turned up again later on, right?

Nina

06-10-08, 04:36 PM

I was thinking the same, if she was still alive you would think that Angel visits her sometimes. It's not like she has family or friends.

But it's also very tragic that she did spend her whole life waiting for him.

Zosimos

06-10-08, 06:16 PM

I've got a question - did Principal Wood die in 'Chosen'?

Matt

06-10-08, 06:38 PM

I've got a question - did Principal Wood die in 'Chosen'?

No, he came close.

He did practically die and Faith was closing his eyes because she thought he was dead, but then he came to just as she was doing so, it was his "Surprise" to her.

He's been seen again in season 8, #6, No Future For You Part 1.

Bloodsucker

09-10-08, 10:23 AM

Just watched Doublemeat Palace... And where Willow analyses the burger, I wondered if there wouldn't have been a simpler method to figure out if it had human flesh in it: Couldn't they have just given it to Spike to sniffle it?

Nina

09-10-08, 10:40 AM

Maybe they need blood to smell those things?

But he probably can. Good catch.

Sosa lola

12-10-08, 06:12 PM

Does Sunnydale have a supermarket? And if it does, do we know what it's called?

Matt

12-10-08, 06:49 PM

Does Sunnydale have a supermarket? And if it does, do we know what it's called?

We didn't see one officially on the show, but it would've been funny to see Buffy and the gang shopping in there at some point, but it is assumed there is one because of the food Buffy buys in Pangs, that said it could be part of Sunnydale Mall or just a bunch of small stores.

holypotatoes

13-10-08, 12:33 AM

Does Sunnydale have a supermarket? And if it does, do we know what it's called?

Yes they have a supermarket/grocery store! In End Of Days, Andrew comes back from it with bags full of groceries and says, "It was pretty amazing. The whole grocery store was just abandoned, food lying around everywhere." So that makes me assume there is one but I don't think we every find out what it's called. :o

Bloodsucker

20-10-08, 09:49 AM

Maybe I wasn't paying attention closely enough, but... among the Potentials is a dark-haired girl called Chloë. We first see her sitting on a sofa with Eve (or rather, the First's impersonation of Eve) and Vi (Buffy mixes them up, and Chloë says, "I'm Chloë, she's Eve").
Later on Vi is still there, Eve is find out to be dead... but what becomes of Chloë? She just disappears from one episode to the next.

Rowan Hawthorn

20-10-08, 12:54 PM

Re-watch the episode "Get It Done". Or...

Chloe hangs herself after the First spends all night "talking" to her. I've often wondered just who it appeared as to her, and what it said...

Bloodsucker

20-10-08, 04:17 PM

Thanks, Rowan. I watched it just now. (Was a bit hasty with asking, clearly. :))
Still, you don't see her between the sofa appearance and Get It Done, it seems, or did I just fail to spot her?

Rowan Hawthorn

20-10-08, 04:53 PM

Not sure about that (and not where I can check right now,) but I know that a couple of the Potentials had to be shot around for scenes in some episodes, because they had other commitments at the time. So she may well have been absent in between those two.

KingofCretins

20-10-08, 05:08 PM

I've always been inclined to think that the First went to Chloe as Buffy. The point being for Chloe to think it's really her (nobody knew it could do that at this point unless Spike told them, which there's no indication he did), and basically be very fatalistic about their chances, and maybe even personally disappointed in Chloe. Telling her that Kennedy was right, she's not up to it, etc. All very sweetly. Think "Buffy's dad from 'Nightmares'".

Rowan Hawthorn

21-10-08, 02:26 AM

Yeah, that would probably do it.

Bloodsucker

21-10-08, 09:29 AM

Yep, it clearly elaborated on Kennedy humiliating her and calling her a maggot - after all, it says so itself when appearing in Chloë's shape. That it chose Buffy is very plausible, but maybe also someone from Chloë's past - one of her parents expressing their disappointment maybe, or an old friend.

Bloodsucker

22-10-08, 09:27 AM

vampmogs

22-10-08, 09:38 AM

And another thing: Does anyone know why Spike never returns to his crypt in Season Seven?
Clem mentions the TV at one point, so we can assume he still lives there (since he said in Season Six that he likes keeping Spike's crypt occupied because Spike has a TV and he doesn't), but the arrangement was that he lives there just until Spike's return, wasn't it?

Well Spike had no idea what having the soul would actually mean, he hadn't considered how much it'd actually change him and as we saw he was driven insane, most likely out of a sense of guilt but also through the First's manipulation. The First manipulated him into moping down in the school basement where it was closest to the Hellmouth and then Buffy made Spike live with them to watch him. So there was never really an opportunity to return to his crypt.

missperoxide

22-10-08, 09:54 AM

Yes, I agree with vampmogs, that was most likely the case. And probably Clem never left the crypt and continue living there after Spike came back. Because in Potential Clem says to Buffy that he saw "this great show on the History Channel". Probably watched it right there.

Btw had I written the script for Touched, Buffy wouldn't have broken in at some random man's home and driven him out of his house (what was with that anyway? couldn't she just break into an empty house?) but instead would have her gone to Spike's crypt. After all we do know she found it "comfy". Just would have been nice touch, you know, and they were playing for the Spuffy in S7 anyway so it wouldn't have been some huuuge statement.

vampmogs

22-10-08, 09:58 AM

Btw had I written the script for Touched, Buffy wouldn't have broken in at some random man's home and driven him out of his house (what was with that anyway? couldn't she just break into an empty house?)

She did say she thought the place was empty, but really she did him a favour by kicking him out. It looked pretty bad on the surface but she told him to hightail it out of town, which made sense given the First taking control over it, and in hindsight probably saved his life, given the collapse of the town an' all.

Nina

22-10-08, 12:10 PM

It wasn't a favor, Sunnydale was never safe at night. If she would've kicked him out on a bright day ... maybe. But right now it was really bad and we never knew why Spike could walk into it. It's possible that he can walk into the house because the man left, but it's also possible that the man died.

Also, he probably wanted to pack some underwear, a toothbrush and some personal stuff before he left.

Rowan Hawthorn

22-10-08, 01:37 PM

Buffy didn't "kick him out". If you notice, she was so depressed and concentrating on her own problems that she really wasn't even aware that he'd left (her question "Got any Tab?" is after he'd gone.) Now, clearly, she spooked him into deserting the place, and just as clearly wasn't in any mood to leave herself, but her line suggesting he should leave was just that; good advice, actually, under the circumstances.

Bloodsucker

23-10-08, 09:21 AM

I agree with Rowan - very impolite, but it is still safer for the man to leave even if it's night than to stay when the Hellmouth can blow any time, in my opinion.
Say, was that by any chance the same guy who chases Buffy away with a rifle in Bargaining Part 2?

vampmogs

23-10-08, 10:04 AM

It wasn't a favor, Sunnydale was never save at night.

But as we see, everyone else was packing up and leaving because things were getting so bad in the two. Which brings me to our next point...

If she would've kicked him out on a bright day ... maybe. But right now it was really bad and we never knew why Spike could walk into it. It's possible that he can walk into the house because the man left, but it's also possible that the man died.

Spike states he could walk into the house uninvited because "the town really is there's now." According to Spike he could now enter a person's home because the First controlled the town. Which makes what Buffy did, more or less a positive thing.

And nope Bloodsucker, the man who chases Buffy away with a rifle in season six is an elderly white male, so very different from the middle aged African American man who Buffy talks to in this episode :roll:

missperoxide

23-10-08, 10:12 AM

She did say she thought the place was empty, but really she did him a favour by kicking him out. It looked pretty bad on the surface but she told him to hightail it out of town, which made sense given the First taking control over it, and in hindsight probably saved his life, given the collapse of the town an' all.
I meant I wonder why the writers created such a scene. It did show Buffy in pretty bad light. Tossing a man out like that. But maybe it was supposed to be so - show that she's absolutely apathetic and then Spike comes along with the speech.

It wasn't a favor, Sunnydale was never save at night. If she would've kicked him out on a bright day ... maybe. But right now it was really bad and we never knew why Spike could walk into it. It's possible that he can walk into the house because the man left, but it's also possible that the man died.
Also, he probably wanted to pack some underwear, a toothbrush and some personal stuff before he left.
Totally agree with you. And it's very observant of you - it's really very possible that the man could have died out there and that was the reason Spike could enter the house. Plus, really, it's so very obvious Buffy doesn't want to do a favour to the man, she just wants him to get out.

Buffy didn't "kick him out". If you notice, she was so depressed and concentrating on her own problems that she really wasn't even aware that he'd left (her question "Got any Tab?" is after he'd gone.) Now, clearly, she spooked him into deserting the place, and just as clearly wasn't in any mood to leave herself, but her line suggesting he should leave was just that; good advice, actually, under the circumstances.
I never saw this "Got any Tab?" as that she wasn't aware that the man had left. I think she knew very well she had spooked the man away and now she just made a (somewhat morbid and very disinterested) "joke".
And I think especially under the circumstances leaving your house in the middle of the night with no personal belongings, food etc, was really bad advice. I don't say Buffy wanted something to happen to the man, she just totally didn't care. She just wanted an empty place where she could, you know, mope until Spike comes along and starts speechifying.

Rowan Hawthorn

23-10-08, 12:48 PM

Plus, really, it's so very obvious Buffy doesn't want to do a favour to the man, she just wants him to get out.
I don't see where that was obvious at all - the only thing that's obvious to me is that Buffy is totally exhausted and beyond caring very much about anything.

I never saw this "Got any Tab?" as that she wasn't aware that the man had left. I think she knew very well she had spooked the man away and now she just made a (somewhat morbid and very disinterested) "joke".
Really? Pretty poor excuse for a joke, then. You should probably re-watch the scene: She's still talking to him as she goes to the kitchen even though he's already left (her line "It's not your town anymore" is delivered while she's walking, and he's already out the door,) and, when she opens the refrigerator door, she turns around, looks back toward the living room, and raises her voice to ask the question. If that was meant to be Buffy making a joke, it didn't deliver, and I can't seriously think that anyone involved in the show would think that it would.

And I think especially under the circumstances leaving your house in the middle of the night with no personal belongings, food etc, was really bad advice.
And if that was what she'd told him to do, you might have a point. But all she said was, "You really should leave." As in, just like everybody else in Sunnydale was doing. She didn't say, "Get out now, do not pass GO, do not collect your underwear, just getcher ass out."

I don't say Buffy wanted something to happen to the man, she just totally didn't care. She just wanted an empty place where she could, you know, mope until Spike comes along and starts speechifying.
And if she'd known that Spike was gonna come along and actually find her to start speechifying in the next little while, that might have a slim chance. But, since she a) had no way of knowing when he'd get back, b) didn't answer the door when he came knocking, and c) asked him to leave so she could get some sleep, Spike doesn't even factor. At this point, she totally doesn't care; she's been without sleep so long she's barely functioning anyway, and after the blowup at her house she's beyond the breaking point.

Over the seven seasons, Buffy did some things that she could rightly take the blame for, but she really doesn't do anything wrong here other than failing to simply turn around and leave when the guy points a shotgun in her face. But people grab onto this scene like a drowning man grabs a life preserver in an effort to paint Buffy in the worst possible light, and I confess I don't get it.

vampmogs

23-10-08, 01:09 PM

Over the seven seasons, Buffy did some things that she could rightly take the blame for, but she really doesn't do anything wrong here other than failing to simply turn around and leave when the guy points a shotgun in her face. But people grab onto this scene like a drowning man grabs a life preserver in an effort to paint Buffy in the worst possible light, and I confess I don't get it.

I can understand why people are less than thrilled with Buffy, given how she's portrayed here. She does, literally, walk into a man's house and kick him out of it, "you can't kick me out of my own house!"

On the other hand, in my opinion it's pretty obvious that her comment "you really should leave" is because she believes it's for his own good. In no way am I saying Buffy was 100% invested in helping this guy out, she wasn't greatly invested in anything during this particular scene, but she did it for his own good. Any other interpretation, especially one that makes it out as if Buffy was threatening the guy, is one radical interpretation of the text, in my opinion at least.

Showing Buffy walking down the street, watching people hurriedly pack up their gear, and having Spike comment on how the town is the First's territory now, to me, makes it clear when Buffy says the man should leave, she's saying it for his own good. It's just not depicted very heroically is' all.

Rowan Hawthorn

23-10-08, 04:23 PM

I can understand why people are less than thrilled with Buffy, given how she's portrayed here. She does, literally, walk into a man's house and kick him out of it, "you can't kick me out of my own house!"
Except that she didn't. I'm sorry, but she in no way made him leave. Yeah, if she had actually forced him out, I'd completely agree that it was a Bad Thing, but the fact is, she didn't do that.

I don't know about you guys, but it would take a helluva lot more than just a suggestion from somebody I didn't even know for me to abandon my home and everything I owned - they'd have to actually put me out. Buffy didn't even make any threatening moves after she disarmed him (and, as close as she was when he was pointing the shotgun at her, it's not as difficult to disarm someone like that as you might think. Especially if you don't look like you're capable of any such and the shooter doesn't have his finger on the trigger...)

prayer

30-10-08, 11:14 AM

In wich episode can you see Angel getting sired and reborn?

Nina

30-10-08, 11:21 AM

The Prodigal in Ats season 1 is the best episode to watch if you want to see Liam, his death and reborn. But also Becoming part 1 has a flashback with Darla biting Liam.

prayer

30-10-08, 12:28 PM

Ahh I was looking in the wrong season. Thank you :)

Sosa lola

06-11-08, 03:48 PM

Did Spike see or know about the Hyperion (Angel's hotel) before After the Fall?

Nina

06-11-08, 03:55 PM

As far as I know, he never walked into the Hyperion before ATF. Of course there is a big chance that he knew about the Hyperion, Fred probably talked about it.

And Angel says in NFA;
The alley just north of the Hyperion. Everyone who makes it meets there.

note:
Some people think that they opened the rift to Illyria's temple in the Hyperion (Shells). Spike was there. But I'm not sure if it really was the Hyperion.

Matt

07-11-08, 08:11 AM

note:
Some people think that they opened the rift to Illyria's temple in the Hyperion (Shells). Spike was there. But I'm not sure if it really was the Hyperion.

I don't think it was supposed to be the Hyperion, but I'm pretty certain it was the same set, if you look at the shape of the room they are in and then the Hyperion, it's practically identical with a paint job.

Nina

07-11-08, 02:43 PM

^ That was also my idea, but I wasn't sure.

I've got a question as well;

2 men walk into a bar. The first man orders a scotch and soda. The second man remembers something he'd forgotten, and it doubles him over with pain. He falls to the floor shaking.... and then through the floor and into the Earth. He looks back up at the first man, but he doesn't call out to him. They're not that close.

Can somebody explain the 'joke' Wesley told?

Matt

07-11-08, 04:42 PM

If this was after Origin I would've said I guess it was about Wesley remembering everything that Angel had removed about Connor and the distance between them in season 3 and 4, but considering it's not I'd say it might be about Wesley and Gunn, I'm not really sure.

Nina

07-11-08, 05:14 PM

Interesting, I never thought about that. I was always thinking that he was talking about himself. That he was both men.

Matt

09-11-08, 07:45 PM

Interesting, I never thought about that. I was always thinking that he was talking about himself. That he was both men.

Okay, that actually makes a whole lot more sense than what I said, especially the changes we saw between Wesley from season 3 of Buffy and season 5 of Angel, it certainly fits the joke's criteria because if it were a real life situation Buffy!Wesley wouldn't recognise S5!Wesley, so I like your theory more.

The upcoming Angel comic miniseries - Smile Time - is it basically the episode, but in comic book form?

Nina

09-11-08, 07:49 PM

I believe so, just like some of the BtVS novels. Same story, other medium.

sueworld

09-11-08, 07:49 PM

I believe so, but with some extra scenes.

kana

09-11-08, 08:38 PM

^ That was also my idea, but I wasn't sure.

I've got a question as well;

Can somebody explain the 'joke' Wesley told?

I wrote this on another forum:

"I thought I was in isolation."

This is how Wesley feels. It goes back to existential angst.

"Whose fault is that?"

This actually links in with what Nata was saying about Angel in the Angel Vs Angelus thread. Wesley is partly feeling lonely because he's cutting himself off. Angel learnt that no matter how bad you feel, it's important to reconnect. He says this in Origin I think so more on that later.

"Tell me a joke."

I like this line because it ties in with Fred liking a certain type of funny. Wesley is actually very witty but it's controlled subtle. The joke Wes tells doesn't strike us as inherently funny but the asurdity of dreams replacing reality is part of what we are getting at.

"2 men walk into a bar."

Wesley is both of these men. We talked about Angel and Angelus before but this ties in with a man who is forced into two personas because of pain he has experienced.

"The first man orders a scotch and soda.The second man remembers something he'd forgotten, and it doubles him over with pain."

Lorne mentioned these two men in Time Bomb. One is the funny 'drunk' and the other is the almost crippled man broken over the memory of Fred.

"He falls to the floor shaking.... and then through the floor and into the Earth"

Is this indicating how far Wes is falling?

"He looks back up at the first man, but he doesn't call out to him.(looks
down at Fred) They're not that close"

Wesley feeling so effected that he has fragmented his persona. The other man could also represent his ideal self and how far away it is. Does Wes not believe there is any hope of striving for it?

"Yeah. You always know where you are."

Both personally for Wes and thematically this is an ironic statement. Wes is feeling lost yet he is man who has alway been about self control and knowledge but no matter how many books he reads, this kind of knowledge wont save him.

He wakes and all he finds is Illyria no Fred. Both Illyria and Wes are still 'clinging to what is lost' both clinging to the memory of what is, associated in their isolation.

Nina

09-11-08, 08:47 PM

Thank you Kana, that was really interesting. And I think that you're right .... that's what he meant.

Bloodsucker

10-11-08, 03:11 PM

And nope Bloodsucker, the man who chases Buffy away with a rifle in season six is an elderly white male, so very different from the middle aged African American man who Buffy talks to in this episode :roll:

Thanks. I so totally didn't remember. :roll:

watcher1006

10-11-08, 08:14 PM

Nina

10-11-08, 11:09 PM

I'm not sure, but in my head both men were human. I'm not sure if I made that up or if it's canon.

Amuk

10-11-08, 11:34 PM

Okay, let me post a question. What is Rack? A scumbucket magic peddler no doubt, but what kind of creature is he? I always thought he was a human being with considerable magical powers, a warlock, but a human being nevertheless. In which case it would bring to two the toll of humans killed by Willow in her rampage at the end of Season 6 of Buffy.

Nothing in the show suggests he is anything other than a human warlock (presumably an evil one).

For that matter, what is Hainsley in Angel S5 "Just Rewards"? I think he's referred to as a sorcerer and a necromancer, but I never figured out if he was human or not. He continually calls Angel "vampire" which seems to imply that he's not a vampire himself. But what is he?

Hainsley was a necromancer. His power over the dead (including their own vampselves) was the central issue that led Angel and Spike to hatch the plot to trick him into letting Spike enter his body. Again, there's nothing to suggest he wasn't human.

Bloodsucker

24-11-08, 10:36 AM

Something that recently occurred to me: When both Angel and Spike drive to Death Valey in "Destiny", Angel calls Spike on the cell phone... but how come Spike has one so suddenly? Until the morning of that day he's been a ghost, and I'm sure nobody had given him one before he took Angel's car and headed off to find the cup. Or does it belong to Angel and always is in that car? It would explain how Spike comes by a phone so suddenly, but it would not be very practical for Angel to have "car phones" top add to his usual one...

Nina

24-11-08, 11:27 AM

Maybe Spike stole one of Angel's phones? And Angel already figured out which one?

Bloodsucker

24-11-08, 11:43 AM

So poor Angel the tech illiterate vampire has to deal with having two cell phones AND remember the numbers? :)
It would make sense for Spike to have a phone that way - only, why would he steal one? Not in order for Angel to call him, for sure. :)

Nina

24-11-08, 12:22 PM

Maybe it was Angel's favourite cellphone? :D

I really don't know.

Bloodsucker

25-11-08, 10:02 AM

I sort of tend towards the answer "the phone was a simple necessity for storytelling". :)

But the Viper AND the favourite phone, that's nasty. :eviltail:

missperoxide

25-11-08, 06:50 PM

Maybe it was just Angel's cellphone which he had forgotten in the car? And Angel knew he had left the phone in the Viper and called hoping that maybe Spike would answer the phone - which he did.

Bloodsucker

26-11-08, 10:43 AM

Good answer. And Angel borrowed one from someone else. If we fanwank him into being a bit forgetful there, that would make perfect sense. :)

sherrilina

02-12-08, 10:06 PM

Okay, I saw this theory mentioned here once before, and now I saw it just now in the Wikipedia entry on Jasmine:

In season two, Angel attempts to give Darla, who is dying at the time, a second chance at life by passing a series of trials. However, unbeknownst to Angel, Darla can't use the new second chance because she is already on her second life, and Jasmine claims that she was able to use the life that Angel earned to create Connor after he had sex with Darla
But I don't *ever* remember Jasmine saying ANY such thing, and I've rewatched season 4 of Angel numerous times. Did I miss something or does anyone else not recall her ever stating this either?

Matt

02-12-08, 10:26 PM

But I don't *ever* remember Jasmine saying ANY such thing, and I've rewatched season 4 of Angel numerous times. Did I miss something or does anyone else not recall her ever stating this either?

This is exactly what Jasmine says when she explains how she came to be:

JASMINE
But you didn't. It was we who failed you. (stands) We became little more than observers. I could no longer bear to just watch all the suffering. I had to find a way back. But, first I needed a miracle. And so I arranged one. (touches Connor's face) Through you, Angel, through Darla. That is where my parentage began. Two vampires—creatures one human corrupted by darkness. And you with a soul—a miracle already.

ANGEL
But how?

JASMINE
Through Lorne.

LORNE
Huh?

JASMINE
The day Lorne sent Angel and human Darla into the trials to earn a new chance at life.

It somewhat implies that that is how Connor was created, but it also implies that the life Angel earned impregnated Darla, even though for the recap each episode it showed the scenes where they slept together, although I suppose it was easier to use that than portay how Angel earned that life through the Trials.

Bloodsucker

03-12-08, 10:18 AM

I think Angel just earned a potential life through the trials and had to sleep with Darla in order for it to become "real".

Nina

10-12-08, 12:01 PM

Did they ever explain from who those cyborgs in 'Lineage' were? They wanted control over Angel and knew a lot about Wesley's life, it was very well planned but I can't remember from who they came.

stormwreath

10-12-08, 03:04 PM

Did they ever explain from who those cyborgs in 'Lineage' were? They wanted control over Angel and knew a lot about Wesley's life, it was very well planned but I can't remember from who they came.No, it's never been explained. Not in AtF or S8 either so far.

They claimed to be from the re-formed Watchers' Council - and definitely had detailed inside knowledge of its operations, to be able to recreate Roger W-P so well as to fool his own son. Personally, I blame Twilight. :)

Bloody Billy

11-12-08, 09:22 AM

No, it's never been explained. Not in AtF or S8 either so far.

They claimed to be from the re-formed Watchers' Council - and definitely had detailed inside knowledge of its operations, to be able to recreate Roger W-P so well as to fool his own son. Personally, I blame Twilight. :)

both may be right. I would assume that the watchers that are left(other then Giles and Wes) have a big grudge against Buffy and crew. I would not be surprised if they were not working with Twilight.

Bloodsucker

11-12-08, 09:24 AM

Billy, you mean the Council really sent them to harm Angel, Wesley and the rest of theteam because they believed Angel was working for the "bad guys" now? Well, theoretically possible, but wouldn't Wesley's father have come himself then?

Bloody Billy

11-12-08, 06:02 PM

If he was involved. It may have been just some of the scummier guys. They would have had access to that information. Maybe some of Wes's old classmates.

I just see the possibility that they think the Watchers council lost control of a war they ran. And decided screw the slayers.

And were collecting warriors. The cyborgs, and angel namely. Then Twilight comes along with a like minded hatred of the slayer brigade and that seems a perfect alliance.

just random thoughts.

Nina

11-12-08, 06:12 PM

Angel: "You know, if they had access to the Watchers Council's old files, they'd have your background information, character assessments... "

Everybody could've got those. Of course it could be some watchers but we don't know it sounded like many interested people kind of stole whatever they wanted;

Wesley: And does the Watcher's Council know you stole the only known copy of the codex when you left?

Sirk: There is no council.

Sirk was a watcher but there is a big chance that anybody who wanted to get those files, could get them. (Hence the 'There is no counsil')

I think that we've to wait if the writers decide to come back on this issue and reveal the person who did it. It could be one of the first plans made by Twilight.

molly13

12-12-08, 03:42 AM

Rowan Hawthorn

12-12-08, 04:15 AM

Joyce had the master bedroom, which is where Willow and Tara were staying when Tara was killed. Buffy moved into that room sometime during the summer (no real explanation, but it's the biggest of the three bedrooms,) and Willow moves into Buffy's old room after she comes back from England.

Andrew

12-12-08, 11:34 AM

Buffy probably realised how painful it'd be for Willow to sleep in the very same room that Tara died in and so took the room to prevent it from happening. There's also the reasoning that she was the head of the house now and therefore took the room of the parent. She couldn't do it in s6 because W/T had already claimed it and she wasn't really all about taking responsibility that season. From a writer's POV, I guess it was to show how Buffy's really a grownup now.

Awww... all this talking about the Summers house makes me miss it...

Amuk

12-12-08, 02:35 PM

Does anyone know why Buffy takes Joyce's room in season seven even before the potentials come to her house? I just thought that was stange. Like where does Willow stay when she arrives back from England?

Buffy took Joyce's room while Willow was in England. Stands to reason. Willow & Tara moved into it when Buffy was dead, but Tara's gone and Willow's out of the country indefinitely. Plus, it is her house.

After willow returns to Sunnydale, they actually show Willow moving into Buffy's old room in the opening scene of "Selfless".

molly13

13-12-08, 04:32 AM

Oh yeah, I remember that scene now, Thanks. I guess it seems just weird to me, Willow taking Buffy's room, cause...its Buffy's. But it all makes sense logically. Thanks to everyone that replied.

Nina

14-12-08, 11:58 AM

Sosa lola

14-12-08, 01:00 PM

Do we know how old Gunn is? In Warzone it sounded like Cordelia was older than Gunn and his team (she was talking about kids and wasn't Angel guessing the average age of the gang on 16?). But I always had the feeling that Gunn was a bit older than the scoobies and certainly not 16 in Ats season 1.

edit:
Wikipedia says that he is born in 1978, which sounds right to me. But I can't remember when they showed or told us his age.

I think there was an episode in S4 where Gunn tells Fred that he had sold his soul for a car at 17. Seven years later it came to haunt him, so he was probably 24 in S4. I'm not so sure though, if the episode is in S4 or S3.

But I agree that Gunn is older than the Scoobies. Cordelia calling him and his team kids doesn't mean they're younger than her. I used to call kids my age, younger and slightly older kids when I was in my late teens.

Nina

14-12-08, 01:16 PM

I think there was an episode in S4 where Gunn tells Fred that he had sold his soul for a car at 17. Seven years later it came to haunt him, so he was probably 24 in S4. I'm not so sure though, if the episode is in S4 or S3.

But I agree that Gunn is older than the Scoobies. Cordelia calling him and his team kids doesn't mean they're younger than her. I used to call kids my age, younger and slightly older kids when I was in my late teens.

Thanks :hug:, that must have been 'Double or Nothing', which was in season 3 and a couple of days after Connor's kidnap. If that was when he was 24, he is indeed two years older than the Scoobies.

Sosa lola

14-12-08, 04:30 PM

Thanks :hug:, that must have been 'Double or Nothing', which was in season 3 and a couple of days after Connor's kidnap. If that was when he was 24, he is indeed two years older than the Scoobies.

I'm sure Gunn was 17 when he had traded his soul for his truck, but I'm not sure how many years had passed since the episode. I guess they were seven or six years, but what I do remember is me going, "Ah, so Gunn is older than Cordelia."

I have a question: How many years did Angel spend in hell?

Amuk

14-12-08, 06:48 PM

I have a question: How many years did Angel spend in hell?

100 years (this was the amount of time they speculated he'd been there when he came back; he confirms it in "Deep Down": " I got stuck in a hell dimension by my girlfriend one time for a hundred years, so three months under the ocean actually gave me perspective.").

Sosa lola

14-12-08, 08:25 PM

100 years (this was the amount of time they speculated he'd been there when he came back; he confirms it in "Deep Down": " I got stuck in a hell dimension by my girlfriend one time for a hundred years, so three months under the ocean actually gave me perspective.").

Thank you :hug:

Matt

14-12-08, 09:18 PM

Well, it probably wasn't exactly 100 years, that's pretty round, but it was probably easier to say that than an exact amount of years, maybe it was the amount of time Angel thought had passed.

Emmie

14-12-08, 10:37 PM

Cabri on Whedonesque wrote:

I remember listening to the writer commentaries in the first four or five Buffy seasons, and whenever an episode writer mentioned that Joss wrote a particular scene, that scene was certain to have that mix in tone.

So my question is this - can anyone name the scenes written/re-written by Joss where he wasn't given a writer's credit for the episode?

One example I know is the end scene of Beneath You where Spike reveals to Buffy that he has a soul.

sueworld

14-12-08, 10:42 PM

Spikes speech in Pangs "I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it" was all written by Joss If thats what you mean.

Emmie

14-12-08, 10:53 PM

Yes, thanks Sue! That's exactly what I was wondering.

Maybe this isn't the best format for me to ask this, but I was hoping to find out a few more examples. :)

sueworld

14-12-08, 11:22 PM

Well theres also the conversation between Buffy and Spike in 'Hells bell's. Originally the pair of them were quite unpleasant towards each other, but Joss didn't like that for some reason, and re wrote it with a more sympathetic tone.

stormwreath

15-12-08, 03:27 AM

Going by Doug Petrie's commentary on 'Bad Girls', which he wrote, Joss had the following involvement:

He added the bit where Mr Trick and Alan Finch reveal which cartoons they like to read.
He changed one of the universities Willow got into to 'Wesleyan'.
Regarding Wesley, he added the stage direction "He thinks he's Sean Connery but in fact he's George Lazenby."
He added the scene where both Wesley and Giles start polishing their glasses, and Giles notices and gets annoyed.
He wrote the small scene where Wesley reads Giles' Watcher Diary on his first impressions of Buffy.

Nina

15-12-08, 06:28 AM

I recently heard from Enisy that Joss wrote the speech in Epiphany. And David Fury said in the 'You're Welcome' commentary that Joss wrote the final scene between Cordelia and Angel. The scene between Lilah and Cordelia in 'Billy' is also written by Joss.

Bloodsucker

15-12-08, 09:24 AM

stormwreath

15-12-08, 12:17 PM

Did Joss, as the creator of it all, give the writers a general frame of what was to happen in each episode, or did they come up with things of their own (within a vague frame of an episode story arc) and he just commented on it?As I understand it, this is how it worked:

Joss would think up the overall season arc. At this early stage it would be more in terms of emotional development for each character than specific plot details, although Joss would often have a few specific scenes in mind that he wanted to lead up to.

He would get together with the writing team and brainstorm ideas for the season, and make sure they understood the general direction he wanted to move in.

Individual writers would then pitch ideas to him. They'd go into his office one by one and go through maybe half a dozen ideas for episodes. He and perhaps one or two of the other senior people (David Greenwalt, Marti Noxon, etc) would listen and decide which ones to use. Sometimes the writer would simply be told "great idea, do that", other times the idea would be adapted, chopped around or combined with others. For example, Jane Espenson said that 'Earshot' came from a idea she had of Buffy using telepathy to cheat in a test; the rest of the episode's plot came from talking it through with Joss.

Sometimes, instead of the writers thinking up the ideas themselves, Joss would come to them and ask them to write an episode based around a concept of his own. Again according to Jane, these were usually the major arc episodes, and they were given to the more senior writers. Therefore, ironically, when you first joined Mutant Enemy as a writer you would be writing episodes based on your own ideas, and as you became more experienced you'd be dealing with other people's ideas instead...

Gradually the shape of the season would emerge as ideas for each episode were developed - although at this stage the episode order could still be moved around or new episodes inserted.

For each individual episode, the next step would be to "break" the episode. That meant that the writer got together with the rest of the writing team plus Joss or Marti and explained their idea, using a whiteboard. There'd be a group discussion and brainstorming session, at the end of which the basic structure of the episode would be agreed in terms of act breaks. For example, again using one of Jane Espenson's episodes: in 'A New Man' Act One ends with the reveal of Ethan, Act Two ends with Giles turning into a demon, and Act Three ends with Buffy declaring she's going to kill the demon.This was all agreed before a word of dialogue was written.

At this point the writer would go away and start writing the episode. They'd start with an outline, which they'd give to Joss for his amendments and comments, then write the actual script. This would usually go through several drafts, after each of which Joss would read it and make comments. Writing an episode would normally take two weeks. If they were short of time they would split writing the dialogue between more than one writer, which is why some episodes have two names on them.